Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2010-01-26 15:33:47, doministry wrote:
On 2010-01-26 14:51:03, Nitro Fan wrote:
I don't like the iPhone for a number of reasons and have been very critical of it in the past, but currently it is the benchmark that all others aspire to, its available and selling like hot cakes.
Given the fact the X10 is still in the lab with issues! I struggle to understand what statement comparing Apple rumors to Sony Ericson rumors makes?
The only benchmark it gives is sales number.
If not that, nobody would bother.
Whilst we clearly agree it is out selling all other smart phones,
But I am not sure I agree with your other statement "nobody would bother" it seems to me both the X10 and Nexus attempt to copy the clean lines of the iPhone (IMHO the Nexus is a much nicer looking device than the X10)
And surely there can be no doubt that Android is designed to imitate the iPhone interface as closely as possible! indeed almost every aspect of the iPhone Google dare not to include in their UI for fear of copyright infringement is being developed by third party developers Android will emulate the iPhone UI completely very shortly
There are pages and pages of comments on ESATO alone bemoaning the fact that any good interface NEEDS finger only pinch zooming, multitouch like the iPhone and yet more pages trumpeting how rubbish resistive screens are compared to .....the iPhone's capacitive display (A claim I disagree with strongly)
The manufacturers barley resist the press claims that their new touch screen device is an "iPhone killer" reason? they know that is the benchmark they have to beat!
All that aside you are missing the clearest indication that it is the benchmark for all smartphones IT is outselling all others WHY? because it gives people what they want. and that alone is the one feature that makes any device a benchmark to which others aspire.
Sony Ericsson's current policy of announcing devices months before they are ready, delivering them late, upstaged by more cutting edge devices and full of faults strikes me as being a benchmark for failure.
And their abysmal figures prove me to be correct.
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2010-01-26 19:14:45, se_dude wrote:
The only way a device can destabilize the X10 from its current position is with HD recording. The X10 is the best looking Android handset yet announced. SE have done a double take by releasing the Vivaz alongside it.
Surely any device you can actually go out and buy now Nexus iPhone etc etc removes a device that is still unavailable from any "imagined" position? The X10 is STILL merely a prototype it has no "position" just a spec list and that is only as good as the paper its printed on. Apart from that it is one ugly MF compared to the Nexus
[ This Message was edited by: Nitro Fan on 2010-01-27 09:47 ]
Posted by se_dude
@Nitro- Thats a new one.
Newaz, i wouldn't want you to choose a girl.Thats for sure. Would probably end up gettng ugly betty. 
Posted by miguel82
yeahh i think about 99% agree with that too 
Posted by goldenface
@Nitro Fan
Sorry mate but I have to disagree on your comment about the X10 trying to imitate the design of the iphone - in fact it's bollocks.
The X10 in no way even attempts to imitate the simple and clean lines of the iphone, the only thing they have in common is the form-factor. The Nexus may be, but the X10 no, absolute rubbish.
No-one with half decent eyesight could ever mistake the two.
Posted by se_dude
Now I know where "Nitro" fan gets his name from. Get well soon dude.
Posted by doministry
@Nitro Fan.
Well I disagree with some things.
I mean - iPhone is not giving what people want.
iPhone is giving what people start to like once they touch it,
and that's a different story.
Believe me or not, there are many features people
need on iPhones which are not available there.
And Apple does not deliver....
The thing is most of these are bought by people
who have never used this kind of device before.
It's the device which has awaken some awarness
that your device is more capable that you imagined.
Bundled with Apple's position
it made a selling success.
If iPhone would not be a massive selling success
nobody would bother copying it.
As for design: X10 is beautiful and it's not a copy of iPhone
in any way.
Sorry but design simplicity is not invented by any Apple.
Nexus is plain ugly as 90% of HTC devices,
but it's all about my taste...
Posted by miguel82
"I mean - iPhone is not giving what people want.
iPhone is giving what people start to like once they touch it,
and that's a different story"
200%agree! This is the only reason why apple still sells iphones...but when they realize the others are getting closer (and they are...android is the proof and symbian and WM will follow this year), apple will change their politics for sure.
