Posted by TheWhizz_68
Just incase someone is after one of these instead of the new 3gs, cpw have the 16gb white or black 3g for £359 payasugo. Just been in lower floor store in bluewater and they have 4 of each colour in stock.
Posted by ares
On 2009-06-20 13:48:57, scouser_75 wrote:
Guys can any one confirm if Push is now working properly and as it should on 3.0?
always did
anyway...here´s push messages using GriP (growl for iphone)
http://yfrog.com/5bwgtj Twitter though IM+
http://yfrog.com/08n2jj beejive
http://yfrog.com/18vlej beejive + HeiWAY
http://yfrog.com/0kxusj Message Log
Posted by RyaN
GriP FTW in a big way! Awesome awesome... err did I say awesome?
Posted by carkitter
A very good video here about marketing iPhone apps. The whole thing is 50mins long but that includes 27min of Q&A after the initial presentation. I only watched the first half to keep the bandwidth down and it was well worth watching.
Posted by haszek
If I turn off 3G should I have blue circle or E on top bar? (o2 network) I've just never seen E so far and I got 3G signal:/
Posted by carkitter
Turning off 3G makes the iPhone revert to 2G GPRS (the blue circle) or EDGE (the E symbol). It does not stop data usage, it merely switches to a method that uses less battery.
Posted by haszek
Yeah I know it's just that I thought it should always be E not normal 2G (circle), and I've never seen E on my phone. It would be strange that I'm in range of 3G signal but no edge.
Posted by carkitter
Depends on whether your networks supports EDGE, not all networks do. Mine doesn't.
Posted by RyaN
Only just discovered at the weekend that the process for force quitting an app (Safari,iPod etc) has changed in OS3.0. It used to be done by holding down the home button until it quits, however now you have to hold down the power/sleep button until the 'slide to power off' screen appears and then hold down home til the app quits.. Bizarre that Apple changed this.
Posted by masseur
presumably they wanted an easy way to get to voice control and with only two keys (excluding volume and silent) available, the obvious choice was to hold the home key down
this means the force exit *had* to change and of course, the force exit is used rarely compared to the voice control
Posted by RyaN
Ah yes of course! Although voice control can't be used on a 3G if i'm correct? Obviously I appreciate they had to write this in the 3.0fw regardless.. due to the 3GS having this function.
It's certainly true that the force exit is rarely used. I reckon it's how a lot of people kill their batteries so quick by leaving iPod and Safari running in the background all day!
Posted by masseur
really? I didnt' realise that voice control wasn't available on the 3G.
Surely its software only or is the voice recognition in the new hardware?
I used microsoft voice command on WM a few years back and that was a software only solution that worked very well
Posted by RyaN
Yeh it's not available for 3G models. Silly huh. You'd have thought it was really only a software thing, and shouldnt have to depend on hardware.
Really want a 3GS now, if anything just for the extra RAM. Annoying when apps like TweetDeck crash because the memory just falls too low
Posted by masseur
btw, I read this morning that the jailbreak for V3 is being held back until 3.0.1 is available
Posted by RyaN
Yeh a good move by the team, although i'm sure there's a lot of peeps out there desperate to jailbreak (i know if I had one i'd want it done like yesterday
)
The 3GS really is going to showcase it's processing power when the jailbreak is released and running Backgrounder. Will easily be able to have 10 apps on the go!!! Battery permitting of course!!
Posted by frank2345babies
Regarding the iPod and safari apps are they always running in the backround and should I always force close these In The way u previously mentioned as opposed to just pressing home?
Posted by Boinng
On 2009-06-30 22:38:19, frank2345babies wrote:
Regarding the iPod and safari apps are they always running in the backround and should I always force close these In The way u previously mentioned as opposed to just pressing home?
No, or at least, it's really not been necessary for me. Yes those two apps (and mail) can remain open in the background after you press the Home button to close them (unlike any third party app) but it's not the big deal that might seem on other platforms, I don't personally believe it has a big impact on battery life or performance. If you've jailbroken and you've got other stuff running in the background then maybe, I guess it all adds up, but the stock firmware handles fine without any need for forced shutdowns, task managers, or anything like that.
Posted by RyaN
Cobblers! Leaving iPod.app or Safari.app running in the background causes a notable battery loss, jailbroken or not. Fact.
