Posted by NightBlade
Mizzle, sorry to say this, but your simile was a tad inadequate.
Posted by marty mcfly
Don't reply because I won't read it?
Could this thread become any more childish? No one likes my opinion so I'm taking my ball home!
Mizzle it WAS a ridiculous thing to say. You don't need to spell out to me the point you were trying to make, that was crystal clear. However your choice of comparing the Nazi propaganda machine hiding the slaughter of millions of Jews to the Apple marketing campaign is one of the single most stupid things I've heard on this site.
And to suggest 10 million people are wrong because you say so, is also equally absurd.
A lot of people will buy into the hype for sure, but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy the phone just because you don't like it. No product sells 10 million units based on pure hype and lies. It has to have some substance, and it does.
Everyone has different needs and wants, which is why there are so many products on the market, to satisfy different types of customer.
It's called choice.
Posted by gtr83
@marty
He was actually referring to Boinng.
On a joking note, iPhone has proven itself to be full of substance - enough to start heated discussions whenever it rears its head in a thread. Just one of its talents I guess.
Posted by marty mcfly
I didn't say he wasn't.
I'm not a fan of the iPhone, because it doesn't suit my needs. But that doesn't mean I don't respect what it has achieved, and what it can do. It's a unique experience.
Posted by Boinng
On 2009-02-02 14:34:14, Mizzle wrote:
What a pile of rubbish! The argument was if 10 million people can be wrong, and there's no doubt about what the answer to that question is - YES. And they are.
And to a certain Boinng Boinng, I'm not going to withdraw anything. Feel free consider yourself insulted, if that's what you want. Oh, there's no point in replying to this post, as I have no intention of reading it.
Yeah, and that's about the level of the debate we have going here - it's sticking fingers in ears time, rah rah rah, I can't hear you so nur. Good one Mizzle.
Just while I've got the guarantee of you not reading or replying to this, I'd better just bring home the crass stupidity inherent in arguing that 10 million people's choice of mobile phone can (a) be considered "wrong", and (b) be considered wrong in the same sense that the people who supported Hitler were "wrong".
Firstly, in the case of choosing a mobile phone, nobody dies.
Secondly, NOBODY DIES.
The elephant in the room here being the corpses piled high from the concentration camps, none of whom died because somebody bought a mobile phone that Mizzle didn't like.
And that's really all this comes down to, Mizzle. You don't like something, so other's are "wrong" to buy it. Nevermind that they like it, nevermind that their recorded satisfaction levels with that product are very high, nevermind that it functions perfectly for them as a phone, ipod, internet device, etc etc - nevermind all that because Mizzle doesn't like it, and what Mizzle doesn't like is empirically wrong. All those people should have chosen an SE phone like Mizzle, and regardless of whether that was actually what they wanted or worked for them in anyway, that would have been right, and thousands of jews would still be alive - no, sorry, I mean Mizzle would be happier, and that's just as important of course.
Posted by gtr83
Well Boinng, this was meant to be a rant thread anyway. Why should we argue on Jewish defiance? --> pun intended.
Posted by masseur
ok guys and gals, I think mizzles comment has been discussed enough so its time to get the discussion back to what the originator intended, otherwise it may as well be locked
I've re-read my initial comments and I probably didn't agree in so many words that the iPhone *was* overrated. at the time it came out it probably was, but I was trying to make the point that with the apps shop etc, it is a device that offers so much potential... and the fact that so many fantastic apps have been produced for it which are both very functional and also look great on the iPhone screen, more than makes up for the comparative inadequacies of the device itself.
sure, iPhone on its own does not always compare well to other devices, but the iPhone experience is so much more than the device you get out of the box
there's hardly a moment of the day that I'm not using the iPhone for "something", and only WM has come this close to being anything like that but iPhone does it in so much more of an integrated, and therefore easier way, than WM
I guess the opinion that the iPhone is overrated comes partly from the fact that it is Apples only mobile phone, Apple has a huge loyalty base and they also advertise it heavily compared with other mobile phones. I can't actually remember seeing a single advert for the X1 (for example) on TV. I think the comment that it is overrated also comes partly from people who don't like Apple products or haven't experienced the iPhone.
I was a HUGE doubter before I got it and even remember offering >500 the first option on buying my first iPhone on the day I ordered it to try and see what all the hype was about, and this was a couple of days before I received it. Needless to say he didn't get it
Posted by gtr83
That's exactly how Apple did it. Instead of making something that will appeal to 10 out of 10 people, they made something that will interest at least 2 out of 10. Turns out other people also want to be hip and unique like those starting 2, and a full-fledged market is born. I bet Jobs himself didn't think at the pre-production stage that his cult product would be this much of a hit. But if it keeps going on this rate, don't you think it's going to get too mainstream? The whole point of Apple products have always had a bit of a cult nature.
Posted by masseur
hmmm, I see your point but if they continue to only have one "current" version of the iPhone, and not a range of mobile phones like other manufacturers, they will hold their position well, especially as they can focus their efforts... at least until the next revolutionary device comes along from... who-ever
but I really think any new device that wants to take away from iPhone will have to have an infrastructure behind it like iTunes to deliver the content in a simple, easy to use method for the man in the street
this has to be the way mobile device work in the future in order to realise the maximum capabilities...