But if apple starts to add better hardware like 8mp camara, xenon flash and somethings like that, they will be unbeatable
Posted by yawdapaah
When every iphone owner i know (the guys of course) has to jailbreak it for functionality, I'll pass. The X10 is also, by far, much better looking than the iphone.
Posted by chenmartin
Nexus One vs. XPERIA X10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YW5nbVZPb4
Posted by Nitro Fan
I don’t like iPhone’s apart from its looks and I would not own one for a number of reasons, but lets not forget the point I am making. And that is that the iPhone has set the benchmark by which ALL new smart or superphones will be judged I am NOT saying it has the most features or is necessarily the best.
I mean - iPhone is not giving what people want.
iPhone is giving what people start to like once they touch it,
and that's a different story.
A: I would have to disagree that the iPhone does not give people what they want. It clearly does, that is why they sell so many in areas where HW recog is non essential so I simply cannot accept the iPhone is not giving users what they want, it clearly does.
Believe me or not, there are many features people
need on iPhones which are not available there.
And Apple does not deliver....
The thing is most of these are bought by people
who have never used this kind of device before.
If iPhone would not be a massive selling success
nobody would bother copying it.
A: I think you are confusing the people who just buy a phone and the “Phone Enthusiasts” here who have much higher expectations of what phones should offer; after all we are all spending time discussing a phone that we cannot even buy yet, some eher would never use a standard iPhone they would have to jailbreak it, whilst most customers simply do not care! And manufacturers just want to have products that sell
We all know Linux apps are mostly much better than Windows apps but Windows is STILL the benchmark by which most personal computing is judged, Why? It sells more.
As for design: X10 is beautiful and it's not a copy of iPhone
in any way.
Sorry but design simplicity is not invented by any Apple.
A: I do not think I put my case very well on this issue! “Ugly Betty indeed”!! What I meant was Form factor you are correct and whilst I agree Apple did not invent good design they certainly put it too good use in their iPhone damn them!
I have to say I would prefer the X10 to look more sleek like the iPhone or Nexus I feel it looks a bit 1970’s and rather tacky with those chrome buttons and square blocky looks but that’s my taste
[ This Message was edited by: Nitro Fan on 2010-01-27 15:16 ]
Posted by Phantasm4489
The 1.6 vs 2.0/2.1 problem isnt so much in the feature list. There doesnt appear to be much in 2.0 that many people would find a deal breaker for the X10.
It is however a problem for average joe public who does not spend alot of time researching the differences between 1.6 and 2.0. By the time the X10 comes out there will be several phones out there sporting Android 2.0 and regardless of the actual difference that makes, people will see the X10 with android 1.6 and assume its old hat and assume that 1.6 is a big step back from 2.0
Posted by goldenface
Studies have shown that the average user is more interested in what a phone does, rather than what version OS it's running. They don't particularly care.
This message was posted from a WAP device
Posted by anonymuser
But is "the average user" the target market for a device like the X10?
The real snag for me would not simply that it came with 1.6 out of the box, but that I'd never be able to update it myself (without completely jailbreaking and modding etc). Every time a new version of Android comes out, various other phones will be updated automagically with the latest whizz-bang features, and X10 owners will be left dangling - waiting for a custom version from SE that may never come.
With the iPhone I'm used to being able to update my phone literally the same day that Apple releases new software. The idea of having to wait for someone like SE to finish (or even start) fiddling around with it before I can get it gives me shudders. It's back to the bad old days of being locked into a branded handset that's always months or even years behind the generic version. If I was going for a different OS like Android, I'd never go for the X10 for that reason.
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2010-01-27 18:07:56, Boinng wrote:
But is "the average user" the target market for a device like the X10?
The real snag for me would not simply that it came with 1.6 out of the box, but that I'd never be able to update it myself (without completely jailbreaking and modding etc). Every time a new version of Android comes out, various other phones will be updated automagically with the latest whizz-bang features, and X10 owners will be left dangling - waiting for a custom version from SE that may never come.
With the iPhone I'm used to being able to update my phone literally the same day that Apple releases new software. The idea of having to wait for someone like SE to finish (or even start) fiddling around with it before I can get it gives me shudders. It's back to the bad old days of being locked into a branded handset that's always months or even years behind the generic version. If I was going for a different OS like Android, I'd never go for the X10 for that reason.
