SE-Portfolio 2010 - Esato archive

Posted by ^^HAMID^^
how we r alive with these

conditions!!

avmax come and say something ...

Posted by Lollylost100
What do you want him to say? Another speculation of a non-existent phone?

Posted by zub
liar liar pants on fire

Posted by ^^HAMID^^
actually heal us

even by false news
i can't understand .... poor avmax had great confidence in his posts

Posted by bambarah
avmax

strike a light man

it is dark in here

Posted by rss_ndrsn
SE CEO must be drunk when he commented about the next devices from SE. The leak we have so far are devices with specs are so 2010. No 12 megapixel camera, neither 16.1 megapixel camera. No dual-core processor, and dedicated gpu.
Anzu was like Motorola Droid X. Hello SE, We do not need a motorola droid X copy-cat. Then, the PSPhone is a nice idea but it is fugly. And the specs, again nothing ground breaking. All of those device are something we have seen before but nothing with mind-blowing specs that will put them ahead of the competition.

Wow...I was not that surprised when Apple finally exceeded SE in the cellphone marketshare. SE devices are just mediocre and lack essential features of today's devices like multi-touch. So I predict, SE will keep losing its market share and make just little profit.

SE should ask this to themselves: Why would people choose Anzu over the dual-processor powered SGS successor and iPhone 5 if the specs that Anzu has is completely similar to Motorola Droid X/Desire HD, with only the FullHD recording as its advantage? Not to mention, the new flagship from HTC and LG.

That's very stupid move SE. I guess some people just do not learn their lessons.

[ This Message was edited by: rss_ndrsn on 2010-11-15 20:39 ]

Posted by Lollylost100
Who said it has 1080p recording?

Mid/low-range Andoird phones is maybe the key to profits?

Posted by rss_ndrsn
^Apple has proven that it is not always diversity in portfolio that makes big profit. Just look at the iPhone 4. It has sold 14 million units since June despite of being the most expensive phone.

Had not SE been doing that before they almost went bankrupt? I do not think that that strategy will work for their Android portfolio. There are so many Android phones right now and most of them look the same. How would SE make people prefer their next generation Android devices if they have specs that you have already seen from the Android phones available today? Plus, you get small profit margin with low/mid end phones. You only get big profit from low/mid- end phones if you sell a lot of them. And how exactly SE would do that with the tough competition nowadays?

[ This Message was edited by: rss_ndrsn on 2010-11-15 21:02 ]

Posted by tangey
shoulda heeded me a couple of weeks ago, when i saw him post the BS of it having 512M DEDICATED graphics ram (I still laugh every time I type it) and called him on it. phones NEVER dedicate ANY RAM to graphics, cpu and gpu are all on one chip, the chip has 1 combined bus, so RAM is always shared for this SOC, its all about size, of the chip and size of the overall board, chip size does not permit multiple buses, board size does not permit multiple ram islands. and thats not even mentioning the 512M figure (as I recall he had another 512M or was it 1G ram for the processor).

There's rumours, and then theres just making up stuff.....you decide.

[ This Message was edited by: tangey on 2010-11-15 21:07 ]

Posted by domipost
I can give you some news if you want to hear it... But first tell me what you want to hear

Well, lets see, maybe 2GHz dual core is nice? Let's call it Grape and give it that 16MP sensor too, that should be nice on te specs list

As for the gaming, it would have full acces to the limited Sony gaming area of the Android Market and I think the price will be around €500.

Voila, there you have your news

Posted by tranced
Another good news would be the year it'd be released

[ This Message was edited by: tranced on 2010-11-15 22:04 ]

Posted by io_bg
Not sooner than Q3/Q4

[ This Message was edited by: io_bg on 2010-11-15 22:10 ]

Posted by tranced
@domipost: back in July badassmam mentioned something about Moto wanting to have a 2ghz mobile phone and as of now we ain't seen it yet. So I guess

won't have them by any time soon.

That codename, is translated to english?

Btw, any other spec such as internal memory, screen size, etc?

[ This Message was edited by: tranced on 2010-11-15 22:16 ]

Posted by domipost
Grape is english, isn't it? Anyway, I wouldn't expect something like that earlier than 2012 for shure

I remember about the Moto phone indeed, I think even mister Jha said something like that and that it would happen this year. Mid 2011 seems more reasonable to me, though

Posted by tranced
What I meant was: that codename was translated to english?

