Posted by ares
On 2008-08-18 01:06:23, Dicky Snapples wrote:
On 2008-08-18 01:00:47, carkitter wrote:
;just irritating really and we don't need it.
if thats the case why has he won best debater two years running ....
I also would like to know that...is this the theme of the new X-files movie??? Because its unexplanable for me
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-08-18 17:00:12, Brightspark wrote:
@EMS06
"They were the first in many features that they ignored later,ie, wifi (P990i), QVGA 30fps (W900i), fisrt mp cam phone, etc. "
the p990i wasn't the first wi-fi phone. the moto mpx had wi-fi, and that was released in 2004.
SE didn't release the first gsm MP phone. the world's first megapixel phone was the j-phone in 2003. on gsm, it was the sharp gx30.
the w900 was not the first phone with QVGA 30fps. the xcute dv1 did vga video recording at 30fps in 2005
SE have never ever done anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers. they're not an innovative company.
where are you getting your information from on these dodgy and inaccurate facts and figures?
"the point is SE has become the follower."
they always have been
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2008-08-18 16:04 ]
You miss the point. They may not have been the first but often they were responsible for popularising these things. For example even though they weren't the first to incorporate mp3 playing, they popularised it with the walkman phones. Due to the walkman branding, they have legitimised mp3 players as phones.
They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750)
They have also innovated on the j2me front, bringing jsr's first to market and including more jsr's earlier than mosts other oem's (java multi-tasking, jsr-75 to name a couple). Not to mention the first to offer task management via activity menu on a non-smartphone.
They also innovated in formfactors: swivel, the curved slide of the x1, P1 keyboard, acelerometer based controls.
Other factors such as light sensitive display adjustment, which not necessarily the first to market, among the first.
They may follow in some areas but they lead in others. Maybe you should check your own information, it's no better than EMS06's
Posted by Ruudfood
I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing!
Posted by Brightspark
"You miss the point. They may not have been the first but often they were responsible for popularising these things. For example even though they weren't the first to incorporate mp3 playing, they popularised it with the walkman phones. Due to the walkman branding, they have legitimised mp3 players as phones.
They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. "
i haven't missed the point at all. what makes you think the other manufacturers were responding to SE? isn't that just your assumption without anything of substance to back it up?
"They have also innovated on the j2me front, bringing jsr's first to market and including more jsr's earlier than mosts other oem's (java multi-tasking, jsr-75 to name a couple). Not to mention the first to offer task management via activity menu on a non-smartphone."
thats not innovation. it's called using a separate chip for java.
"Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750) "
nope. try again. docomo did that.
"They also innovated in formfactors: swivel, the curved slide of the x1, P1 keyboard, acelerometer based controls."
wow! you really believe this rubbish don't you? motorola did the first swivel
like i say, SE never did anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers.
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2008-08-18 17:12 ]
Posted by aw614
They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750)
I think the sharp 902sh came before the k750, granted it has camera issues, but an older phone with af and optical zoom
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-08-18 18:02:18, Brightspark wrote:
i haven't missed the point at all. what makes you think the other manufacturers were responding to SE? isn't that just your assumption without anything of substance to back it up?
because there was a growth in these areas directly after SE started to push in that area. Maybe SE wasn't responsible for kick starting the market (though it seems clear to me) but they were the first to see the full potential of camera phones and music phones. - it's clear and if you can't see it you are blind. Whether they inspired other manufacturers or not it's clear SE were the first to grasp the full market potential of dedicated music and camera handets.
nope. try again. docomo did that.
so a japanese only company was first with AF? so what. If it wasn't for SE taking the initiative in the western market it wouldn't have happened till several years later.
(not to mention SE innovation in J2ME which you didn't bother to argue with for obvious reason)
wow! you really believe this rubbish don't you? motorola did the first swivel
so I stand corrected. But who remembers the motorola?? Again the formfactor is more popular in SE hands.
like i say, SE never did anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers.
All oem's today have followed SE on j2me implementations, Nokia has brought out music branded phones only after SE brought out walkman phones, Nokia brought out AF based phones not after docomo but after SE did so.
