Posted by anonymuser
On 2009-04-21 22:24:37, doministry wrote:
That's the point - it does NOT work "like a horribly overcomplicated imitation of a desktop computer".
That may be your point, but it's not the point. You're simply countering my opinion with your own, which is fine, but doesn't get us anywhere. I've used Windows Mobile, I've tried out SE's Panels, I know what you're saying is a massively exaggerated glorification of what Panels ultimately fail to be, but if its what you want to believe that's ok. It's just pointless to be banging on about "facts" all the time (a word that you chose to bring into this by the way) when you have zero facts of your own to contribute, only more of your own highly biased opinion.
The same simplicity goes on X1 so again what are you talking about?
But you're just ignoring facts, here. The X1 is not as simple. The X1 interface presents you with 9 different UI options before you can even get near any other apps and functions. It is by design more complex, there's simply no getting away from that fact.
Or even better, 'cos I cam answer the call one handed without any (IMO useless) swipe,
but just click one button.
but just click one button.
What's the difference between a one-handed swipe and a one-handed button press? Only that the button press is more likely to happen in your pocket by accident.
The time is also permanently visible on my title bar..
Etcetera.
Etcetera.
Only by losing the battery indicator - very convenient and well thought out I'm sure!
Who told you those "horrible" stories about WM complicated operation on X1?
It's out of the cloud again. Without any facts.
It's out of the cloud again. Without any facts.
I don't know where this cloud is that you're so fond of, but it's a "fact" that I've been using WM a lot longer than you...
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2009-04-22 07:58 ]
Posted by doministry
Boinng,
I see.
Well, good luck than with producing the horrible "truth" about X1.
iPhone will win always anyway. Even if the solutions they give are hilarious.
If the fact that something is actually productive and works fine,
opposed to YOUR biased opinion of another person (I mean you're not God...) is not considered here BUT your statements work fine,
stops any possible conversation.
What's the difference between a one-handed swipe and a one-handed button press? Only that the button press is more likely to happen in your pocket by accident.
Yes, the iPhone religion.
You really still keep on giving this device as something as a role model,
while it still fails to give a basic functionality.
This is very convinient indeed.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-22 09:58 ]
Posted by anonymuser
On 2009-04-22 10:56:10, doministry wrote:
This is very convinient indeed.
Isn't it just - convenient like not addressing any of the points raised in a debate and ranting on about "religions" is a convenient way to finish an argument you can't win, and defend a flawed product that's already failed. You go for it..
Posted by doministry
You still repeat the theories about a flawed product which just isn't flawed.
That's the problem.
It's for me like discussing why I'm a human, not a monkey.
And actually I don't care about defending since it's not a "war".
It's rather something I observe from your input here and there - no matter what we discuss,
fruit phone appears in the end. You just can't stop it?
I gave you all the possible input - if saying that a device and
it's solutions give a good and sufficient working environment is not valid,
but your missed points are - where are we?
What are we really discussing? Your 100% correct statements, right?
You don't even use the device yet have full set of opinions on it.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-22 11:30 ]
Posted by anonymuser
On 2009-04-22 12:27:40, doministry wrote:
You still repeat the theories about a flawed product which just isn't flawed.
That's the problem.
It's for me like discussing why I'm a human, not a monkey.
Are the panels on the production X1 "active" in the sense that the original panels concept was advertised and clearly intended to be by SE? Here's a clue - read the start of this thread - the answer is NO.
That, in itself, makes the X1 a flawed product.
Moving on from there, it's easy to argue that without that realtime updating of multiple at-a-glance desktops that might really have made the panels useful, the whole panels concept is flawed. It simply brings nothing to the table but added complication, and an uneccesary choice of 9 user interfaces (or in effect, 9 different takes on the same WM user interface) where one decent one would have done.
And that brings us back to what this conversation between us was originally about, before you got obsessed with the iPhone - the Touch Pro versus the X1, the fact that it really just comes down to software, and the fact that for many TouchFlo on the TP is a far superior WM add-on than the panels.
And actually I don't care about defending since it's not a "war".
It's rather something I observe from your input here and there - no matter what we discuss,
fruit phone appears in the end. You just can't stop it?
It's rather something I observe from your input here and there - no matter what we discuss,
fruit phone appears in the end. You just can't stop it?
I didn't start it. You chose to concentrate on my personal preference, rather than address the straight comparison between two WinMo phones we started with.
I gave you all the possible input - if saying that a device and
it's solutions give a good and sufficient working environment is not valid,
but your missed points are - where are we?
it's solutions give a good and sufficient working environment is not valid,
but your missed points are - where are we?
You've given nothing but a wall of opinion and waffle - and my "missed points" are simply those which you've ignored.
