Posted by Nitro Fan
I have like many others been looking hard at the X1 but the more I look the more convinced I am that it is a bit like the kings new clothes, lots of fuss and hype ("Johnny X", "Panels" it own Blog! etc) but when you actually look at it its just a WM phone and from the videos I have seen not a particularly fast one at that.
I have a P1 Original Sim Free (up for sale soon!) and a Vodafone W960 and I have to say the W960 is one of the best phones I have ever owned (Apart from the creaky back that is!) it does everything I ask of it perfectly if it had a joy stick or pad it and 16Gb it would be just about perfect.
But I hear nothing regards future Symbian devices from
I personally do not get on well with the P1 keyboard so I am more interested in the W960 kind of layout but what is happening is the X1 the end of the line for Symbian (apart from that horrible new Walkman music flipper) and where are the promised P990 replacements we were assured were comming?
Posted by makbil
Things have changed a lot. Nokia has effectively put an end to UIQ, so if SE ever decides to continue with Symbian, it has to have S60 at its base code.
I don't believe SE is capable of adapting to this new situation as fast as we would like. Having a WM device built under the SE logo by a competitor was not the smartest decision in my opinion. Up to now SE had an advantage (and used it to ask for higher prices) because they had different devices. Now that they are just one of the many devices in the block I fail to see how they can survive.
There is a bumpy road ahead of SE, I hope they can survive and make a good come back to once again give us the exceptional devices we have come to associate with them.
Posted by anonymuser
Agreed with Makbil, I don't think this a very happy phase for SE particularly in the smartphone segment, and I don't see them ever really regaining the edge here that they once had. UIQ was their baby, but they mishandled it badly in recent years, and Nokia always had the upper hand through their ownership of Symbian anyway. Without UIQ, SE can only be just another Windows Mobile maker (or rebadger at least), or perhaps just another S60 brand, or just another Android provider... they'll have to work extremely hard and move extremely quickly to really differentiate their products against the competition, and I don't get the sense they're in any kind of a state to do that.
The X1, when it comes down to it, is just another HTC-built Windows Mobile device. The SE-inspired touches are certainly there, and it looks like a nice product, but it's just one WM phone in a sea of very similar WM phones at the end of the day.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-10-03 11:48 ]
Posted by ares
Just look to the new Nokiaīs Tube UI, and compare it to UIQ touch preview on uiq.com...and you get even more the impression that SE blew it, and destroyed the better Symbian GUI
Posted by Nitro Fan
Hmm that makes depressing reading, whilst I am often critical of
for their appalling build quality and seeming lack of SW testing, my current W960 is one of the best phones I have ever used. It does rather leave those of us who like the Symbian block form phones with a dilema do we hang on in the hope that will release a follow on device to the P1 and the W960 OR do we see what the X1 offers.
I watched an "unboxing" clip of the X1 and it was running like a dog so much so, that my colleague who is NOT in any way a "phone head" was watching the X1 doing its stuff said and I quote "Ha thats what is wrong with animated menus they run too slowly to be any good" I just hope that it is fixed in the final retail versions (I am not laying out good money on SIM free
devices anymore they are simply not worth it anymore)
Posted by tranced
edited: i confused the names. sorry.
I was reading that nokia "gave up on symbian".
G502 and G705 are not uiq and they were supposed to be smartphones, weren't they?
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[ This Message was edited by: tranced on 2008-10-03 14:26 ]
Posted by ares
nokia gave up on symbian??? thats bs
and balmer is from m$
Posted by raduci
There is still some unexpected help from Nokia, since they decided not to support Blackberry connect on the new E-series. This leaves SE as the only producer of Symbian phones with Blackberry connect, and a good choice for the former E-series owner (like myself).
Let's see if they can take advantage of this situation !
Posted by tranced
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Posted by Karun
@nitro fan
some xperia x1 prototypes out there still have the older RAM chips. the final retail version has 384 MB RAM. So I think the retail version will be a lot faster
@Ares
I totally agree with you on this. We all know which one is the superior symbian GUI.