_________________
Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:24 ]
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-08-18 17:55:01, Ruudfood wrote:
I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing!
W910, K850, Z750, K660, W980 and several more that I can't think of currently.....
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:25 ]
Posted by Ruudfood
On 2008-08-18 19:31:06, max_wedge wrote:
On 2008-08-18 17:55:01, Ruudfood wrote:
I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing!
W910, K850, Z750, K660, W980 and several more that I can't think of currently.....
_________________
Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:25 ]
Sorry, I meant BUSINESS phone
Posted by carkitter
You guys may have seen me mention this in the X1 thread but I think it's particularly relevant here and puts SE's prformance in a new light.
"The shape of the smartphone and mobile data markets"
As you can see from the 2nd diagram the market for basic voice/text handsets is massive (approx 65%) and we know it's growing very quickly due to the developing markets in China, India, Africa and Latin America.
The remaining 35% is shrinking. It could be due to any combination of factors such as Developed countries being in recession ATM, reduced disposable income due to high fuel and food prices, perhaps the high spec of current phones has left people satisfied and unwilling to upgrade, maybe some poeple held off while waiting to see what the iPhone 3G looked like? Before you laugh, remember Apple sold 1 Million of the version 2 in 3 days...
Anyway, the research shows that
and Cybershot phones are in competition with everything from ROKR and iPhone to Blackberry and WM devices and that the much requested All-In-One devices are doomed to commercial failure in the Zone of Death. As I've said before, SE are not far from returning to success, they just need a new approach. New good-looking phones, gaming phones, addition of improved audio in models, more smartphones than ever before, some high spec flagship models (W902, C905) should arrest the slide IMO as people WILL pay extra for these things but not for things like HSDPA, Shake control and Track ID as SE though they would in the past.
I don't know alot about the redundancies but I'll speculate some are UIQ employees no longer needed due to the Symbian Foundation (not caused by SE's performance) while the others are probably due to the mid/high end market shrinkage. I mean, how hard it is to make more low end phones (SE's stated aim, working alongside Sagem) compared to mid/high end phones. It's no wonder they find themselves with excess staff.
_________________
Voted Best Phone Review Esato Awards 2008!
[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-08-19 13:05 ]
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-08-19 12:54:58, Ruudfood wrote:
Sorry, I meant BUSINESS phone
no worries. It's true no qwerty business phone has it, though G900 does. I think that at the time of the P1 (and W960, though not strictly a business phone) HSDPA on the UIQ platform was still not possible (or practical cost wise).
Now G900 is upon us and UIQ now has HSDPA, I expect the next SE UIQ business phone (if the rumours aren't true about UIQ disappearing) will have it. I think it's an issue of timing: SE just weren't ready for HSDPA when they brought out the P1.
If there is to be no more UIQ, then the next SE business phone will be a WM device imho (although I guess there is a VERY slim chance it could be s60). Whatever it is it will have HSDPA
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
The G900 doesn't have HSDPA...
Posted by anonymuser
The G900 is a real wet weekend, a poor man's P1 released about three years too late, based on an OS which is now obsolete. It's frankly pathetic that right now, it's the only smartphone SE have released this year (and may yet remain so).
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all,
Its quite incredible to me some of the misconceptions that have arisen in this thread now. First and foremost i am and was an Ericsson fan i chose their devices over all others because of the quality they delivered in their handsets and also the cutting edge technologies they introduced. I suppose most here don't even remember all the things that Ericsson bought to our devices and just take all these features for granted now.
Ericsson where first to market with the first PDA/phone combo which was the beginning of the emergence of the smart phone as we know it today. There were no devices like the P800 before it there were only PDA's that could link up to Mobiles.
The joining of forces of Ericsson technical know how and Sony's marketing and design was meant to be match made in heaven and for a while it was. Initially SE continued with this heritage and is why we continued to see SE offer great devices and growth in sales and market share.