Mail.app and Phone.app are always running in the background. You can force quit them but they reopen again immediately. Those two apps running in the background only have light background processes and won't impact on battery at all (obviously if you have fetch set to 15 mins it'll drain battery more than if you have it set to less frequent intervals - but everyone knows this)
Posted by ares
mail.app can be effectively removed from background by changing mail settings to manual, them forcing the mail to close
Posted by RyaN
@ant
Posted by Boinng
@ Ryan - cobblers yourself! I rarely if ever forcibly close Safari, iPod, or any other app, but my battery life is perfectly respectable - up to two days when I need it to be (that's with email polling hourly and the usual few calls, texts, games, lots of browsing etc).
I'm well used to the Symbian and Windows Mobile worlds where you obsessively monitor these things with task managers and shut everything down regularly for fear of slowdowns, crashes, and your battery life pouring away. In my experience the iPhone is *not* like that at all, at least in its stock form. Ok, so you might get another ten minutes out of it if you constantly shut things down, but it's not a necessity or a significant factor, and really not worth worrying about IMHO - it'll just interrupt your enjoyment of the phone and uneccessarily slow things down.
The *only* time I've felt the need to hold down buttons is when another app complains of low memory - that's the only time it's been an issue for me in 8-9 months of ownership...
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2009-07-01 12:48 ]
Posted by RyaN
LOL @Boinng has a magic iPhone, whose battery last for days!!!
The iPhone is notorious for it's poor battery life, most people are unjailbroken and their batt. dies before the day is out. Two days with lots of use, I find difficult to believe...but if you say so...
Either way, it is a FACT if you leave Safari or iPod in the background it will drain battery (do some googling) They're still running afterall, as if you were in the app. I can't see how you think that does not impact on the battery life?
Anyway I find that keeping things tight on battery adds fun to the user experience. Neglecting it by leaving things running is sloppy
Posted by Boinng
I usually charge at work (on USB) but when I take it home on Friday it won't need the charger again till Sunday night, that's good enough for me. I can guarantee both Safari and the iPod app will be running in the background the whole time too. Of course everyone's mileage varies, and if you use the thing constantly it'll run down a lot quicker, but that's useage - the brightly lit screen, active data connection, active calls, etc - not a few processes held in memory by a strictly limited number of background apps.
They're still running afterall, as if you were in the app. I can't see how you think that does not impact on the battery life?
That's the thing though - they're not still running "as if you were in the app", are they? Assuming you're not using the iPod, for example, it's not doing anything - not decoding or playing any music or video files, not keeping the screen alive, nothing - it's just remembering where you are in the playlist. Safari also goes dormant - it does nothing until you open it again (at which point it will resume downloading whatever you left it with). Apple designed these core apps knowing - expecting even - that *nobody* would be manually quitting them, so they're tightly and efficiently integrated into the OS, designed to occupy a small footprint and not use up the juice. It's the same principle that keeps the Phone and Messages app alive at all times too - or would you kill those as well if you had the chance?
Posted by voda_jon
i like the iphone...
just to break things up... anyone played blowfish? its addictive and hard to get past level 8!
J.
Posted by NoKia
just to add to the discussion, using the processes tab of sbsettings i always notice that safari sometimes uses about 30-40mb of RAM just sitting the background doing nothing
Posted by RyaN
@Boinng However you try and dress it up, those apps are running. They are not dormant when you hit the home button. They are still open. Notice the difference in behaviour between a force quit & then open the app, and a minimize to home screen and then reopen the app? It's not just remembering where you left off - the app is still running! Maybe the iPhone isn't taking upon itself to have a party while you're gone...playing a tune or browsing the web as it sees fit while you're looking the other way, but it doesnt mean it's not running!
How do you explain then being able to double click the home button when the iPod app is as you say 'dormant' and you can carry on playing music where you left off without having to boot the app again? Thats right, 'cos it's still open, consuming memory, consuming battery.
When they are running in the background, they are consuming RAM... and RAM being consumed = battery drain.
Messages app alive at all time? Eh? It saves&quits. Messages is not running at all times.
@NoKia
Exactly!! How can something that is consuming that much RAM in the background NOT be consuming battery?
[ This Message was edited by: RyaN on 2009-07-01 15:41 ]
Posted by Boinng
I've not said they aren't running, I just don't agree with you that they're still running "as if you were in the app", because they aren't - simple as that. They're designed to sit in the background without causing problems, and that's what they do. I've not said they don't use memory either, I'm just pointing out that in my real world experience they don't have any serious impact on battery life.
