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Why is there such a big lack of xenon?


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Posted by northmonkey
I keep wondering, Why is it that phone manufacturers continue to use LED flashes'? I know they are good for video recording but why not have an LED and a Xenon?

I have just bought myself a Nokia N82 because not only is it still one of the best phones around, It has an amazing camera with a great flash, Probably one of the best if not the best cameraphone evermade!

Thing is why have Nokia continued to put crappy LED flashes' on phones such as Nokia N97, Nokia N86 etc etc? It makes no sense!

A lot of people like me like to and enjoy using their phone to take pictures and if the phone had a decent xenon flash you wouldn't have to carry your digital camera around with you everywhere constantly.

Not many phones have Xenon to my knowledge, Only the Sony Ericsson C905, Satio and the Nokia N82 and Samsung Pixon 12 have Xenon, The C901 is not available here in the UK, I wouldn't class the LG Renoir as having a Xenon flash as the flash on that performs like an LED!

Also i don't see any phones that are coming out soon that have Xenon on either, What's going on?


Posted by Bonovox
Maybe it's more expensive or maybe manufacturers are trying to keep phones small. Am I right or wrong in saying the phone needs to be fairly big to house a Xenon? How big is the c901? That has one.

Posted by northmonkey

On 2010-03-15 23:56:45, Bonovox wrote:
Maybe it's more expensive or maybe manufacturers are trying to keep phones small. Am I right or wrong in saying the phone needs to be fairly big to house a Xenon? How big is the c901? That has one.



Yes it probably is more expensive but there is a lot of people who would pay more for a phone with xenon, I certainly would anyway! Also yes the phone does have to be bigger which is a good point but i'd rather have something a bit bigger like the N82 and have a xenon than have a slim phone with LED.

The C901 isn't that big to be honest, I just don't understand it.

Posted by miguel82
Or maybe because manufactures want to continue to sell digital camaras! If the difference between camaras and phones continue to short... they will sell 0 camaras

Posted by northmonkey

On 2010-03-16 00:09:04, miguel82 wrote:
Or maybe because manufactures want to continue to sell digital camaras! If the difference between camaras and phones continue to short... they will sell 0 camaras


Nokia don't do Digital Camera's though People would still buy Digital Camera's even if all phones had Xenon because phones don't have optical zoom and digital zoom on phones is crap!

Posted by Bonovox
From what i have recently read(I forget where)sales of dedicated digital cameras has actually risen despite the advances in mobile phone cameras. I know why & that is a phone still cannot compare even with a Xenon. I too, do not like phones being too small, like a good woman there is no fun with skinny thin body Optical zoom as previously seen in 3 phones from Sharp,Nokia & Samsung makes the phone way too big.
[ This Message was edited by: Bonovox on 2010-03-15 23:31 ]


Posted by northmonkey

On 2010-03-16 00:26:56, Bonovox wrote:
From what i have recently read(I forget where)sales of dedicated digital cameras has actually risen despite the advances in mobile phone cameras. I know why & that is a phone still cannot compare even with a Xenon. I too, do not like phones being too small, like a good woman there is no fun with skinny thin body Optical zoom as previously seen in 3 phones from Sharp,Nokia & Samsung makes the phone way too big.
[ This Message was edited by: Bonovox on 2010-03-15 23:31 ]



I'm not too worried about optical zoom on a phone, just a xenon for night shots.

Still think the N82 is one of the best phones evermade, Great build quality, Excellent camera, Flash is like a nuke going off! Has all the features you need, Still think it beats that majority of phones that are out today, The camera on it beats every phone around in my opinion.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Ye, N82 has a great camera and amazing flash. Took some pics of a Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG with a DTM body kit with one a few years ago in a dark parking lot,pic is in my Esato gallery,not the best pic out there but its the best performer ive seen in low light. Even exposed that the owner of that Merc had illegaly tempered with his number plates to avoid speeding fines.
[ This Message was edited by: GUCCI.011 on 2010-03-15 23:51 ]


Posted by Bonovox
Which is why i don't understand Nokia not putting a Xenon flash in the n86. Seemed a strange move. The n82 is very good the brightest flash i seen.

Posted by shug
It's because you need an led for video and high resolution video is on the march.

Posted by mriley
But phones can have LED 'flashes' (they aren't really flashes imo) and a xenon flash too.
I think most phones don't have xenon because it adds a lot of weight to the phones and adds cost of production. Led flashes are terrible in comparison.

Posted by Bonovox
I have had a few phones with excellent LED "flashes" like the Samsung Jet & iphone 4 which reached a good distance in darkness like this shot I did with Samsung Jet

Posted by shug
I agree my i8910 has a strong led but I think it´s a matter of space with both an led and a zenon. It makes the camera module both larger and much more complicated. Phones usually start out as several different projects which are then assimilated and if you came to the table with an led zenon hybrid camera module you'd be told to go and lose one of them.