Yes I think Sony Ericsson are after the "Average user" I see no reason why
would make a conscious decision to avoid the people who like the idea of an iPhone but don't want one they are the people I belive and Google are out to attract with Android.
However if I worked in a phone shop and had lived through the P990 debacle, I would be less than keen to push a customer in the direction of an
handset if I could flog them a trouble free vanilla Android phone with similar features.
I think the problems for
will come when the person who has bought lets say the X10 suddenly finds they cant update over the air like their friend who bought the Nexus or Droid can.
Forget the views of people on ESATO they were prepared to persevere with the P990!!! and no matter what they say we LOVE playing with our phone toys, so mucking about getting FW updates and unlocking the ROM is their meat and potatoes! the majority of my mates just want their handset to look good and work out of the box, and if it gives them a free update "Like Windows does" so much the better.
The problem for me is like you, I simply cannot be arsed with all that anymore, but I don't want an iPhone
[ This Message was edited by: Nitro Fan on 2010-01-27 17:37 ]
Posted by Tsepz_GP
This thread is going to be VERY interesting once this thing is out.
i hope the high hopes people have for it are met,as looking at some threads here at Esato, people are just so sure that this will be "The One".
Posted by anders260
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMLNkVUB28k
very nice
Posted by goldenface
Why wouldn't SE not provide updates for the X10 just because its Android? Why would the X10 be exempt from future fw upgrades?
And comparing it to an operator restricted fw is just silly. If anything they have added features to 1.6 rather than restricted, like Orange do with Track ID and Voda with bluetooth etc.
Anyway, has it been confirmed that SE won'tbe providing future upgrades to 2.0 or 2.1? because until it is then why enter into a discussion with such an assumption. Its all hot air until we know for sure.
I'd never consider an iphone - the cool factor went ages and ages ago. It's a boring old design that needs replacing badly and every Tom, Dick and Harry has got one. It's like Yaawwwwwn have you not moved on yet!
The X10 for me is something new and different to look forward to - when it eventually arrives.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2010-01-27 18:55 ]
Posted by anders260
surly the release of X10 in Japan will affect future SW upgrades? how big is the japanese mobile market ?, think if X10 becomes a huge hit there.
Posted by moogoo
very nice video. UI looks fluid and smooth...
Posted by goldenface
@anders260
So you're saying that the more successful the phone is, the more likely they are to provide an upgrade?
Posted by anders260
@goldenface, that's my guess, i belive if there are many satisified users ( that will be even more satisfied if we get ugrades to 2.0 or 2.1 etc..) will make this model to become even more popular, maby next year they will releae a X10S (with HD recording i.e.) just like the Iphone ( going from 3g to 3Gs, i hope the x10 is a beginning of an era for the x10 "model"
Posted by shery
in the video link above the person hints of a possible 2.0 update in future at around 9:15.
Posted by snoFlake
^ "That is our direction" - not exactly a roadmap. SE really could do wioth clarifying the situation with this before release. Uncertainty kills.
Posted by shery
^^ does that mean no updates?
Posted by johanlingon
Did he say second quarter at the end?
Posted by anders260
2Q in Canada
Posted by OffLineR
I'm getting old while waiting this phone
Posted by doministry
On 2010-01-27 19:46:53, goldenface wrote:
@anders260
So you're saying that the more successful the phone is, the more likely they are to provide an upgrade?
I'd say so...
Posted by mediar
SE has improved the speed since the MWC, the start-up animation in Timescape is already smooth, Mediaspace's transitions are smooth, but there is still some work to be done.
Posted by Phantasm4489
We are all probably all too aware of SE's (and many other mobile phone manufacturer) poor upgrades in the past and when all said and done you can kinda see their point. They would have to spend alot of money implementing and testing OS upgrades on their older phones way past the time when anyone was interested in buying them anymore because they arent the latest and greatest handset that everyone wants this week.
However we have never been in this situation before where the OS upgrades were provided pretty much for free by a 3rd party and all that is required is maybe some application reprogramming to get timescape/mediascape up and running on the latest OS. In this case i can see (and hope) that SE might start providing better upgrades to their older handsets the way some of the other established android manufacturers have done.