Put it this way - I've just spent the last 8-9 months having no real worries about battery life (at least compared to previous smartphones, all of which genuinely HAD to have background processes terminated as often as possible), no desire to install any form of task manager, no concerns about whether the app I closed was really closed at all, and all the advantages of having Safari, iPod, Mail etc open as quickly as possible whenever they were needed. Should I start worrying now? I don't think so
The people who routinely complain about iPhone battery life are the people who either (a) never had a big-screen smartphone before, or (b) didn't actually use their big-screen smartphone before, and therefore never realised just how much of your "phone battery" can actually get wiped out by browsing, gaming, music, email, and all the other non-phone like things a device like the iPhone ends up being used for on a daily basis. It's nothing to do with background apps, which - by design - the iPhone limits to tightly integrated core apps anyway - unless you jailbreak, at which point you may well be using any number of apps that don't shutdown, don't powersave, aren't properly integrated (or may be conflicting with other processes) and so on.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2009-07-01 17:21 ]
Posted by MWEB
What do Boinng and the pope have in common ?, they both claim to be infallible
Posted by Boinng
On 2009-07-01 18:59:19, MWEB wrote:
What do Boinng and the pope have in common ?, they both claim to be infallible
WTH does this have to do my infallibility, or cheap pope jokes for that matter? All I'm doing here is giving a truthful account of my daily experience with an un-jailbroken iPhone over the last 9 months, in the context of my equivalent usage of a string of other smartphones in the past. Do you have that same experience? Can you tell me I'm wrong, that my battery life is bad when it isn't, that I should be manually closing down apps that I've never needed to before? I doubt that.
I turn off 3G, wifi and location services when I'm not using them - that's common sense. I turn off my work email account when I don't need to be reading it, for my own sanity as much as anything else (although my exchange calendar and contacts are always in sync). When I start managing open processes and background apps, and fiddling around with programmes with names like "sbpsettings" to monitor what my phone is doing, then one of the biggest achievements of the iPhone will be lost, and I may as well go back to one of the POS phones I found myself "managing" before..
Posted by Peio
I agree with Boinng, I find the iphone battery to last a lot longer than my previous smartphone (htc diamond), and I won't jailbreak and apply tweaks/themes etc on iphone because it will remember me WM6. That's why I love my iphone, because I don't need to modify things every 2 days like on wm or UIQ
Posted by RyaN
On 2009-07-01 23:43:45, Peio wrote:
I agree with Boinng, I find the iphone battery to last a lot longer than my previous smartphone (htc diamond), and I won't jailbreak and apply tweaks/themes etc on iphone because it will remember me WM6. That's why I love my iphone, because I don't need to modify things every 2 days like on wm or UIQ
A slightly naive comment. Jailbreak is A LOT more than just themes and tweaks. The main one being able to use an awesome app called GriP which handles Push notifications properly unlike the poorly thought out, intrusive design by Apple.
You dont 'need' to modify things, but it's half the fun of using a device IMO.
Enjoy your iPhone as it is tho yeah
On 2009-07-01 19:52:05, Boinng wrote:
and fiddling around with programmes with names like "sbpsettings" to monitor what my phone is doing, then one of the biggest achievements of the iPhone will be lost
Actually programs like SBSettings are a massive acheivement. You base you comment on little or no knowledge of what this app does.
But anyway, trying to get this thread back on the rails... How is everyone finding the Push system in general? More and more apps are coming out (slowly) with support, HeyWay is a cool little app which allows you to share your location with someone quickly and easily. I'm still waiting for a dedicated Twitter client with Push 'cos IM+ sucks tbh, I always seem to get the push notification twice for each message.
Also has anyone played the new version of Flight Control over local wi-fi? Any good?
Posted by Boinng
On 2009-07-02 10:48:19, RyaN wrote:
A slightly naive comment. Jailbreak is A LOT more than just themes and tweaks. The main one being able to use an awesome app called GriP which handles Push notifications properly unlike the poorly thought out, intrusive design by Apple.
Is Peio's comment really more naive than installing third party always-resident software on top of Apple's own push notification system and then lecturing the rest of us on how to maximise battery life?
You dont 'need' to modify things, but it's half the fun of using a device IMO.
For you it is, for me (and I guess Peio) it's precisely no fun at all, because we've both had phones where you *did* need to tweak and modify all these things, and when it's a chore it's a bore. One of the biggest selling points of the iPhone is the fact that it simply works well as intended, background processes and all, and that's how I enjoy using the phone. Having tried most of the competition I agree with Apple's approach to third party apps, and the protection given to the core stuff from tweaks and third party add-ons, and whether you agree or not I'm making an informed choice not to jailbreak my phone. Is it a coincidence that my battery life isn't a problem, while you're obsessively shutting down background apps to save juice? Who can say.
Actually programs like SBSettings are a massive acheivement. You base you comment on little or no knowledge of what this app does.