Posted by bavlondon2
And it wont happen as Apple have a monopoly in the music market. Therefore they will always have the best route to customers without even lifting a finger.
Posted by masseur
I wouldn't say Apple have a monopoly given that there are plenty of other choices in the market, but its clear that they have an easy and a somewhat irresistable marketable offering to the devices that are compatible
Posted by goldenface
And don't forget that PlayNowArena plus is on its way. I read it could come with a never-ending contract too.
This message was posted from a K850i
Posted by carkitter
Alot of people here don't seem to 'get' what the iPhone is about or why it's so successful. And because they don't understand the reasons for its success they think there must be 'brainwashing' and 'hype' and 'lies' blinding poor unsuspecting consumers. There is no such thing, just enthusiam en-masse for a product which appeals to them.
Looking at the iPhone's spec is pointless. It doesn't even match my V640i in many areas as I pointed out before I bought an iPhone 3G 8GB last year.
It's the whole package - Hardware, Firmware, UI, Sync Software, Online Shop/App Shop and most importantly the Business Case which works not only for Apple, but the Networks, the Content Providers on iTunes (music, video), the App Developers and their clients, and the consumers.
The features that are missing are missing for a reason - BT file transfer clashes with Apple wanting to sell music through iTunes. Video recording and high quality camera is unnecessary because the target market already has a digi cam and video camera. There's no modem because the target market mostly doesn't use one anyway.
SE started a spec race with the K750i/W800i but lost out to Nokia since the N95. The iPhone is not about hardware specs. It's about providing a platform to deliver services which make Apple and its licensed partners money. After all who wants to be in business and not make money (except for Motorola?). The services add value to the device and makes it more appealing to the consumer over time. Smart planning not just smart marketing.
That's why it started off ahead of the competition in style and UI and has moved on to trounce the opposition to the point it is now years ahead. Years of software and hardware development. Years of corporate policy changes and industry negotiations.
Upping the specs won't help the other manufacturers, they need a new software platform and SDK, sync software, an online shop, an App shop, to convince Developers to participate, to convince consumers to buy and do it all while not looking like they are following Apple's lead. Frankly, any company that tries to follow in Apple's footsteps is doomed to fail. It'll cost too much and come out looking second best.
The iPhone and iTunes limitations annoy me but it works for Apple, the networks and other businesses. Therefore, we now have a device that causes networks to take mobile data seriously for the first time.
We now have a device that allows Developers to create really cool Apps and make money off them; my local bank has an iPhone App which allows me to pay all my bills from the iPhone and transfer between my accounts. Banks just don't take Java based mobile banking seriously - the iPhone has woken the mainstream corporate world to the possibilites of new communication avenues with consumers. We are actually at the place that smartphones have always promised but never delivered, where mobile communication is easy and totally integrated into your life.
And not just the Banks, News websites are set up for the iPhone, Youtube never looked so good, the Games are awesome as are the Utilities Apps which I use alot.
Normally, a groundbreaking phone comes out and is copied or overtaken fairly soon. But the iPhone has been out for 18 months (since the original 2G model) and is further ahead than ever with no sign the other manufacturers are even on the right path to compete with it.
The Nokia 5800 Xpress Music is a nice piece of hardware but without the iTunes Shop/App Shop its just a fancy phone which will soon be bettered.
Again, the iPhone is not just a phone but a package designed for a target market. It's irritating at times but mostly is utterly addictive and gets better every day.
_________________
Voted Best Phone Review Esato Awards 2008!
[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2009-02-03 10:26 ]
[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2009-02-03 10:34 ]
Posted by Nitro Fan
The iPhone is the best example of advertising power winning out over function I have ever seen.
I tried one for a week apart from an "Eye Candy" UI it offers NOTHING new
were making touch screen phones years ago yet you would think Apple invented the touch screen they way they and their sheep like followers carry on.
My new Nokia 5800 is so far ahead of the iPhone its untrue, and boy oh boy am I glad I realised the X1 was just a hyped up device with an old OS before wasting any money on it.
I have to say if Apple can con 10 million people into buying the iPhone we had all better watch out if they decide to go into politics, seems to me they are well on the way to cracking the method for "fooling all the people all of the time"
Posted by RyaN
yawn
someone lock this thread it's getting boring.
Posted by Boinng
I'm pretty sure it's not the iPhone users who have their eyes closed, let's leave it at that...
Posted by SloopJohnB
Its kinda amazing how someone can post such ignorant points after such a clear explanation by catkitter. I´ll repeat my words. The iphone came to show the market that is not about the number of functions but the implementation of these functions that matters. Putting up long specs list is just an outdated way of attractiong customers that in the long run is harmful both to consumers and manufactures. You gotta have a clear and useful concept behind the software/hardware otherwise it´s just pointless and silly.
Posted by bavlondon2
As someone mentioned earlier in this thread the sheer amounf of attention the iphone recieves is indicitive of just how good it is and just how envious others are of it. I guess iphone owners can take it as a compliment.