Posted by hellogoodbye
Bring The Light! Avmax!

Posted by se_dude
Why are SE charging 650 euros for Anzu? This is ridiculous.

Posted by tranced
Cheap, isn't it?

Posted by smclion102
Not even SE fans are gona buy X12 if the price is so fu*king high

€650

for an
Old hardware

+ Dont FORGET SONY ERICSSON ALSO DELAYS OS..what if they give 2.1 and wait for 2.3 for another few months..
Old hardware + no MT + if 2.3 is delayed ="EPIC FAIL"

Posted by avmaxfan
Liar ?
Really ?

And because of what ? Just because Eldar said so ?

Hmm I wonder since when people started taking him seriously again. When he tweeted about 12mp SE android a few months back, most just wrote him off as "not credible anymore".
And now everyone's believing him as if he's the SE CEO.

And why all this "insider" info coming out only after Eldar's article ? Hmmm

Wonder where all the insiders were when i first posted the specs 2-3 months back.

Anyways to all who are dissapointed I'm gonna say what I said earlier - Have patience and WAIT for the official announcement. The future is not dark. And yeah, even after all this "insider" info leak lately I stand by what I have been saying.

And yea to the gurus - I hope you know that Android or rather smartphones in General is all about the high end. The flagship Android phones are the ones which sell the most and make money for the companies. Eg Droid, Droid X, Desire, Galaxy S , X10 to name a few.
We have almost NO medium/low range Android "star" seller.
So why would SE focus on mid/low range again?

Go figure

Oh and its sad to see some people think a few "sources" know more than the SE CEO himself.

"Big Surprise" "Cutting Edge device. ahead of competition" Hmmmmm

[ This Message was edited by: avmaxfan on 2010-11-16 04:31 ]

Posted by NoTnERb
I am not for or against avmaxfan but exactly my thoughts.

Hmm I wonder since when people started taking him seriously again. When he tweeted about 12mp SE android a few months back, most just wrote him off as "not credible anymore".
And now everyone's believing him as if he's the SE CEO.

People would laugh off eldar but NOW they take him seriously, riiight. I'm just gonna listen to everybody talk and WAIT FOR THE OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT then we can talk and start bashing if needed.

thanks to avmaxfan though for bringing a little life to this rumors thread, it may be true, it may be a lie but still, thanks avmaxfan. from 1000+ pages from the 2007 rumors thread, to 200 this year, still, i considered the 200 pages worth of rumors to be really fun and I'm looking forward to a bright SE future.

[ This Message was edited by: NoTnERb on 2010-11-16 05:03 ]

Posted by gauravsali
this thread is becoming more like argument thread than rumour one!

Posted by Shino03
I believe in avmax cause if the others are right, I have no other choice but to move to Samsung and I don't want that to happen.

Posted by RandomCarpet
I think it's highly unlikely even for

to release a refresh (not true successor) to its flagship with roughly the same specs more that 12 months after its release.

If X12 was just a refresh ala T68m -> T68i; T300 -> T310; T610 -> T630; W800 -> W810; K800 -> K810; K850 -> C902
It should have already been selling for 2-3 months now. Otherwise this is just a suicide for

.

All refresh phones I mentioned above were released no later than 7 months after the release of the phone they replace

Posted by yuunanase

On 2010-11-16 09:19:45, RandomCarpet wrote:
I think it's highly unlikely even for

.

All refresh phones I mentioned above were released no later than 7 months after the release of the phone they replace

How about X1 -> X2?

Thats 13 months.

Posted by Lollylost100

On 2010-11-16 05:28:46, avmaxfan wrote:
We have almost NO medium/low range Android "star" seller.
So why would SE focus on mid/low range again?

Go figure

Maybe because of what you just said? There is no mid range best seller. Whats the point in going into high range if there isn't a chance of making it to the top?

By mentioning and finding spec I wouldnt call saying all possible configurations and hoping one of them is half correct.

Posted by avmaxfan
In business there is always one thing you need to be sure of and that is "feasibility". Before launching any product you need to find out if it is feasible or not.