@makbil
Actually, SE stopped coming out with unique devices post P990. Am sure there will be those who won't agree but if you look at it, the newer handsets like W960 and P1, though being good handsets, aren't actually something you can call exceptional. The G900/G700 are very good smartphones , but they arrived too late. SE was almost done with UIQ when they were launched.
btw....I've just posted an analysis as to 'what went wrong with UIQ'. I'd appreciate it if you all share your views about the same.
http://seloyalist.blogspot.com/2008/10/uiq-what-went-wrong.html
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[ This Message was edited by: kurt_karun on 2008-10-03 12:53 ]
Posted by anonymuser
On 2008-10-03 13:52:24, kurt_karun wrote:
btw....I've just posted an analysis as to 'what went wrong with UIQ'. I'd appreciate it if you all share your views about the same.
http://seloyalist.blogspot.com/2008/10/uiq-what-went-wrong.html
I can't agree with this bit really -
The P900 wasn't too different from its predecessor, although the design was much more refined. The P910 can be called a breakthrough though, as it had a superior function set.
I think in reality, the P910 was actually far too similar to the P900, while the P900 was little more than a P800 in a new suit. What really happened here, for three years, was that SE rested on its laurels with the UIQ2 range, or at least didn't put sufficient resources into developing them - they simply marketed almost exactly the same hardware, for three years, solely as a "niche" high-end device.
The breakthrough in the UIQ line was that first handset - the P800. The P910's "superior function set" amounted to nothing that the P800 or P900 couldn't also do, with the right software added, because they were all essentially the same phone.
A truly successful series would have built much more quickly and more substantially on that P800 platform back in 2003-04 when it was a success and so unlike anything else on the market at the time. They could have taken that original technology and done an Iphone with it, pushing that stable touch-based UI to a much wider audience, years before Apple even dreamt of it. Instead the line simply stagnated, to be replaced by an underdeveloped and unstable UIQ3 that completely threw away the market UIQ2 had built up, with no software compatibility, little UI commonality, and very poor implementation on the P990 etc. It was a complete mess from the P990 onwards, and personally I really don't mourn UIQ3 at all.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-10-03 14:16 ]
Posted by tranced
read something here:
Nokia has recently bought out Symbian and intends to make it an open source platform in order to better compete against current mobile OS. It’s surprising to see Russell Beattie, Strategic Technology Marketing Manager, Nokia Corporation, write on his personal journal that “Me personally, however, I gave up on Symbian a few years ago, and am still not convinced that it's a viable platform for the future.”
http://www.mobiletopsoft.com/[....]kia-says-symbian-will-die.html
Posted by ares
well...i do
and it wasnīt a mess from the P990 onwards...the P990 was THE MESS...P1, W960, g700, g900 were good products from the beggining, and the UI also evolved
And that was also getting even better with UIQ 3.3, as far as we can tell, and with the next UIQ 4 aka UIQ touch...
However, without hardware upgrades from SE, that would mean nothing
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Just putting this out there, and I would never even pretend to know a lot about software, etc. And I have never used a UIQ phone before, though have always been very tempted to buy one. Anyway...
With the Symbian Foundation, of which SE is a member, it is obvious that we will see Symbian phones from SE in the future at some stage. It is increasingly likely that we won't ever see a UIQ phone again as we know them today. It wouldn't be wise for SE to make another UIQ phone because the Symbian Foundation platform will only be backwards compatible with S60.
But Motorola and SE both joint own UIQ right? After all UIQ's assets have been handed over to the Symbian Foundation, UIQ will what...? Just vanish? With the way the UIQ website is being kept up to date, and the way they're pumping out new concepts, I somewhat doubt it.
With the Symbian Foundation, obviously the manufacturers will put their own stamp onto the platform right? For example, SE will make it look like an SE platform with their own icons, applications, etc. So who's gonna do that? What I'm thinking is that maybe UIQ will handle that for SE and Motorola! I wonder, maybe then they could call it Symbian with UIQ or something along those lines, and they could make it pretty similar to the UIQ we are all used to and love.