I still think alot of people will see this as Android 2 Phones vs Android 1 Phones though.
Posted by Caspa
Looks good in the video...
Does annoy me that product managers never seem to know the exacts about the devices they are product managers for!?!?!
Posted by eurisko
X10 will be availablein in Taiwan on MARCH
[ This Message was edited by: eurisko on 2010-01-28 00:35 ]
Posted by TJMonkey15
Did the guy in that video say they're aiming to put 8gb of internal storage in this thing??
I'm juuuuust a bit hesitant to believe that's true.....
[ This Message was edited by: TJMonkey15 on 2010-01-28 01:48 ]
Posted by rss_ndrsn
^That's actually better than including memory card in the package. It gives the user more memory if he oe she wishes to buy memory card. I hope SE do that.
Posted by chenmartin
FireFox for Android coming in February
http://www.phonearena.com/htm[....]n-February-article-a_9189.html
Posted by XPHCTOC
On 2010-01-28 03:02:45, rss_ndrsn wrote:
^That's actually better than including memory card in the package. It gives the user more memory if he oe she wishes to buy memory card. I hope SE do that.
at least 8gb external memory not internal
Posted by mediar
On 2010-01-28 07:20:08, chenmartin wrote:
FireFox for Android coming in February
http://www.phonearena.com/htm[....]n-February-article-a_9189.html
I'd wait for Opera Mobile 5 since I hate Firefox.
A few pages ago someone mentioned that X10 will come with MW-600 in the box. Does this mean we'll have radio in X10? Well, it's not build in, but we'll a radio.
[ This Message was edited by: mediar on 2010-01-28 08:09 ]
Posted by goldenface
On 2010-01-27 23:27:06, Caspa wrote:
Does annoy me that product managers never seem to know the exacts about the devices they are product managers for!?!?!
Me too, but I suppose they have to be very careful what they say because nothing it finalised until the production models begin appearing. So if they say a phone has a certain feature, then it doesn't appear in the production model, then there's..
Posted by mediar
A few sentences, which you should take a notes from:
As for the other things mentioned. Multi-touch support in the form that most people know it, i.e. pinch-to-zoom etc. Are patented capabilities of Apple/iphone and that is for the most part the reason why every Android OS phone released in the USA doesn't, to this day, support Multi-touch. European releases of these phones do. Also, android 1.6 while certainly, outdated is still he most used release. You have to figure SE's time in developing the UX platform way back before 2.0 or 2.1 were even mentioned in passing. So would you rather release the phone with 1.6 and solid running Timescape/Mediascape etc. or delay the phones launch now that 2.0 SDK became available to migrate everything over and start testing all over again. From a business stand point you would offer the best possible current version and then begin the update to 2.0, 2.1, whatever and offer it down the road. So it's really not a let down. People have to remember the Android OS is still fairly new and there are a number of things that it doesn't support natively. Even in it's current version users only have access to something like 190MB of ram on the phones for running their apps etc. In the Case of the Nexus One, the phone has 512MB total ram. You can use 190MB of that because the OS breaks it up some goes to the subsystem etc. There is still something like 100MB of unused RAM in that phone which is being worked on right now and likely there will be a patch which unleashes the "hidden" ram soon. I do agree that 256MB is pretty disappointing though.
Matthew Linscott, from the SE Developer Community.
[ This Message was edited by: mediar on 2010-01-28 10:59 ]
Posted by moogoo
those are all very valid points. the only thing where i think multi-touch would be missed is in typing out messages. But, I don't think it's so critical as to make the phone unusable.
It's a shame the RAM isn't bumped up to support future upgrades/tweaks though. Maybe we'll get a surprise come production time
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2010-01-27 19:14:40, GUCCI.011 wrote:
This thread is going to be VERY interesting once this thing is out.
i hope the high hopes people have for it are met,as looking at some threads here at Esato, people are just so sure that this will be "The One".
Ha ha some of the people here believe if
produced dog turds, they would be the best phones in the world
Posted by motvikt
Text
Matthew Linscott, from the SE Developer Community.
[ This Message was edited by: mediar on 2010-01-28 10:59 ]