Posted by gtr83
It's just that these days it's Apple's turn in the spotlight. When they become too big like the you-know-who of the mobile phone industry, would be interesting to see what happens then. An interesting point of fact is that by having zillions of customers, any kind of manufacturer would be put to the test of whether they have outstanding (or crap) customer service. So far they've done pretty well.
Personally I still prefer non-touch phones myself, I have too much grub on my thumbs!
Posted by Nitro Fan
[quote]
On 2009-02-03 20:32:37, SloopJohnB wrote:
Its kinda amazing how someone can post such ignorant points after such a clear explanation by catkitter. I´ll repeat my words. The iphone came to show the market that is not about the number of functions but the implementation of these functions that matters. Putting up long specs list is just an outdated way of attractiong customers that in the long run is harmful both to consumers and manufactures. You gotta have a clear and useful concept behind the software/hardware otherwise it´s just pointless and silly.
[/quote
Ignorant? My opinion is just as valid as catkillers, it just depends if your gullible enough to have taken Apples bait or not
Posted by Boinng
And again, I don't think it's Apple laying the bait! Ryan's right, this is a pointless thread which needs closing.
Posted by RyaN
Yeah, locked or thrown in the garbage section and the subject changed to 'Let off some steam in this thread'
BTW it's carkitter not catkitter
Posted by marty mcfly
Or even Catkiller
Posted by RyaN
lol, that'd be a slightly controversial username!!
Posted by Bhavv
I actually left mobile phone forums after the Iphone was released and so many people were brainwashed by its marketting tactics.
Britney Spears sells millions of records, but I dont think that many people will agree that she is in anyway revolutionary, she is just hyped by the media enough to get people to buy her records. Similary, just because lots of people have bought any product due to an excessive marketting campaign - Iphone included - doesnt automatically make it revolutionary, they are brainwashed by apple's PR and marketing scheme into believing this. Oh wow, touch screen phone and I Pod, oooh wow, REVOLUTIONARY!!!!!
Now the Iphone 3G would actually be a good buy - If it had a better camera, was available on more networks, had a removable battery, had MMS (If I ever go anywhere in Europe, I get free MMS use out of my Flext allowance).
I find the Samsung Omnia to be a far better device, but as much as I would like to have one, I still wont buy it because I need good camera features on my Phone as I use my phone for both camera and video recorder. Just having 15 FPS at VGA video recording resolution has completely put me off buying the handset, so what chance do you think there is to convince me that the Iphone is actually a good phone? Very little I think.
The Iphone in the mobile phone industry is the same thing as Britney Spears in the music industry to me. The fans adore both of them, without caring about or being bothered by their shortcomings, in other words they adapt their needs around the product. The more critical fans of mobile phones and music however that arent so guillable and easilly persuaded by marketting place their needs before their purchase. My needs right now are 7.2 Mbps HSDPA and a minimum of 5 Mp and 30 FPS VGA recording on the camera, and I am basing my phone choice around these features. I really really want an Omnia. Just as much as apple fans really really want an Iphone. But it doesnt meet my needs and if I did buy the Omnia, then very soon I would be needing to buy a seperate camera, which is a bad choice if I can get a device which has the best of phone, camera and internet features.
But lets be trully honest. Out of the millions of people buying an Iphone, how many of them have actually owned a smartphone, a cameraphone, or a phone with HSDPA and decent internet before? I would at a guess say less then 25% of them, mostly the mobile phone fanatics who are rich enough to buy just about every device on the market will have had a similar phone before the Iphone. However, the majority of Iphone users, prior to owning an Iphone had a rubbish device, for exampe I have come across several Americans on various forums that have gone from using a Motorolla Razr to the Iphone, and there are many more that switched from other low end devices to the Iphone. Of course when making such an upgrade, all of a sudden the Iphone is going to seem like the best, and most revolutionary phone ever made due to how much better it was then your last model, but for the people who actually know a thing or two about mobile phone specifications and features, aside from the screen and UI, there is nothing feature wise that puts the Iphones above any of their competitors to make them revolutionary in any kind of way.
Normally, a groundbreaking phone comes out and is copied or overtaken fairly soon. But the iPhone has been out for 18 months (since the original 2G model) and is further ahead than ever with no sign the other manufacturers are even on the right path to compete with it.
The Nokia 5800 Xpress Music is a nice piece of hardware but without the iTunes Shop/App Shop its just a fancy phone which will soon be bettered.
Now this is just a misconception. The majority of Iphone users simply have no, or little idea of what else is out there. You have already compared it to the Nokia 5800, but are you, or the majority of Iphone users aware of other similar handsets? How about the
X1 Xperia? Many of the HTC phones? The Samsung Omnia? There are probably even others that I am not aware of, but these phones are all missing something crucial that the Iphone had. Hype and marketting, simply put, not many people of the general public that own an Iphone are aware of these other models, they have only heard of the Iphone and immediately think it is the best and most revolutionary phone ever because the advert they read says so, and they then go and buy one.
Also, the phones that I mentioned have been in the past very difficult to find on contract - most people that buy one get them Sim Free. They did not enjoy the aditional PR and Advertising that the carriers of the Iphone (who were paid by Apple to do so) gave to this phone.