That's just something I've been pondering over the last few days, and its all speculation based on what I read.
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[ This Message was edited by: Muhammad-Oli on 2008-10-03 14:39 ]
Posted by ares
Thatīs also my only hope...that they put UIQ engineers making the UI for SEīs version of the Symbian Foundation OS
Posted by Nitro Fan
Does the latest incarnation of Symbian support touch screens?
Posted by Jimster71
There won't be an SE version of the symbian foundation platform, there will just be the one platform for all. They will probably change the look and feel and have some of their own apps, but it's still the same platform.
Version 5 of the S60 platform does have touch. Not sure how much of that is from symbian - but they will all soon be nokia employees at symbian anyway.
Posted by ares
You are not getting it...when people say SE version on symbian foundation, is just the UI...both Motorola and SE use UIQ3.x, but the UI is different
Same goes for Nokia, Samsung and LG regarding s60 v3...
Posted by Dups!
@ares and Muhammad-Oli
I do hope we get to see that from SE. It would be some sort of consolation to those of us who got accustomed to UIQ. Honestly, and like ares mentioned, UIQ is the better OS compared to S60. Unfortunately...
Posted by Karun
@Boing
There's a reason for me saying that. This is because, with the P990, SE did not enjoy the safety margin as it had with its previous smartphones. Now its rivals were matching its every move. The P990 itself was such a mess, as Ares rightfully pointed out!
@Ares
I agree with you. That's the only hope that I have too. But with the news that SE's symbian developers are leaving too, things don't look pretty good.
I wish we could just have atleast one more handset based on UIQ touch from SE. the prototype concepts look so cool on their site!
Posted by djin
Imo, Most of the people here are misinformed. Symbian Foundation in no way is a doom for Se. Symbian has always been an OS which is customised according to the Manufacturer. So when the new symbian's os is out, SE can tweak it to the way SE has been with UIQ.
Symbian Foundation, has a lot of advantage to SE, rather than just sticking with just UIQ. The new Os could just be like Windows PC. YOu got all the programmes running for PC made by different Manufacturers. So that could mean, sisx and sis would become one, and then those people who used to stick with UIQ would finally get lots of applications, without sacrificing their brand loyalty or the UI.
Posted by Karun
@djin
Nobody here is misinformed
We all know what SF is and what it brings with it.
But if you read between the lines, you'll perhaps notice that SF will be based on Nokia's S60. SE will now also adopt the same. UIQ is history as far as SE is concerned.
I don't know if you've noticed, but UIQ touch ( check out the prototype concepts on their site) is just way more cooler than what nokia is offering with its tube UI.
Posted by djin
I do know that SF is based on symbian os and s60, but it will have some stuffs from UIQ and MOAP.
Of course, UIQ will be history when symbian foundation's released, so does any other variant of symbian(s60, etc.).
UI is not a big problem, and i do think the UI of SF would be much better than the present s60. Also SE could customize the UI for their company. So UI is not a big problem.
Now what do people want more, 10000+ application with which they could actually even customise most of the part of their UI, or just stick with UIQ and get stuck with their great UI and not many application?
So i fully support SF, and the move by Nokia,SE and other company's.
Posted by Nitro Fan
OK I think we have established that what most people here call SE Symbian merely refers to the GUI which in the case of
is UIQ3.
But what I want to know is, has the symbian foundation effectively made S60 the sole GUI supported by Symbian?
Or will UIQ3 continue to be a usable interface with the latest versions of the Symbian SW.
If this is the case, does S60 support touch screen operation? it would be a shame to see the end of touch screen handsets
Posted by djin
It should support touch interface, as the new s60 does(which is there in 5800).
The UI, is really upto Se, how they want it in their phones. So far i dont really know the limitations of SF regarding the UI.
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2008-10-04 13:37:32, djin wrote:
It should support touch interface, as the new s60 does(which is there in 5800).
The UI, is really upto Se, how they want it in their phones. So far i dont really know the limitations of SF regarding the UI.