My problem with SE only started in 2006 and I'm not going to repeat it all again now, but since then for calling it as i see it i have constantly been accused of being an SE hater or traitor for daring chose products that deliver what i want and need. I call that being sensible and a pro consumer the fact that most of the things i have complained about still haven't been addressed even now 2 years later IMO is why SE are in the mess they are in.
Since the P990 and UIQ3 SE still have not introduced a single smart phone with an improved Processor and graphics set up nor one with HSDPA. Even there latest Web generation smart phones don't have it, HSDPA is a wide spread feature and costs the user no more than using 3G data, but delivers huge improvements in speed. It is in all types of devices even those from SE just not in their data centric smart phones just how can that make any sense? as clearly it doesn't.
That fact alone is why myself and many others have not been able to buy an SE smart phone for so long. So where once Ericsson/SE led they are currently way behind all the competition in both choice and high end devices. As whilst they may have smart phones for some they do not have them for all, anyone like me that wants HSDPA which we can use for the same price from our Networks as plain 3G can not chose a SE smart phone.
Also the way SE treated their users that were early adopters of UIQ3 was disgraceful including withdrawing support for under a year old device. If it was just UIQ3 that got this treatment it would of been bad enough but unfortunately it wasn't A200 users have also suffered a similar fate.
The K850 SE's flagship Cyber shot failed to deliver on it's promise and where as before they had all been class leading Camera phones this was no longer true. Just look at the K850 that some 10 months odd later still has reported problems. Look at all the users that have had multiple units and worse how many users dumped the K850 and are using another manufacturers product.
These are the things that have hurt SE and it shows in their market position and drop in profits. Despite what SE and some of their users claim they are missing high end and even mid end solutions, to many devices that are just cosmetically changed with no real upgrade in the hardware has started to hurt SE.
Those that criticise SE don't do it with hate it's not because we are all Nokia fans it's because we want to see SE return to where it was or maybe even higher. But remaining silent and congratulating SE on a job badly done isn't the way to help them, unfortunately trying to give them feedback doesn't seem to work either. Things need to change and change fast as the market is ever changing and SE's competition aren't standing still either.
@Ares
You know what i was stunned i won the title the first time and even more shocked that i won it again. The only explanation i can think of is obviously many understand what i am trying to put across. Unlike you they don't believe i hate SE and find what i say actually makes sense as it's only really hardened SE fans that take exception to my opinions.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-08-19 14:42 ]
Posted by skblakee
Dogmann you are spot on. I never ever thought that I would buy a Nokia. I always saw Nokia as an inferior product to
Now its the opposite and it all started going down with the debacle of the P990.
They don't even seem to care too much either. Whilst Nokia keeps pushing back at the competition including from Apple
seems to have conceded to being fifth.
Posted by Bonovox
I agree i loved the Ericsson days and remember how they bought new tech to the market. Hey they invented Bluetooth. And when Sony married Ericsson it was all new and exciting with fab phones. For some reason they have gone off the boil and its a shame. I do love Nokia too just as much but for a long time many years back i mostly bought SE.
Posted by Bonovox
Actually was it SE who made the first landscaped phone camera
Posted by 843
What's passed is in the past. No matter how many innovations SE had done in the past, people will eventually forget them and move on. If SE can't keep up with competition, it's doomed. This goes for every monopolistic competitions, not just mobile phones. The market, the customers will decide what's good for them. If SE phones are deemed inferior to other products, they will move to another brand, save for the minority of hardcore fanboys.
Mobile phone competition is tough and stressful as technology evolves at a tremendous speed and it's not something to be trifled with. If SE doesn't do some catching up and continues to ignore feedbacks and criticisms as well as churning out half-baked products, it'll be gone in a flash. If the current trend keeps up, some day it'll no longer be Sony Ericsson, it'll just be Sony.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-08-19 14:22:32, Muhammad-Oli wrote:
The G900 doesn't have HSDPA...
yeah you are right I had a brain fart - I was mixing up with the C905 (which isn't UIQ)
Maybe UIQ really is dead? If they haven't put HSDPA in by now, given all the A200's with HSDPA, something is going on...