Posted by Bonovox
This was taken with iphone 4 in pitch black though it's noisy it's better than most LED's

Posted by HxH
Though, recently try out Iphone 4 LED it was some surprising result for me too.

At this time, Iphone 4 is now all round powerful device

I would love to get one myself but SATIO especially piece of xenon and another 3Gs won't let me

Posted by Bonovox

On 2010-10-06 19:11:49, mriley wrote:
But phones can have LED 'flashes' (they aren't really flashes imo) and a xenon flash too.
I think most phones don't have xenon because it adds a lot of weight to the phones and adds cost of production. Led flashes are terrible in comparison.



The one advantage of some LED's is they can be used as a video light in recording mode in darkness

Posted by jplacson
And a flashlight

I'm not too fond of using a flash on a camera... Never use the one on my dslr, nor my point and shoot. Makes photos look flat.

I'd rather they increase the sensitivity or maybe give us night shot/ ir instead.

Posted by mriley
But you can't compare LED to xenon, LED is just a light that comes on whilst you take the photo, it doesn't flash at all.

Posted by Bonovox
Oh no of course you can't

Posted by goldenface
I really miss the flash on my C905, it's falling to bits now so I don't take it out much at all but even dual flash is no substitute for Xenon no matter which way you look at it but it's best to have both.

Could the reason for there being no Xenon be the size? The capacitor is the biggest part of the Xenon unit and most high end phones are getting thinner and thinner.

I would definitely buy an Android based 8.0MP shooter with Xenon.

Posted by Bonovox
will eventually release another decent Xenon based phone cam cos of newer phones lie the N8 too

Posted by xnuo
the only use of LEDs for me now is as a backup flashlight. otherwise, xenon will allways be the way to go...

apple still thinks that making minor updates to their phones is the way to do bussines, and it looks to be that way, since people don't complain about their lack of Xenon in 2010...

Posted by alenn
if the phone is too huge and with a xenon flash that will drain the battery instantly(especially for touchscreen phones)

Posted by shaliron
From what I know the main reason is because xenon flashes require (relatively) large capacitors which are extremely difficult to fit in with the trend to make phones slim slim slim. And really that's it. Sucks doesn't it?

Posted by goldenface
I'm thinking of getting another C905 one just for the Xenon and multitude of cam features. LED just doesn't cut it - I can't say I've taken one good indoor pic with my X10 in all the time I've had it.

SE should release another camphone with Xenon. From K800i - to C905, they all were major sellers and it's not as if people are not buying featurephones anymore. Let them bring out a feature phone with 8.0MP and improved optics and I'm sure people will lap it up. Leave out the touch screen (there will always be a market for people requiring a physical keypad), base it on A200, just up the processor and improve the optics.

This craze for thinner and thinner phones won't last for ever - there is only so thin a phone can be they start snapping like twigs.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2011-01-03 12:05 ]


Posted by saravana

On 2010-11-25 16:17:20, goldenface wrote:
I really miss my C905, I'm thinking of getting another one just for the Xenon and multitude of cam features. LED just doesn't cut it - I can't say I've taken one good indoor pic with my X10 in all the time I've had it.

SE should release another camphone with Xenon. From K800i - to C905, they all were major sellers and it's not as if people are not buying featurephones anymore. Let them bring out a feature phone with 8.0MP and improved optics and I'm sure people will lap it up. Leave out the touch screen (there will always be a market for people requiring a physical keypad), base it on A200, just up the processor and improve the optics.

This craze for thinner and thinner phones won't last for ever - there is only so thin a phone can be they start snapping like twigs.



you are right. i am too waiting for a mobile which would be a successor of K850i(bar type) and c905(slider) and the hardware also should be improved for fast processing.
my wish is to get a mobile which is a combo of (C905 + Hazel) in 2011 q1.

right now my k850i serves for all lighting conditions except the processor is slow for today's market. so i need a hazel like mobile with xenon flash. hope will make a note of it.


Posted by shaliron
I've always felt the underrated C901 is the perfect feature phone/camera phone. Wasn't really an SE flagship, and to some it might be considered pretty plain, but it is a solid and well featured phone—and of course a xenon flash! But I suppose a 13mm body is much to fat nowadays!

Posted by mriley
It is good, but not perfect

Posted by shaliron

On 2010-11-26 16:05:40, mriley wrote:
It is good, but not perfect



Touche.

Posted by bl-gr-n
Having an odd problem with the LED-flash on the X10 Mini this vinter.
Using the flash it creates vapour when it's some -15° C outdoor. The first photo gets ruined by vapor and hence blurring or hide what you want to photo, even a second photo some times get ruined too.

Would a Xenon flash also heating up the air like a LED.

At summertime I'm more often carrying a proper camera with me.


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