No, I base my comment on the fact that one of the crowning achievements of the iPhone is that it's a useable smartphone that doesn't require software like sbsettings. It's no judgment on sbsettings, I'm sure it's just dandy, but it's something you have chosen to use for your own reasons, not something I need to have on my phone.
Posted by RyaN
I'm not lecturing anyone on how to save battery life, I was merely pointing out or rather trying to help people. No need to get on your high horse about it
When it's a chore it's a bore? Exactly. Not that you care but what SBSettings enables you to do it toggle wifi, 3G, bluetooth etc etc without having to go through a series of drawn out pushes to turn these things off. Now that's a chore in my book.
And I would hardly say i'm obsessively closing down apps with SBSettings...hardly ever in fact. All I ever close down with it is Safari and iPod. Apart from Mail and Phone nothing else stays in the background
Again, dress it up how you want, but the fact is there are shortfalls with the way Apple implemented certain things IMO, but if you're happy with the way you use you phone then good, cos I couldn't really care less. Certain people don't know what the jailbreak brings so I merely post for the benefit of people that are interested to know what their options are.
Posted by MWEB
"shortfalls" on the iphone Ryan
, that's a bit like waving a red rag at a bull where Boinngs concerned
I value your unbiased opinion and enormous experience on this greatly!
Hugely enjoying my 3G S BTW
Posted by NoKia
well on any iphone jailbroken or not, having safari in the background hogging 40mb of ram will have a performance impact whether u want to admit to it or not, having safari and ipod open in the background and then running a navigation program like navigon( or even some games) will cause the app to display a memory warning and crash back to the springboard or it will run sluggishly, the only way to solve this in a stock non-jailbroken phone is to reboot it or go around reopening and force closing all open apps, now to claim this is an example of the brilliant apple memory handling capabilities is laughable
Obviously everyone has their own preference of how they want to use their device and we can all respect that, but lets not bury our heads in the sand and pretend there are no issues
Posted by RyaN
@MWEB Lol Yes, it's hard for some people to believe that Apple's design isn't flawed. Personally I feel Apple engineers have pinched many ideas from third party apps over the years cos they're too damn lazy to think of proper functional ideas themselves OR it just takes em far to long to think them up! In a way to a certain extent the App Store has become the brainchild for the whole system whereby Apple get other people to do the leg work for them and then reap the benefits. For example apps like 'Camera Zoom' in the App Store adds a simple yet necessary function to a poorly designed stock Apple app.
I'm pleased you're getting on with the iPhone this time round though
@NoKia - Amen to that dude
Posted by Boinng
@Ryan - nobody's saying Apple's way of doing things is perfect. What I'm saying is that it's quite workable for most people, and the need for hacks, tweaks, and jailbroken apps is FAR less than that on pretty much any other smartphone platform. Symbian, Windows Mobile, of course you need a task manager, of course you need to force close apps, and of course you need a whole host of UI-addons, tweaks and improvements just to make it workable and address the many shortcomings in the generally very poor design of their UIs. With the iPhone? Not so much. Tapping a few on screen buttons with your thumb to toggle the wifi, for example, is nothing compared to having to whip a stylus out and delve into a tabbed control panel. So while something like SBsettings is an unquestionable MUST on other platforms, it's only ever going to be a "quite nice" on the iPhone, and "quite nice" doesn't necessarily pay the bills.
@MWEB - always nice to hear from you.
@NoKia - I've already mentioned the memory issues, yes that can happen, no it doesn't happen often, no I've never said that it was a perfect situation, what it isn't is a big problem or one that has any significant impact on my battery life, given that I don't close those apps down and my battery life pretty much equals or marginally betters that of most other iPhone users as far as I can see. I'm guessing you probably see a lot more memory shortages than I do if you also have a long list of apps like sbsettings, Grip, winterboard etc all sitting in the background.
Posted by NoKia
Ryan, did u get round to fixing your phone? did they give u a new one?
Posted by RyaN
On 2009-07-02 14:08:51, NoKia wrote:
Ryan, did u get round to fixing your phone? did they give u a new one?
Not yet - i've had a failed visit to White City (no Genuis Bar slots) and also when I could get to the Bluewater store they had zero availability, but that was the around the weekend of the 3GS launch so i'm not surprised!
My limited warranty runs out on August 7th, so as long as I get to a store before then all is good.
The Concierge guy in the White City store inspected my phone though and said straight out that they would just swap it out for a brand new one.
A store is opening up in Brighton soon - but I dont think soon enough for me!
Posted by masseur
I last heard that Brighton is due to open in September, and that will suit you and me both. Its about time they had one down our way.