I mean, I actually heard from O2 employees that would tell their customers 'The Iphone is the most revolutionary phone', that O2 staff were told by Apple to say these things to their customers. The Iphone is not revolutionary because of its features or as a product, it is only revolutionary because Apple did such a good job of spreading this nonsence by advertisment and word of mouth from their carriers employees who were told specifically what to say about the phone in order to sell it.
On 2009-02-04 00:11:02, bavlondon2 wrote:
As someone mentioned earlier in this thread the sheer amounf of attention the iphone recieves is indicitive of just how good it is and just how envious others are of it. I guess iphone owners can take it as a compliment.
So going back to my earlier comparison, the sheer amount of attention and record sales that Britney Spears recieves is indicitive of just how good a singer she is and just how envious others are of her talent.
The same can perhaps also be said about World of Warcraft then:
the sheer amount of attention that World of Warcraft recieves is indicitive of just how outstanding the graphics of the game are, and just how envious others are of this amazing and most revolutionary game ever made.
I think not.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-04 19:04 ]
Posted by RyaN
You left? Can't you go back from whence you came???
I really couldn't be arsed to read your essay, but whilst scanning (read: trawling) down to hit reply, i notice you are comparing Britney Spears to a phone. Oh dear is all i have to say - oh dear.
Posted by Boinng
Seriously, someone call this thread a cab before we all die of extreme patronage. Or boredom.
Bhavv, all I can say is you're making the right choice in rejecting the Omnia. It's not very good, but that's nothing to do with the camera.
Posted by londonlad123
The iPhone is a great phone, the implementation of a web browser, email especially ms exchange and HTML emails, calender and keyboard does it for me. The wifi is excellent! That's something you won't discover until you own one for a little while and there's many more of those. Couldn't care less about mms (rather use email) and camera is below average for quick snaps but there aren't many phones worth taking proper pics with. The iPhone could do with official copy/paste, homescreen and YouTube ordered by date added.
It's all about what's important to you.
Posted by NoKia
On 2009-02-04 19:40:14, Bhavv wrote:
But lets be trully honest. Out of the millions of people buying an Iphone, how many of them have actually owned a smartphone, a cameraphone, or a phone with HSDPA and decent internet before? I would at a guess say less then 25% of them, mostly the mobile phone fanatics who are rich enough to buy just about every device on the market will have had a similar phone before the Iphone. However, the majority of Iphone users, prior to owning an Iphone had a rubbish device, for exampe I have come across several Americans on various forums that have gone from using a Motorolla Razr to the Iphone, and there are many more that switched from other low end devices to the Iphone.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-04 19:04 ]
this paragraph has to be the most retarded comment i have ever read on this forum, and even in this thread full of ignorant comments, even sillier than the deluded funny guy who thinks the nokia 5800 is the greatest phone on earth, and the hitler comparisons, and the other moronic titbits it still stands out in class of its own.
So iphone users love it becuase over 75% of them are used to rubbish phones? obviously these stats are based on a survey you did yourself?
i cant even be bothered to argue about this
Posted by Brightspark
On 2009-02-05 00:47:49, NoKia wrote:
On 2009-02-04 19:40:14, Bhavv wrote:
But lets be trully honest. Out of the millions of people buying an Iphone, how many of them have actually owned a smartphone, a cameraphone, or a phone with HSDPA and decent internet before? I would at a guess say less then 25% of them, mostly the mobile phone fanatics who are rich enough to buy just about every device on the market will have had a similar phone before the Iphone. However, the majority of Iphone users, prior to owning an Iphone had a rubbish device, for exampe I have come across several Americans on various forums that have gone from using a Motorolla Razr to the Iphone, and there are many more that switched from other low end devices to the Iphone.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-04 19:04 ]
this paragraph has to be the most retarded comment i have ever read on this forum, and even in this thread full of ignorant comments, even sillier than the deluded funny guy who thinks the nokia 5800 is the greatest phone on earth, and the hitler comparisons, and the other moronic titbits it still stands out in class of its own.
So iphone users love it becuase over 75% of them are used to rubbish phones? obviously these stats are based on a survey you did yourself?
i cant even be bothered to argue about this
actually, he has a good point. a great many are used to crap phones. considering that america is the main selling ground for the iphone and america is a 3rd world country regarding phones, the i think you'll find that a large proportion of iphone users are used to crap phones...whether they come from the US or not.
his post is more practical and realistic than yours
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2009-02-04 23:59 ]
Posted by NoKia
On 2009-02-05 00:58:41, Brightspark wrote:
On 2009-02-05 00:47:49, NoKia wrote:
On 2009-02-04 19:40:14, Bhavv wrote:
But lets be trully honest. Out of the millions of people buying an Iphone, how many of them have actually owned a smartphone, a cameraphone, or a phone with HSDPA and decent internet before? I would at a guess say less then 25% of them, mostly the mobile phone fanatics who are rich enough to buy just about every device on the market will have had a similar phone before the Iphone. However, the majority of Iphone users, prior to owning an Iphone had a rubbish device, for exampe I have come across several Americans on various forums that have gone from using a Motorolla Razr to the Iphone, and there are many more that switched from other low end devices to the Iphone.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-04 19:04 ]
this paragraph has to be the most retarded comment i have ever read on this forum, and even in this thread full of ignorant comments, even sillier than the deluded funny guy who thinks the nokia 5800 is the greatest phone on earth, and the hitler comparisons, and the other moronic titbits it still stands out in class of its own.