Posted by Bonovox
Well i think both companies are to blame not just Sony. I remember Sony's old phones were crap. I also remember they teamed up wit Ericsson cos both companies were doing poorly in the phone market. They both needed each others expertise now they have lost the plot.
Posted by goldenface
On the contrary, I think they're are victims of circumstance. There is a recession in Europe, a lot of hi-tech companies are struggling, especially chip manufacturers.
Plus, its looks to me like a few devices were taken off the road map with the formation of the Symbian Foundation leaving SE with a shortage of key devices. Q3 will probably show SE with a financial loss but things wil probably be better in Q4 with the release of the C905 and W902 which will be big sellers. The G705 looks promising also.
Posted by carkitter
I agree with all of that Goldenface, well said!
Posted by anonymuser
On 2008-08-19 16:52:36, max_wedge wrote:
Maybe UIQ really is dead? If they haven't put HSDPA in by now, given all the A200's with HSDPA, something is going on...
No maybe about it, UIQ is stone dead. The announcement was effectively made when the Symbian Foundation was formed, but in reality it was smelling pretty bad for a long time before that.
There's been no significant development of the platform since the P990, merely repackaging.
Posted by 10123
On 2008-08-20 13:20:54, Boinng wrote:
On 2008-08-19 16:52:36, max_wedge wrote:
Maybe UIQ really is dead? If they haven't put HSDPA in by now, given all the A200's with HSDPA, something is going on...
No maybe about it, UIQ is stone dead. The announcement was effectively made when the Symbian Foundation was formed, but in reality it was smelling pretty bad for a long time before that.
There's been no significant development of the platform since the P990, merely repackaging.
How do you know this, the COULD suprise us, like they did with the experia:D
Posted by max_wedge
I missed the announcement, have been out of the mobile phone industry for a couple of months, but yes it's true UIQ hasn't seen any development since P990 so I guess it's not surprising.
Just checked out the Symbian Foundation, it actually looks promising tbh. Cheap membership and open licencing should encourage industry wide participation.
Explains why SE aren't developing for UIQ - no point in putting a lot of energy into an interface that may not have an OS to run on after 2009. However does this mean Nokia will also be developing a new interface also, or are they going their own way with the existing symbian?
Posted by anonymuser
The Symbian Foundation is working towards a single, unified Symbian OS and UI to be launched in about two years time - meaning there will be no more S60 or UIQ, only Symbian.
Unsurprisingly, the Nokia owned Symbian Foundation has made it clear to developers that this future version will be fully compatible with existing S60 apps that they may be developing now. In other words, S60 is the base for this new unified Symbian. While it's possible that some elements of UIQ may also be integrated, UIQ as a base UI has effectively ceased to be, and any UIQ apps being developed now will not work on the new Symbian (with the upshot being that third party development for UIQ is bound to die off very quickly).
All this has been underlined by the laying off of virtually all UIQ's current workforce, within hours of the Symbian Foundation announcement.
Proud new owners of the G900 don't have an awful lot to look forward to I'm afraid (other than the dubious honour of owning SE's last UIQ phone, most probably).
Posted by max_wedge
Well there was never a great choice in software for UIQ anyway.
Symbian Foundation is non-profit, and Nokia will be buying out existing shares of symbian and gifting the whole kit and kaboodle to the Symbian Foundation. Since the licencing is royalty free, and membership is only $1500 per year, who pays for development and how do they get paid back?
I also wonder, will there be different UI's, or the means for an OEM to design their own interface? I mean, won't OEM's want some means of personalising and differentiating their products from other OEM's?
Thanks for your input
Posted by anonymuser
Symbian Foundation is non-profit, and Nokia will be buying out existing shares of symbian and gifting the whole kit and kaboodle to the Symbian Foundation. Since the licencing is royalty free, and membership is only $1500 per year, who pays for development and how do they get paid back?
Put it this way - those working for the Foundation will be (and are) employees of Nokia.
I also wonder, will there be different UI's, or the means for an OEM to design their own interface? I mean, won't OEM's want some means of personalising and differentiating their products from other OEM's?