Posted by doministry
Moving on from there, it's easy to argue that without that realtime updating of multiple at-a-glance desktops that might really have made the panels useful, the whole panels concept is flawed. It simply brings nothing to the table but added complication, and an uneccesary choice of 9 user interfaces (or in effect, 9 different takes on the same WM user interface) where one decent one would have done.
And that brings us back to what this conversation between us was originally about, before you got obsessed with the iPhone - the Touch Pro versus the X1, the fact that it really just comes down to software, and the fact that for many TouchFlo on the TP is a far superior WM add-on than the panels.
How long this mantra will be repeated?
Don't you get it - it works and gives a great functionality?
Posted by anonymuser
What I've written above isn't a "mantra", it's a reasoned argument for why the Panels concept isn't that great.
An example of a mantra might be the repetition of a simple phrase like "it works and gives a great functionality" without actually giving anything to justify that.
Posted by doministry
On 2009-04-23 13:17:18, Boinng wrote:
What I've written above isn't a "mantra", it's a reasoned argument for why the Panels concept isn't that great.
An example of a mantra might be the repetition of a simple phrase like "it works and gives a great functionality" without actually giving anything to justify that.
"Isn't that great" is completely different than "flawed" or "gives nothing to the table".
While the first phrase is more of a personal feel, the other ones can be rather considered as objective statements. Which I argue with.
The arguments which "defend" my view are in my previous posting.
Maybe read carefully.
It gives you the required homescreens - with the favourite pattern or set of apps or plugins you need instantly - with the whole functionality of a smartphone under preserved and available instantly. So in front there's what ones like - pure wallpaper, calendar, set of apps, or other stuff like multimedia, on the road short action panel etc.
But it doesn't change the whole device's functional availability - it's available as always.
It works great,
and in opposition to all other manufacturers which basically offer just ONE homescreen/plugin environment availble at a time. Everything else is available through complicated setup process.
In reverse in X1 case you can SWITCH between homescreens in just a few seconds, without any "turn on/off" complicated actions.
It works simple as hell, with a dedicated button.
In my case - as I said as a valid point - I use 4 -5 different panels set to have the best functionality needed in my working/entertainment patterns.
So - I have no idea why this simple fact is not visible for you.
Especially when as you say - you used so many devices before.
P.S. The iPhone was brought by you, not me. You couldn't stop with "it triumphs this all" phrase. What for?
P.S.2 And of course some will hate panels - we live in the world of personal taste too.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2009-04-23 13:42 ]
Posted by Astral1
From what i read in the last few pages, i dont believe that Boing has actually used an X1 for longer than , say, 10 minutes in a shop, before making up these opinions.
I have to agree with Doministry, here. The X1 to me is incredibly versatile in the way that you can set up the panels .
Just my opinion, and i dont care about the i phone, before anyone starts.
Tried it for 2 weeks, and for me, its a pretty and slick piece of shite, that gets boring to use in a short time.
At the end of the day, every one will have a different opinion. Its horses for courses.
Posted by anonymuser
At the end of the day, I didn't start this thread asking where the "real" panels were - X1 owners did that.
I'm not an X1 owner and have never claimed to be. I know Windows Mobile very well, and I fully understand the (quite straightforward) concept of the panels in their current form. In my opinion they're simply not a great addition to WM, and going by the minimal impact the X1 has had on the WM market it's pretty clear I'm not alone in that opinion.
Perhaps we're all terribly misguided. But I don't think so.
Posted by MyP910
1. Hmm... I'm surprise to realise that I have the same feeling with Astra that Boing has never used X1 before.
2. To me, I like to panel concept and I used the panels a lot. I've changed between panels in a day to suit my environment.... and sometimes to change the mood.
3. I agree with doministry, that xperia is faster than iphone. I've tested and compared my xperia with my friend iphone. I'm using SE panel. I was accessing all the frequently used applications : sms, contact, email, calendar and phone. Both the phone can access all these applications in one touch. To my surprise, for contact, sms and emal, iphone took 1 second longer than xperia. for calendar and phone, both phone load at the same time.
4. btw, I would like to suggest boing to look at the poll/survey result in xda-developer websites regarding the most preferred/voted windows mobile phone. Don't you wonder why xperia is the most voted phone by a big margin ?
Posted by doministry
On 2009-05-03 00:19:47, MyP910 wrote:
1. Hmm... I'm surprise to realise that I have the same feeling with Astra that Boing has never used X1 before.
2. To me, I like to panel concept and I used the panels a lot. I've changed between panels in a day to suit my environment.... and sometimes to change the mood.