So iphone users love it becuase over 75% of them are used to rubbish phones? obviously these stats are based on a survey you did yourself?
i cant even be bothered to argue about this
actually, he has a good point. a great many are used to crap phones. considering that america is the main selling ground for the iphone and america is a 3rd world country regarding phones, the i think you'll find that a large proportion of iphone users are used to crap phones...whether they come from the US or not.
his post is more practical and realistic than yours
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2009-02-04 23:59 ]
lol of course it is and Britney is from america right? ...incase u missed it nearly every iphone user in this thread is in the UK
i doubt there is even one from the US
Posted by Bhavv
On 2009-02-05 01:09:20, NoKia wrote:
On 2009-02-05 00:58:41, Brightspark wrote:
On 2009-02-05 00:47:49, NoKia wrote:
On 2009-02-04 19:40:14, Bhavv wrote:
But lets be trully honest. Out of the millions of people buying an Iphone, how many of them have actually owned a smartphone, a cameraphone, or a phone with HSDPA and decent internet before? I would at a guess say less then 25% of them, mostly the mobile phone fanatics who are rich enough to buy just about every device on the market will have had a similar phone before the Iphone. However, the majority of Iphone users, prior to owning an Iphone had a rubbish device, for exampe I have come across several Americans on various forums that have gone from using a Motorolla Razr to the Iphone, and there are many more that switched from other low end devices to the Iphone.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-04 19:04 ]
this paragraph has to be the most retarded comment i have ever read on this forum, and even in this thread full of ignorant comments, even sillier than the deluded funny guy who thinks the nokia 5800 is the greatest phone on earth, and the hitler comparisons, and the other moronic titbits it still stands out in class of its own.
So iphone users love it becuase over 75% of them are used to rubbish phones? obviously these stats are based on a survey you did yourself?
i cant even be bothered to argue about this
actually, he has a good point. a great many are used to crap phones. considering that america is the main selling ground for the iphone and america is a 3rd world country regarding phones, the i think you'll find that a large proportion of iphone users are used to crap phones...whether they come from the US or not.
his post is more practical and realistic than yours
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2009-02-04 23:59 ]
lol of course it is and Britney is from america right? ...incase u missed it nearly every iphone user in this thread is in the UK
i doubt there is even one from the US
And that is why you cant really tell why the Iphone did as well as it did in the US, for the reasons that I tried to explain. Seriously, esato forum members do not represent the general mobile phone buying market, people here are enthusiasts, a lot of them buy a lot more then one phone every 18 months unlike the general user who just gets a phone whenever an upgrade is due.
The normal person using a phone has never heard of or used mobile phone forums, everything that they consider when making a purchase is done through advertising, which is why the Iphone has been such a success. Also, in its native market of America, it actually was the first phone with such features to be released and paid any attention - both Sony Ericsson and Nokia have sold practically nothing in America, so by your comparisons that sales = revolutionary, this means that nokia and SE can be considered the two most unrevolutionary phone manufacterers since they hardly sold anything in America.
The comparison against Britney Spears is a very good and truthful comparison about how marketing and hype pays off, but I dont expect the brainwashed Iphone fans to understand the point.
If apple sold grapes in the supermarket, they would probably be able to convince everyone that they are the most revolutionary grapes in the world.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-05 00:41 ]
Posted by Bhavv
If we ignore sales in the US, how well did the Iphone do? How well did it sell in Europe and Asia? Did it even gain anyones interest in Japan and Korea? I dont know these things, but I doubt anyone here considers sale performance of the Iphone while ignoring the USA, one of the worst countries in the world to even bother with comparing mobile phone sales.
On 2009-02-04 20:11:30, Boinng wrote:
Seriously, someone call this thread a cab before we all die of extreme patronage. Or boredom.
Bhavv, all I can say is you're making the right choice in rejecting the Omnia. It's not very good, but that's nothing to do with the camera.