And Lollylost, what are you trying to say? That Samsung, HTC, and others who are making great high end phones are incapable at making good mid range Androids ? And that

will work some magic and sell a huge number of low/mid end Android phones when all the other bigger and better at Android companies have not been able to ?

The X10 was fairly successful in the high end, at least a lot more successful than

would have expected even with so many drawbacks. Then why would the

be so stupid and think " Hey! Lets make low/mid Androids, so what if all the others are not making much money in this category, we can work our magic and make billions

" !!!!!!!!!!!!

Android is all about the high end. The mid/low end Android market is limited at best. All the Android phone makers make millions on their high end flagship phones NOT mid end. Sure mid end phones add to profits but they are NOT the actual cash cow.

And "IF" as you are saying, the mid/low end Android market was so huge that SE could make lots of money then why did not the other Android makers follow this strategy ? Moto, HTC, Samsung are definitely much better and experienced "Android" vendors than

.

Are they idiots then to concentrate on high end if the mid/low end market was so lucrative ?

And please. Do not give the example of X1 and X2. We all know about how sad WM 6 was. And it was not as if the X2 was a generation behind its WM6 competitors. And the segment was not even half as competitive as Android is today.

All I'm saying is SE knows that they can survive with good high end phones (not just SE but every single Android maker) and NOT by selling dozens of low/mid Android phones.

Android is a direct competitor to iOS and WP7 and both of these OSes are "premium high end phone OS". And so is Android primarily. Period.

P.S. I am not questioning the credibility of Eldar, or the other "insiders" but just asking you a simple question. Do you think

will make such a stupid decision and dig their own grave after straight 3 quarters of profit and so much cost cutting and efforts ?

[ This Message was edited by: avmaxfan on 2010-11-16 09:52 ]

Posted by rss_ndrsn
@lolli
I could not disagree more. Don't you people get it that there will never be a low-end/mid-end Android top seller because Android is an open source OS. Anyone company could make an Android phone if they wanted to; thus, giving people wide array of phones to choose from. As a result, an even more tougher competition among Android phone makers.
The only way to the top is through making high-end Android phones.

It is not only the competition from other Android phone makers that SE should think about but also from WM7 and iOS devices which are all high-end. WM7 was announced last month along with several devices which are now available and more to come in the coming months. Although the IOS market share has been stagnant, still iPhone 4 must not be counted out. It is the most sought after smartphone of the year and it is still hard to get one today because of limited availablity. Yes, Android OS market share is growing really fast but then again, these two other manufacturers should not be left out.

Beside, top manufacturers are competing to get a big market share in the US (the biggest). Do you think a plethora of low-end/high-end devices from would be the best strategic solution? Nu-uh. Maybe if SE wants to go bankrupt.

[ This Message was edited by: rss_ndrsn on 2010-11-16 09:55 ]

Posted by pauvincent
me too if no cutting edge phone comes out off

any time soon i might buy a iphone 4 but i hope

really has something for us. Like i said before lets wait fotr the OFFICIAL

ANNOUNCEMENT from

then we'll really know for our sake i hope it will be a good one

Posted by Platia1
The X2 was rather outdated compared to other top end smartphones such as the Toshiba TG01 and the HTC HD2, both of which came with cutting-edge Snapdragon processor's when the X2 made do with a processor from the X1, released the year before

Posted by avmaxfan

On 2010-11-16 10:55:44, Platia1 wrote:
The X2 was rather outdated compared to other top end smartphones such as the Toshiba TG01 and the HTC HD2, both of which came with cutting-edge Snapdragon processor's when the X2 made do with a processor from the X1, released the year before

I mentioned earlier. Do not even imagine comparing X1-X2 story with X10-X10 flagship. Android and the Android phone market is way more mature and way larger than WM6. SE had almost given up on WM6 when the X2 was out. That explains the sub par hardware. And the sales from WM phones was very low and below

expectations.

Whereas with Android its completely different. Android is the reason

is back in the game. They simply will not and can not take chances the way they could with WM6

[ This Message was edited by: avmaxfan on 2010-11-16 10:02 ]

Posted by Lollylost100
@avmaxfan @rss_ndrsn

Or they could make high-ends with MSM7230, although it won't be so capable next year

.

There are many people who buy mid-range phones for many reasons. Size, money, battery life. I don't think everyone wants to have a phone with 4"+ screen, a badass processor and battery lasting less than 24h.