I'm sure there will be a layer of branding and customisation available, but the point of bringing the whole Symbian eco-system under one roof is to standardise on one UI, and one platform. A Nokia Symbian phone will be 100% software compatible with an SE Symbian phone, or a Samsung Symbian phone, etc etc - an app developed for one will work on all the others. Right now, that means that any recent S60 app is guaranteed to work, while anything developed for UIQ is basically a dead-end.
I've no idead who (other than Nokia) will actually be releasing these phones. Obviously there are any number of members of the Foundation already, but then it's very cheap to join - whether SE for example are actually planning future Symbian phones is anyone's guess.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-08-20 13:51 ]
Posted by max_wedge
So if Nokia pays for development, why are they giving it away for free to competitors?
The reason I'm asking these questions, is I'm trying to understand will this be a true multi-partite industry effort, or will development directions be strong armed by Nokia to suit their own market directions and strategies (as they were doing with Symbian previously - and arguably the reason SE departed a couple of years ago with UIQ in an obviously failed effort to go their own way)
If this is an attempt to develop a truly open industry standard mobile os with cross platform application support then it would be a good thing. But I'm cynical that this will happen.
Posted by carkitter
On 2008-08-20 15:02:28, max_wedge wrote:
So if Nokia pays for development, why are they giving it away for free to competitors?
So they don't get wiped out but Google's Android and also to put pressure on the iPhone SDK. Smart move IMO
Posted by max_wedge
So do members get input into development, or will it be Nokia centric?
If it's too stacked towards Nokia's market needs, they may discourage uptake.
Still, it's got potential and it would be awesome to see a true industry standard OS emerge, especially from an application point of view. It's the only chance really of competing realistically with WM as an application platform.
Anyway, whether SE go with WM or this new platform, or a bit of both, I don't think they are in danger of fading out. They will adapt one way or the other.
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all,
I really think it is about consolidating and maintaining there market lead more than worrying about brand new or existing OS's after all Symbian is Number 1 by quite some way.
Also i would imagine that some elements of the UIQ UI will find it's way into the new generation of Touchscreen devices although just how much of an influence it will have is anyones guess right now.
I really don't see how something that is still quite away off from launch stopped SE from releasing the UIQ devices it had worked on. There life span would of expired before the Symbian Foundations new devices launched.
I think SE canned their planned UIQ devices due to them not be up to what the market and users expected late 2008 in their devices and less to do with the formation of the Symbian Foundation.
I think Android really is still a big unknown and although looks interesting we will need to see what it delivers before reaching any conclusions. Same goes for WM7 and even Nokia's Touch UI. But with the next gen of processors and graphics coming on line soon we can all expect much more from our devices in the future and not that far away now.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-08-20 16:49 ]
Posted by aw614
On 2008-08-19 16:08:00, Bonovox wrote:
Actually was it SE who made the first landscaped phone camera
not sure, i know it came out with the 505i series in docomo, probably first, since panasonic released the p505is with the 505is series which was the mid season updates, where the so505is came out, but so505i was before the so505is
Posted by carkitter
Remember Microsft vs Netscape Navigator? Microsoft made it's money from windows so it could afford to develop and give away Internet Explorer. Netscape had no other revenue stream.
I think Nokia are taking on Apple and WM by following Google into the Open OS market therefore cutting of a revenue stream for Microsoft and Apple and encouraging Developers to use the technology the Mobile Manufacturer's want to use instead of Google's new plan for world domination.
Apple, Microsoft and Google are big players on the world scene. Nokia wouldn't want them rewriting the rulebook, remember the issues Nokia had using Qualcomm's patents?
Posted by max_wedge
I think you may be on to something there. But remember also how Microsoft uses that monopoly to try and dictate proprietary browser extensions that suit microsoft but no one else?
I expect Nokia will be doing a bit of that too.
Posted by carkitter
Perhaps
I may seem to be going a bit soft on Nokia,
but I am impressed by their move towards open source and rejection of proprietary hardware/software. I can't see them suddenly dropping the Dr Jeckyll act to reveal an evil Mr Hyde though. Hopefully SE will take notice of the trend away from proprietary technology, but it would take a big shift in corporate philosophy I suspect.