In your opinion the Omnia is not very good. In a better opinion it is far better specified then the Iphone, and I am perfectly capable of using and adapting to the UI of any phone. I can browse the internet all day comfortably on my
T700, and have been using mobile internet since the black and white GPRS wap days. I would surely believe that for most Iphone users in America, it is the first mobile device that they ever used to access the internet, hence the extra added emphasis to its fake revolutionary features. [ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-05 00:57 ]
Posted by NoKia
you keep banging on about america and britney spears but the ppl in here arguing with you are in the UK and we have all used all your soo called super phones, i personally have used nearly every highend nokia, my current t-mobile contract is an N96, before that i had the LG viewty for 12months which someone in here laughably described as better than an iphone
we know all the alternatives on the market and are as u put it "enthusiasts",
and none of us would ever buy a phone becuase of a tv advert or marketing campaign, so your whole post is rendered irrelevant on here, unless u were hoping the unfortunate americans would read it
Posted by Bhavv
On 2009-02-05 01:52:40, NoKia wrote:
you keep banging on about america and britney spears but the ppl in here arguing with you are in the UK and we have all used all your soo called super phones, i personally have used nearly every highend nokia, my current t-mobile contract is an N96, before that i had the LG viewty for 12months which someone in here laughably described as better than an iphone
we know all the alternatives on the market and are as u put it "enthusiasts",
and none of us would ever buy a phone becuase of a tv advert or marketing campaign, so your whole post is rendered irrelevant on here, unless u were hoping the unfortunate americans would read it
Because all of you keep on banging on about sales, and more sales = revolutionary. I dont think that the users on Esato make up for even less then 1% of the sales of the Iphone, so how exactly can the sale numbers of the phone be realistically discussed without looking at the why and where of how many numbers the phone sold outside of these forums?
I have never used a Nokia N96, but I would buy it if I could afford one over the Iphone anyday. To me, UI and screen are the least important functions of a handset over features, the phone can be the most pleasurable toy to play with in the world, but if it doesnt have the features I want, then I would still need to buy another phone or a seperate camera on top of having the awesome revolutionary toy phone.
If it has less then a minimum of 3.2 MP camera and QVGA 30 FPS video capture, then to me it must be a budget phone on todays market. There are better specified phones available in the Iphones price range, and to me, specification and features is what makes a phone good, not the UI and how nice it feels to use in the hand.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-05 01:08 ]
Posted by NoKia
ok i never said that sales = revolutionary or even made any reference to sales , please quote me if i am mistaken
so basically your idea of a great phone is that it must have a great camera? fair enough, i rarely ever use my phone for serious pictures, its good enough for quick snaps my 5mp viewty(marketed as a revolutionary camera phone) wasnt that much superior, so i concede if you wish to take great pictures then the iphone is not for you, though outside of the dedicated SE camera phones i wouldnt trust most smartphone cameras for anything serious, i guess you are all falling victim to marketing hype and megapixel wars
Posted by Coquito
I admit i hated the iPhone before but now i have one i jus love it
Is amazing, the Jailbreak and the App Store make a huge diference of what iPhone was before and what it is now.
It has everything i need excep a better camera but that s why i still have my K850i
I m not very good writing english so that s all i can say and i hope you understand me
Posted by SloopJohnB
Iphone´s big sale number has nothing to do with famous pop song artists but the fact that now more people are buying smartphones than before. They are considering smartphones because they got more powerful, cheaper and easier to use. That´s why the iphone is selling so much. Of course the changes that the iphone brought to the market exceed that (focus on touchscreen, new UI ideas, huge mobile software development and etc). If the other companies couldn´t make a smartphone this appealing, bad for them. No matter how u spin things, the iphone is not just marketing, it DID change things. Most of the phone´s marketing was done by journalists excited with the device, not apple´s own campaing. Just look at the phones being released now in the market, they all have something from the iphone. You may not like the device or think it doesn´t fit your ´needs´ but this whole ´it´s a dumbphone´ argument is just plain old and very inaccurate. Besides that, having ´long specs list´ is ALSO marketing. Adding more and more pixels to a camera is ALSO marketing. All just ways of persuading the customer into thinking the ´next´ model is better then the previous so you should buy the new one. You are TOTALLY influenced by other companies marketing, but u think only ´apple´s´ marketing is bad. Please, grow up.
Posted by Bhavv
On 2009-02-05 02:20:31, NoKia wrote:
ok i never said that sales = revolutionary or even made any reference to sales , please quote me if i am mistaken
so basically your idea of a great phone is that it must have a great camera? fair enough, i rarely ever use my phone for serious pictures, its good enough for quick snaps my 5mp viewty(marketed as a revolutionary camera phone) wasnt that much superior, so i concede if you wish to take great pictures then the iphone is not for you, though outside of the dedicated SE camera phones i wouldnt trust most smartphone cameras for anything serious, i guess you are all falling victim to marketing hype and megapixel wars
Yes I was meaning to reply specifically to people who were saying that sales = revolutionary. Do not mistake me, I do not hate the Iphone, I am too poor to buy more then one high end phone every 18 months and a seperate camera, hence I simply want the best camera phone model on the market when I upgrade. Now, best is a inaccurate term, because I do not need an 8 mpix phone, 5 is more then fine and VGA recording. I dont take professional pictures and videos, just the occasional one at events or places that I want to remember. What has become important to me is mobile internet, but that doesnt mean that I want to downgrade to an Iphone and settle for a 2 MP camera. If I could afford to buy several high end phones like people on these forums, then I would try the Iphone, But at the same time I wouldnt go around defending it and calling it revolutionary.
I simply get the latest and best phone for every upgrade, and thats it. I just had to buy a sim free T700 because my K850 buggered up, and I really dont like the C905 enough to want it for 18 months, just like I wouldnt want the Iphone.