Posted by avmaxfan

On 2010-11-16 11:03:11, Lollylost100 wrote:
@avmaxfan @rss_ndrsn

Or they could make high-ends with MSM7230, although it won't be so capable next year

Yes but not Android phones. And in any case there are many Android phones meeting those demands and yet Android makers make money from high end phones. That is enough to conclude that Android market is all about the high end. There is no way

can change that. And also as rss_ndrsn mentioned in his post, the biggest market for Android is US and I don't think

low/mid end Androids will find much takers there. A big reason behind the low success of 2010 Xperia line up in US is the outdated hardware. I don't think anybody here would disagree with me on this. I simply cannot fathom why

would proudly make this mistake again of selling phones in US with outdated and sub par specs.

And no point in going for a "almost" high end device when you can get a proper high end phone for a little more. Phones with such sub par hardware do not have a market either. That is also one of the reasons X10 sales have been sliding downwards as its getting outdated hardware wise (same for other outdated high end phones from other manufacturers.)

[ This Message was edited by: avmaxfan on 2010-11-16 10:13 ]

Posted by Lollylost100
OK, but the point is SE isn't making a high spec phone. Unless your "source" has different information

Posted by synn

A big reason behind the low success of 2010 Xperia line up in US is the outdated hardware. I don't think anybody here would disagree with me on this.

Wrong.

Even after the late launch, it had (And still has) better hardware than most top selling US Android handsets.

- Older OS
- No appreciable carrier subsidy.
- Relatively low key marketing.

These are some of the reasons why X10 didn't make a blip in the US. I have used almost all high end Android phones and the X10 is still one of the more enjoyable user experiences of them all. The problem with you lot is that you're too effin' obsessed with numbers that you fail to see the bigger picture. A handset can have an i7 Extreme or whatever in it but is still shite if the user experience is shite. See the Galaxy S.

With the "So called failure" that the X10 is to some of you, SE actually managed to get back into the black and earn 17% of the total revenue among all Android handsets sold (And became the third largest Android handset maker) so stop whining because what you're whining about isn't true.

Oh, and Android isn't a high end OS because there are no minimum hardware limitations for it.

Sometimes I wish this forum had a "You must be This |------| smart to enter" board becuase some of you, for the lack of a better term; are just plain dumb.

Now flame on; or whatever.

Posted by rog
IMHO, there is a mix up of things here: one topic is the strategy that some of you people are talking about. This has NOTHING to do with rumors, which I think is the topic in this thread. So, to all the people here who try to derive (or in avmaxfan's case one could also say 'guess') device specs from what they think SE's strategy SHOULD be, why not open another thread? Because at least to me, that has nothing to do with rumors, and it has nothing to do with reality either.
Like it or not, but what has been written by Eldar is more or less accurate. And if I remember correctly, someone here already hinted on things before eldar came out

@synn: well spoken sir!

[ This Message was edited by: rog on 2010-11-16 10:53 ]

Posted by justus333
Then one really must question the remaining intelligence of Sony///?!

And with all caution but I too think that Eldar as of late almost always hit it on the nail regarding Sony///. And having been reading this and another german forum for a while it is very clear that Rog is the only true insider that I know of. He has been right every time! So as much as I wish avmaxfan was right Im afraid it will be as Rog or in this case Eldar too said.

Sad sad sad! It is like seing your favourite football club go down 2 leagues!

Posted by bambarah
it seems

depending on the "low costs" philosphy

they want to produce low cost phones to have more profits

but I think they are mistaken

make some low cost phones and one realy high end phone

Profit isn't with money always , making a reputation is a bigger profit

Posted by Lollylost100
So I guess the phones will be announced on the 13th of February, a day before MWC 2011. Unless there is some event held before that.

Posted by motvikt
The problem with sony mainly, but also SE is that they identify with apple to much, "we can do that cuz everyone knows we have the best design and the best user experience, and we can charge top dollars for it as well and our fans love us bla bla". They showed that attitude when they released x10 with 1.6 saying but we have timescape.. lol. So now they are about to release Anzo, only a small update over x10. Only ONE company in the world can pull that off and thats apple (not even sure they can now, android made them upgrade quite a lot with iphone4).

So what do we have...