Posted by max_wedge
true mind you SE tried opening up UIQ but it was simply too little too late to ensure UIQ survival.
Posted by mib1800
One of the main reason Nokia open sourced Symbian is to pacify and contain the Symbian splinter groups (Moto/SE/MOAP). It is easier to compete with your competitors who is using the same platform as you than those who uses unknown entities like Android/WM/OSX/Linux. And with Nokia going for services with Ovi etc, all of their Symbian competitors phones are potentially a source of money earner.
Posted by max_wedge
Yep, also easier to stack the odds in your own favour to
Posted by Sirhackalot
On 2008-08-17 17:30:05, carkitter wrote:
On 2008-08-17 16:11:28, Sirhackalot wrote:
@ Plangatan
Thats useless without showing competitors charts as well...
Err... your quite wrong. Read the thread title again, it says nothing about Nokia.
On 2008-08-17 16:52:49, EMS06 wrote:
@Plankgatan
What's the point of digging up old stats? We're dealing with 2008 and things don't look as rosy as they once did.
Those stats aren't old as such. They cover all 2007 which wasn't that long ago - it's only August. Those are the months that this years figures are being compared to so they are very relevant.
Just because you're down on SE doesn't mean the stats back up your grievances. My country has seen two Q's in a row of negative growth, should we all panic? Now is the time for good decision making and investment which is exactly what SE is doing.
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Voted Best Phone Review Esato Awards 2008!
[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-08-17 16:35 ]
Carkitter stop and think. It is very stupid to say that se sales are at best, show a sales chart and, not show a comparison with leading competitors. In this world of sales & marketing nothing is best unless is better then is competitors in the same market. Se at the moment is no longer on top. Even worst when se sales aren't good and some one like you jumps in the bandwagon to show their true intelligence.
Carkitter wrote
Err... your quite wrong. Read the thread title again, it says nothing about Nokia.
It dosen't have to do anything with nokia. The point is plank went off topic and made a statement with an old sales chart; I added that there isn't much sence in showing only a se chart and saying their at best when is actual fact they are doing bad.
Posted by max_wedge
One thing I goota say in relation to the thread title: No Way!
SE is far from doomed. They may not be rushing headlong into market leadership, but by no means are they doomed. SE will be with us for a long time yet.
Posted by carkitter
@Sirhackalot
I know Plankgatan is a fan of SE.
But in this instance he did not say anything about them being the best. In fact his point inregards to the thread title was only 2 words:
On 2008-08-16 13:32:08, plankgatan wrote:
have just 2 words to say:
look here:
http://www.esato.com/news/article.php/id=1785
(keep up the good work with your beatiful & classic phones)
It's quite valid to post SE sales figures in relation to a topic such as this and the sales figures were from only last year and they are SE's best ever results. They speak for themselves and do not require other manufacturers figures because this is not a topic about other manufacturers.
Posted by Dogmann
@all,
Well I'm shocked a debate about SE and no other manufacturers information is relevant what a refreshing change that makes. Usually SE failings are justified on the basis of others aren't perfect either.
Whilst i agree it is a little premature to say SE is doomed a bit like the thread about UIQ, oh no wait that turned out to be right after all despite what many where happy to claim.
Anyway lets just wait an see what SE's figures over the year show us and even the fist 2Q of next year. But unlike some i really don't see a great new portfolio from SE that's going to help them.
If they are relying on the X1 which will never be a mass market device and the C905 and W980 i think they face a very tough time. IMO they really need to get back to fewer but class leading devices to regain the high ground.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-08-23 12:06 ]
Posted by razec
On 2008-08-23 13:06:38, Dogmann wrote:IMO they really need to get back to fewer but class leading devices to regain the high ground.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
ditto
Posted by carkitter
On 2008-08-23 13:06:38, Dogmann wrote:
@all,
Well I'm shocked a debate about SE and no other manufacturers information is relevant what a refreshing change that makes. Usually SE failings are justified on the basis of others aren't perfect either.