Hi djin,
Thank you for your reply,
So there is no real reason to assume that
is unlikely to produce any further "Symbian" devices assuming they device to use the S60 interface.
Is it however reasonable to assume that
is unlikely to develop any further UIQ3 Symbian devices?
Posted by Karun
the core of the new SF platform will be based on S60. Some parts of UIQ may be added, but its basically S60 all the way. And all S60 apps will be supported. But there are so many things that was unique about UIQ that'll be lost.
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2008-10-04 15:00:25, kurt_karun wrote:
the core of the new SF platform will be based on S60. Some parts of UIQ may be added, but its basically S60 all the way. And all S60 apps will be supported. But there are so many things that was unique about UIQ that'll be lost.
OK, that was along way round to a simple answer thank you!
As for UIQ shame but
really do only have themselves to blame they had a golden opportunity they grabbed the market lead with the P800, but instead of knuckling down and capitalising on their lead they frittered it away with arrogance.
Reminds me of the Betamax V VHS saga of the 80's and surprise surprise hey that was Sony as well!
Posted by djin
Nitro, there is no point for SE to release any more UIQ3 based phones, and with the new rumour, if its true, they already got the SF based device being prepared for next year, and hopefully with the UI of SE, it should be great, the real competition has just started, and its ,in the long term, is a good decision, because that would bring out more functionality to se's symbian phones.
Also, the new standard, blu ray was also set by sony(ofcourse with the help of other 100's of company's)
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2008-10-05 00:43:30, djin wrote:
Nitro, there is no point for SE to release any more UIQ3 based phones, and with the new rumour, if its true, they already got the SF based device being prepared for next year, and hopefully with the UI of SE, it should be great, the real competition has just started, and its ,in the long term, is a good decision, because that would bring out more functionality to se's symbian phones.
Also, the new standard, blu ray was also set by sony(ofcourse with the help of other 100's of company's)
I think you will find it was the movie industry that made BluRay the defacto standard
Posted by djin
Yes, but sony made blu ray possible and successful , with its Ps3. The industry just jumped ship from hd-dvd to blu ray, thanks to ps3, which increased demand for blu ray.
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2008-10-06 13:47:01, djin wrote:
Yes, but sony made blu ray possible and successful , with its Ps3. The industry just jumped ship from hd-dvd to blu ray, thanks to ps3, which increased demand for blu ray.
Fair Point
Posted by Jimster71
The SF material states that UIQ is added to the foundation as reference. When the SF starts up it will just be S60 under another name. Things will change as new features are developed and the foundation matures but the initial set of SF devices will pretty much be S60 devices.
Posted by djin
HEre, its an interview with the symbian CEO,
http://www.a site.com/[....]el_clifford_ceo_of_symbian.htm
Its a good read.
Posted by Falcon786
Well i think this new SF is gonna be much better for us consumers as more resources will be channelled into making things compatible across the board.kinda reminds me how that from when moto launched the microsd memory card on the e1000 and i always hoped the other manufacturers would catch up so that it makes my life easier...they did eventually and now buying a memory card is a breeze...no confusion and compatibility issues...except for SE who are still trying to force their profits by supporting only their own cards.
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2008-10-07 11:00:50, Jimster71 wrote:
The SF material states that UIQ is added to the foundation as reference. When the SF starts up it will just be S60 under another name. Things will change as new features are developed and the foundation matures but the initial set of SF devices will pretty much be S60 devices.
Thanks for your reply but what on earth do they mean by this "UIQ is added to the foundation as reference" talk about babble!
I think what is being said is that there will only be one Symbian user interface and that will be S60 with touch screen capabilities is that correct?
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2008-10-08 14:11:58, Falcon786 wrote:
Well i think this new SF is gonna be much better for us consumers as more resources will be channelled into making things compatible across the board.kinda reminds me how that from when moto launched the microsd memory card on the e1000 and i always hoped the other manufacturers would catch up so that it makes my life easier...they did eventually and now buying a memory card is a breeze...no confusion and compatibility issues...except for SE who are still trying to force their profits by supporting only their own cards.
Here Here well said