3. I agree with doministry, that xperia is faster than iphone. I've tested and compared my xperia with my friend iphone. I'm using SE panel. I was accessing all the frequently used applications : sms, contact, email, calendar and phone. Both the phone can access all these applications in one touch. To my surprise, for contact, sms and emal, iphone took 1 second longer than xperia. for calendar and phone, both phone load at the same time.
4. btw, I would like to suggest boing to look at the poll/survey result in xda-developer websites regarding the most preferred/voted windows mobile phone. Don't you wonder why xperia is the most voted phone by a big margin ?
Good points.
Posted by number2
Ok,
As ever i intend to be the nasty bastard here,
1) Panels are just an over complication, they dont, can never will never get around a good UI,
2) Personally im not an iphone lover but for f***s sake the simplicity of its UI deserves some credit, you ask the bloody thing to do something, and hey it happens.
3) I am now a WM user and my experience grows everyday, at the moment i have had almost 4 weeks with X1
2 weeks with IPhone, and now 6 weeks with Touch Pro.
Simplest, easy-est is the iphone. no question.
most efficient, for business user out of the three, Touch Pro, it works and oddly enough more business users choose HTC over SE X-1 as a platform, because they put function over form every f****ng day
Best by far device as a colourful phone with a great screen, but overly pointless UI, thats aimed squarely at the gamesters, youtube, video crowd, quite fashion concious, X-1 its flash, and if you really want to its probably great, but the panel thing, hard work pointless,pointless.
You can personalise so many panels, and for christ sakes ive tried, but the truth, and this WILL HURT, ONE GOOD UI WILL ALWAYS get the better of however many pretend UI panels.
Anyhow a bloke in a bar in Oban, Scotland for you that dont know, once told me the following,
IF YOU STOP STIRRING IT STICKS!
good luck.
[ This Message was edited by: number2 on 2009-06-05 22:56 ]
Posted by doministry
On 2009-06-05 23:55:00, number2 wrote:
Ok,
As ever i intend to be the nasty bastard here,
1) Panels are just an over complication, they dont, can never will never get around a good UI,
2) Personally im not an iphone lover but for f***s sake the simplicity of its UI deserves some credit, you ask the bloody thing to do something, and hey it happens.
3) I am now a WM user and my experience grows everyday, at the moment i have had almost 4 weeks with X1
2 weeks with IPhone, and now 6 weeks with Touch Pro.
Simplest, easy-est is the iphone. no question.
most efficient, for business user out of the three, Touch Pro, it works and oddly enough more business users choose HTC over SE X-1 as a platform, because they put function over form every f****ng day
Best by far device as a colourful phone with a great screen, but overly pointless UI, thats aimed squarely at the gamesters, youtube, video crowd, quite fashion concious, X-1 its flash, and if you really want to its probably great, but the panel thing, hard work pointless,pointless.
You can personalise so many panels, and for christ sakes ive tried, but the truth, and this WILL HURT, ONE GOOD UI WILL ALWAYS get the better of however many pretend UI panels.
Anyhow a bloke in a bar in Oban, Scotland for you that dont know, once told me the following,
IF YOU STOP STIRRING IT STICKS!
good luck.
[ This Message was edited by: number2 on 2009-06-05 22:56 ]
That's of course your opinion. I get your points.
See, my habits and usage patterns make me love panels, and SE panel is simply the
best UI I can have. There's nothing overcomplicated there for me...
iPhone UI for me is a pure cr..ap - just a apps shortcuts,
I mean too much limitation.
Posted by number2
In so many ways i agree with you re iphone, but with such great sales behind it the simplicity of the UI for the majority of its users must be one its big attractions, i cant comment on other makes and devices except for Blackberry, my company gave me one for work and a returned it after 2 weeks, my views on the X-1 and Touch pro are as ever my opinions, and i fully respect those who choose it, but it wasnt for me, however i do acknowledge that some of its features are an improvement over my touch pro, if only these companies would field test their devices with real customers first.
Posted by WhyBe
I think companies got used to making devices "good enough" for the users, instead of "great". Then Apple came along and made things "great" with lesser features and hardware. Apple won on the intangible features that aren't listed on spec sheets. With the new faster 3G S hitting the markets, their user-experience is going to get even better and the competitors haven't even caught up to the old 3G. I hope MS has it's s**t together with WM7...
On the long term, I'm wondering how long Apple can keep it up? They have painted themselves into a corner by stagnating their hardware advances. Too many changes to the iPhone hardware (such as higher-res screen or keyboard or more system memory) will segment their development community in the same way WM has with it many varieties of WM phone. I'm sure Apple isn't going for that. Doing so would destroy their ever-important killer feature--user-experience.
[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2009-06-11 17:13 ]