As usual Plankgatan's comment are judged not by what he says here, but by what he says in regard to the K850i camera. If people want to argue HIS point then do so, but argue it on why THOSE statistcis point to SE being doomed.
On 2008-08-23 13:06:38, Dogmann wrote:
Whilst i agree it is a little premature to say SE is doomed a bit like the thread about UIQ, oh no wait that turned out to be right after all despite what many where happy to claim.
Are you claiming to have forecast the creation of the Symbian Foundation?
Or did you forecast that UIQ would fail because of users deserting it due to not getting what they want, ala your SE theory. If so then you were wrong about UIQ and I predict that if something happens to SE then you'll claim to be right there also even if the reasons are not something you predicted.
On 2008-08-23 13:06:38, Dogmann wrote:
Anyway lets just wait an see what SE's figures over the year show us and even the fist 2Q of next year. But unlike some i really don't see a great new portfolio from SE that's going to help them.
I've already stated that you can't see SE's acheivements and successes, now you admit it too.
On 2008-08-23 13:06:38, Dogmann wrote:
If they are relying on the X1 which will never be a mass market device and the C905 and W980 i think they face a very tough time. IMO they really need to get back to fewer but class leading devices to regain the high ground.
Marc
Actually it's clear that they need more phones in the low end for success, and if you follow Nokia's smartphone strategy, more devices are needed there too. What I don't understand is why K630 and K660 both exist at the same time, likewise W610 and W660. With the world becoming a smaller place, surely regional variations like K790/K800 and Z770/Z780 are pointless? And the G700 business edition - why not make all G700's a business edition instead of just the Singapore model?
Posted by StevenC
Personally I'll stick to SE in whatever circumtences because I think they make good mobile phones. I own a T610 + W910i and my sister's a K510i. We also have a Samsung D500 and a E900 as well but none of them compares to a SE.
Despite the fact that the W910i is buggy, it sports a very good operating system. All SE phones do. SE phones are easy, user-friendly and customisable. Besides they have beautiful designs and not cheap looking like Nokia phones.
Believe me SE is probably the best.
Posted by marty mcfly
On 2008-08-25 00:13:47, StevenC wrote:
I own a T610 + W910i and my sister's a K510i
Your sister is a K510i? No wonder your loyal to Sony Ericsson
Posted by skblakee
On 2008-08-22 16:53:19, max_wedge wrote:
SE is far from doomed. They may not be rushing headlong into market leadership, but by no means are they doomed. SE will be with us for a long time yet.
Have they proved what you said above?
has not moved upward in terms of market share in a long while and if they continue to disregard loyal fans there are indeed doomed
Posted by carkitter
On 2008-08-25 00:58:01, skblakee wrote:
Have they proved what you said above?
has not moved upward in terms of market share in a long while and if they continue to disregard loyal fans there are indeed doomed
It's a business we're talking about here, not a popularity contest. Phones get bought not elected to market leadership. SE doesn't need to prove or disprove anything, all they need to do is make phones and do so profitably in the fastest changing, most volitile industry in the world - that's not easy as we can see.
Posted by c96sthl
let say SE need to make sure their ARPU is growing again or even if it drop, it really come with the fact they are selling a lot more low end phone....not the drop of ARPU didn't really tele with their figure on low end phone shipment which seem to tell us they try to sell their mid to high end stuff cheap.
I saw one SE shop near my house selling G900 at RM1699 which is USD around 550!! tht is same as P1i. Many new phone is not selling premium price because it lack of the features some people @ malaysia don't use but found nokia having (Mobile TV? who use it? HSDPA penetration not that high here etc etc...some idiot don't even know how to make full use of smartphone features)
This is bad and they need to find a way to improve it...particularly bring in something the mass and tech savvy dude hope for...better camera/ more wifi enabled mid range to high end phone/ bigger sceeen/ better video capturing.
you don't need a lot just a few key item and then make the fans feel happy with.... yup some N series killer haha...but it seem like a big demand with such economy situation.
Posted by mode
Is Sony Ericsson doomed? Yes, we all are, brace yourselves for armageddon is amongst us :-|