Right now I want to get a phone with 7.2 Mbps, Wifi, GPS, 5 Mpix camera and 30 FPS VGA recording. Samsung Omnia and Pixon dont have all the features. LG Renoir does, but for this one I hear that the UI is actually bad enough to get a Samsung instead. Instead of getting any of them and being stuck for 18 months, I am now considering waiting for an LG KM900 arena as it will be more up to date then the current models, and also nicer looking.
Sorry, but the Iphone doesnt meet my requirements, and I am sticking to T mobile for the best mobile broadband contract that has ever been available in the UK, and I have it for 50% off - 10 Gb per month, 900 minutes or 1800 texts, £28.75 a month.
I basically want a phone good enough to match my data tariff with a good camera as well, and I cannot get that on O2 with the Iphone.
But yes, the Iphone would make a nice toy if I could afford a second high end phone, but its always been the top handset every upgrade for me since the K700, and thats it.
And then I just get beyond annoyed with all the Iphone praise and some people calling it the best and most revolutionary phone ever. Sorry if I disagree, but I do. My tariff, and my phone is better and more revolutionary then anything else available in the UK, nah nah nah nah nah, I win, I have had 10 Gig monthly limit for £11.25, and super fast HSDPA internet, plus an uber camera thrown in too for longer then you Iphone users, oh, and my K800 and K850 were both free, nah nah nah nah nah.
I can win playgrounds fights too, oh, and I not only have the best data bundle for the best price available in the UK, nor have I just had awesome 3G and HSDPA, plus the best camera phones for free the last few years, but my dad can also beat up your dad!
Nah nah nah nah nah, my tariff, my phone, me and my dad > you lol.
/Jokes. Im just a cheapskate with a discounted tariff plus the best camera phones every 18 months, and cant ever leave it for the Iphone since my discount rules.
Posted by SloopJohnB
Bhavv,
it´s no suprise to me that you are a kid, i´ve kinda noticed before. But you need to mature a bit before you can have a real discussion with someone. Most people on this forum are mobile enthusiasts or people that need these devices for work or more serious tasks. Let´s not turn it into a kindergarden fight ´i have this´ ´my dad gave me that´ and so on.
Can someone lock this thread please?
Posted by Brightspark
On 2009-02-05 01:09:20, NoKia wrote:
On 2009-02-05 00:58:41, Brightspark wrote:
On 2009-02-05 00:47:49, NoKia wrote:
On 2009-02-04 19:40:14, Bhavv wrote:
But lets be trully honest. Out of the millions of people buying an Iphone, how many of them have actually owned a smartphone, a cameraphone, or a phone with HSDPA and decent internet before? I would at a guess say less then 25% of them, mostly the mobile phone fanatics who are rich enough to buy just about every device on the market will have had a similar phone before the Iphone. However, the majority of Iphone users, prior to owning an Iphone had a rubbish device, for exampe I have come across several Americans on various forums that have gone from using a Motorolla Razr to the Iphone, and there are many more that switched from other low end devices to the Iphone.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2009-02-04 19:04 ]
this paragraph has to be the most retarded comment i have ever read on this forum, and even in this thread full of ignorant comments, even sillier than the deluded funny guy who thinks the nokia 5800 is the greatest phone on earth, and the hitler comparisons, and the other moronic titbits it still stands out in class of its own.
So iphone users love it becuase over 75% of them are used to rubbish phones? obviously these stats are based on a survey you did yourself?
i cant even be bothered to argue about this
actually, he has a good point. a great many are used to crap phones. considering that america is the main selling ground for the iphone and america is a 3rd world country regarding phones, the i think you'll find that a large proportion of iphone users are used to crap phones...whether they come from the US or not.
his post is more practical and realistic than yours
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2009-02-04 23:59 ]
lol of course it is and Britney is from america right? ...incase u missed it nearly every iphone user in this thread is in the UK
i doubt there is even one from the US
whats the demographics of esato got to do with the comment about iphone users? for example, how does it make it any less or more valid?
Posted by Bhavv
On 2009-02-05 03:38:42, SloopJohnB wrote:
Bhavv,
it´s no suprise to me that you are a kid, i´ve kinda noticed before. But you need to mature a bit before you can have a real discussion with someone. Most people on this forum are mobile enthusiasts or people that need these devices for work or more serious tasks. Let´s not turn it into a kindergarden fight ´i have this´ ´my dad gave me that´ and so on.
Can someone lock this thread please?
Some people just dont understand sarcasm. I was pretending to sound as annoying as Iphone lovers sound to me. You really dont like me talking like a kid, so why do so many Iphone fans need to jump into a complaint thread about the phone and start defending it at every chance they get. It is a good phone yes, but it is far from revolutionary, nor does have features that are worth its price cost.
Posted by SloopJohnB
I am not trying to defend the iphone at all cost, it´s just that many people have wrong ideas about it or havent use it all and come here to speak rubbish about it. When users call it ´revolutionary´ they mean the iphone changed the market and somehow the way we use smartphones. That´s NOT opinion. It´s FACT. Even if you don´t like the iphone, most companies are designing phones today that borrowed something from the iphone somehow (new UI, multitouch, app shop, media store, safari-like browser and so on).
This discussion is getting old. I vote for this thread being locked.