Over x10. Bigger screen, slimmer, multi touch, hdmi, slightly faster processor (doubt many will even notice that, 1gigaherz snapdragon people will read).

Will people upgrade for that? doubt it. They could have upgraded the camera at least but no we are apple we dont need to follow the hardware war in the android world. God damn HTC, moto and samsung are gonna EAT SE up. What the hell were they thinking? The most depressing part is that Bert seems to know all this if you read what he says, but still he does nothing? Hope there is a logical explanation for all this, maybe there is no dualcore processors and the competitors use the same hardware as SE.

Anzo will probably be a great phone but if HTC releases desire 2 with better specs its gonna loose this fight too, at least here in Sweden.

Posted by motvikt
http://www.engadget.com/2010/[....]ne-with-dual-core-tegra-2-and/

Posted by Phoner
Btw Eldar said that he is planning to publish Anzu preview tomorrow.

Posted by smclion102
@motvikt

Agree wit u...

----------

Told US clearly they want to be no1...
i dont see that happening with all mid range...

There Should Be 1 High End and Many Mid Range.

We dont want all MID range

Posted by Legen

On 2010-11-16 12:40:36, motvikt wrote:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/[....]ne-with-dual-core-tegra-2-and/

if lg is doing dual core, everyone else is right? maybe even sonyericsson?

Posted by smclion102

On 2010-11-16 13:03:21, Legen wrote:

On 2010-11-16 12:40:36, motvikt wrote:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/[....]ne-with-dual-core-tegra-2-and/

if lg is doing dual core, everyone else is right? maybe even sonyericsson?

Posted by avmaxfan

On 2010-11-16 13:03:21, Legen wrote:

On 2010-11-16 12:40:36, motvikt wrote:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/[....]ne-with-dual-core-tegra-2-and/

if lg is doing dual core, everyone else is right? maybe even sonyericsson?

Oh well.. let's see

LG - Yup (Tegra 2)
HTC - Yup (Snapdragon dual core)
Motorola - Yup
Samsung- Yup

Posted by ron.jeremy
@ Avmaxfan
We'd love to ehar your insights in here.
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=91521
And everyone else of course as well.

Synn, you crack me up!

Posted by Hiron
Some thing to consider (a):
1. LG, HTC, Motorola, Samsung is doing dual-core soon
2. Last year SE is one of the first that is using a decent camera and next-gen 1ghz snapdragon (strategy 1)
3. SE is under quarterly loss

Then, according to some info, as opposed to each of point (a) respectively
1. SE is only doing single-core
2. This year SE will use the same camera (now considered mediocre) and let the others using next-gen snapdragon (strategy 2)
3. SE is under profit

Please tell me what had happened? Some logic doesn't seems to match each other...

I mean:
1. They just need to repeat what they had done last year with strategy 1 and they will get a success (at least X10 sales performs above SE's expectations and saves them from losses)...

2. Bert also said: "surprises coming soon", "ahead of competitors", "all about cpu speed and android versions." To think that Bert will eat his own word and changing their already proven strategy 1 to strategy 2, I think it's a bit unlogical

[ This Message was edited by: Hiron on 2010-11-16 12:51 ]

Posted by motvikt

On 2010-11-16 13:49:58, Hiron wrote:
Some thing to consider (a):
1. LG, HTC, Motorola, Samsung is doing dual-core soon
2. Last year SE is one of the first that is using a decent camera and next-gen 1ghz snapdragon (strategy 1)
3. SE is under quarterly loss

Then, according to some info, as opposed to each of point (a) respectively
1. SE is only doing single-core
2. This year SE will use the same camera (now considered mediocre) and let the others using next-gen snapdragon (strategy 2)
3. SE is under profit

Please tell me what had happened? Some logic doesn't seems to match each other...

I mean:
1. They just need to repeat what they had done last year with strategy 1 and they will get a success (at least X10 sales performs above SE's expectations and saves them from losses)...

2. Bert also said: "surprises coming soon", "ahead of competitors", "all about cpu speed and android versions." To think that Bert will eat his own word and changing their already proven strategy 1 to strategy 2, I think it's a bit unlogical

[ This Message was edited by: Hiron on 2010-11-16 12:51 ]

+1 well said. The only logic thing would be if anzo wasnt highend. But then again SE isnt logic (multitouch, x2, 1.6 etc)