Posted by Boinng
Bhavv, your whole point seems to revolve around the fact that you don't want an iPhone because you need a high spec camera - well that's fine, and reflects your own personal priorities, but it says absolutely nothing about whether the iphone is a good product, or "revolutionary", or anything else - only that it doesn't meet one specific requirement of yours. Big deal.
As a side argument you seem intent on dividing iphone ownership between two stereotypes - the Britney loving, RAZR-touting American who doesn't know any better, and the multi-device "enthusiast" with more gadgets than sense. Firstly I should probably point out the flaw in your argument that americans don't buy SE's or Nokias so don't know about touchscreens - while it's true that symbian phones like the P series etc never got a good foothold in the US, Windows Mobile phones like the Omnia are nothing new and have been selling in the states for many years - and yes, many devout WinMo users in the states and elsewhere have since switched to the iPhone. We can both quote anecdotal evidence - I'm sure I've seen just as many WM switchers as you've seen RAZR fans. Of course the iphone has successfully hit the mainstream and attracted traditional "dumbphone" users in their droves too, but that's just another measure of its revolutionary status.
Secondly, let me break your other stereotype - I'm not a rich man by any means and I've never carried more than one phone - I have one contract just like you, and replace my phone only at 12 or 18 month intervals as dictated by my contract. Unlike you the camera isn't a big deal for me, so I've concentrated on having the best smart/PDA type phones I could get on contract over the last five years or so. I've already done WinMo (my Tytn 2 last year ran WM6.1 just like the Omnia) and I used SE touchscreen smartphones exclusively before that, so the history of touchscreen smartphones is no mystery to me. I've lived with no less than four previous touchscreen smartphones (the P800, P910, M600, and Tytn 2) each over a full year or more. Despite that, the iPhone I'm using now is the most revolutionary device I've had, and I've never been more satisfied with a device or enjoyed a phone more. Can you honestly tell me I'm wrong?
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2009-02-05 09:35 ]
Posted by gtr83
Turns out MWEB could make a living out of telling the future after all.
Posted by Boinng
On 2009-02-05 17:26:38, gtr83 wrote:
Turns out MWEB could make a living out of telling the future after all.
Actually MWEB got it plumb wrong, he was on his "imaging" hobbyhorse and expecting me to talk about the iPhone's camera, but I've nothing more to say on that subject
Posted by yea g
Lol is this like the "see how much s*** you can cram into a post before the severs crash" thread
Posted by ares
wow, where did this thread come from...already 7 pages long??? lol...
i think i have something to add here...i´ve been a SE fan for 5 years, sometimes even being a bit irrational about it...
recently i get fed up with the way SE concentrates on crap feature phones, while destroyed the advantage they had on touchscreen based smartphones (they started before the others)
i was also fortunate to get an iphone (as a prize on a contest), so i opted to sell my beloved P1 while it had some value...
now...i´ve been using the iphone for about 2 months...and all i can i say is i was wrong on alot of stuff i said about it before...
yes, it does annoy me in several subjects, well known...my P1 was better than it in alot of stuff
yes, if it was not jailbroken, my experience will be ALOT worse
even so, i´ve NEVER used mobile email like i do now...same goes to twitter, facebook etc...i´ve NEVER used a smartphone to view and edit photos like i do now; same goes to reading comics; etc
i thought multitouch was a not a must on a touch screen device...i WAS WRONG...when i tried a normal touch screen device after (xperia x1), the thing looked primitive, i just could not do what i was used to
the little details found in stuff like the clock app, the amazing amount of software coming everyday, the fact it is a real gaming platform right now (i sold my ds), etc, all make me not regret using it (i sold my ds)
even so, there is alot to improve...apple has to step up and target all the know software flaws in the upcoming major firmware revision (3.0)
to end it, i can say that now i understand why this thing shook the mobile market like an hell of an earthquake
p.s.: i´ve NEVER owned an apple product before
_________________
P1i + M24gb + hbh ds970
uiqblog.com
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2009-02-06 10:41 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2009-02-06 10:42 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ares on 2009-02-06 17:25 ]
Posted by Boinng
Well said, Ares.
Posted by hf1344
On 2009-02-04 00:11:02, bavlondon2 wrote:
As someone mentioned earlier in this thread the sheer amounf of attention the iphone recieves is indicitive of just how good it is and just how envious others are of it. I guess iphone owners can take it as a compliment.
Its funny to see that the same people that criticize others for saying that choosing the iPhone is a mistake, say the same thing the other way round.
Like many others here, i dont like most things of the iPhone. I discuss this with a friend since iPhone´s existence (yes its stupid, but we do it anyways). Some say that simplicity is iphone`s point, but at the same time you have billions of stupid "apps" to add the functions the phone lacks ( bluetooth,mms ,etc). I even saw an app to make your iphone a mirror ( the only thing that it did was to put the display in black) and the developer claimed to had been developing an special algorithm to make it darker. So you end up filling it with aplications to make it work like it should from the beggining.
Well, its obviously a matter of taste, i got to say it have some positive things, but i still dont like it. If you do, then great.
Maybe the Iphone will cause world war III , who knows ? XD