Posted by RyaN
Yeah - damn... thought as much... Was looking around Mac related forums following a Google and I got the impression it wasn't going to be very soon
And yes, having one in Brighton would be superb for both of us! Just wait until someone comes in here from the North of England hearing us moan about having to travel to London when they only have the option of Liverpool or across the border to Scotland to choose from
Posted by Boinng
Talking about imperfections, anyone had any issues with excahnge contacts or calendars disappearing under 3.0? Twice now, over the last couple of weeks, I've found names not appearing in messages or the phone log, checked the Contacts app and either found it completely empty, or (today) populated by one entry that I happened to edit on the PC today. After a restart everything resyncs eventually - fortunately they're not leaving the server as well. I thought it might be a misbehavng app at first, but can't pin it down..
Posted by carkitter
iPhone wide open to hacks via txt.
Note the part that says "a side effect of jailbreaking an iPhone is that it removes about 80% of its security functions, and cautioned that users concerned about security should avoid jailbreaking."
Did the jailbreaking community fail to mention that?
I wonder why?
Posted by RyaN
Alarming, I hope Apple get this cleared up. Hopefully sorted in the 3.1fw that is out to Devs in beta atm
Posted by Boinng
Is there any kind of quality control or gatekeeping for Cydia? I just wonder, given that jailbreaking removes most the phone's security against rogue code and obviously allows apps much greater access to the core functions, is there anything to stop a classic trojan horse being installed that way? A nice new desktop widget or whatever that waits till 2am and then silently dials the author's premium rate number in Barbados for a few hours in the background.. even if you were found out after the first night, how many thousands of trusting jailbreakers might you con out of serious money in the first hit?
Edit - I did some reading - and basically no there isn't anything to stop this happening, since Cydia will source apps from wherever you ask it to look. So if I, as a evil trojan developer, simply advertise the hosting address of my evil app effectively, people will use Cydia to download and install it from wherever I put it.
And as the receiving phone is jailbroken by definition, my app can then do pretty much whatever it wants.
Interesting, when you think of it like that really? Kind of puts a vulnerability to malicious SMS in perspective.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2009-07-06 15:05 ]
Posted by NoKia
Funny since all the years of jailbreaking there has never been a case trojans, malicious SMS's etc
well lets ignore all that and not let facts or experience get in the way of a good scare story
Posted by RyaN
Well I would've thought to a certain extent there's some form of quality control with Cydia. There are trusted Community sources that are preinstalled, but there are other repos that people can add via a package installation or by manual input. If something dodgy was upped, I reckon someone somewhere would note it and put the warning out to the community, or get the source taken down.
I guess to combat these kind of trojans, surely you'd just need to be 100% positive of what it is you're installing and which repo is being shared by. I would never install something I wasn't sure of, 99% of the time I'm installing something I'm searching for purposely and I know which source it's coming from. Young kids however could be fooled in to installing the latest 'Shiny new wallpaper' or something.
As @NoKia said though, after all the years that have gone by and not one issue like this has been raised before... I remain sceptical
Posted by voda_jon
there is a quality control over some repos... if u add the hakulous repo u get a cydia warning so they must monitor usage in some sort of way otherwise this message wouldnt appear would it...
It goes along the lines of... 'apps downloaded from this source may damage your handset and/or contain copyright material'
J.
Posted by Boinng
"All the years that have gone by" - lol! The iPhone's only existed for a maximum of 2 years, and jailbreaking the first one took about 6 months, that's all of a year and a half of jailbreaking at my count! And of course for the first year or so iPhone jailbreakers were a pretty small, determined, and clued up bunch - it was only with the 3G and now the 3GS that the iPhone got really popular, and jailbreaking at the same time got really easy more recently with the newer dev tools, so pretty much anyone could do it.
The market for exploiting some unsuspecting users seems pretty rich to me. From what I understand, all it takes to "publish" an app through Cydia is to post the app somewhere - anywhere - on the web, and simply have the client enter that address in their iPhone. So a google ad for "cydia-hot-babes.com/iphone" is pretty much all it takes.
Or for maximum impact you could go straight to a repository, maybe post a few different rogue apps from seemingly different authors but with the same underlying money-making code, the "community" might remove them/get the word out eventually but how many would be installed and cashing in, in the meantime? The point is, even at the repositories, there's nobody checking or testing those apps before they're live - and any jailbroken phone is completely defenceless to them once installed.
You can call it a scare story, but surely this is just a basic truth of jailbreaking, isn't it? The very nature of the beast?
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2009-07-06 16:17 ]
Posted by RyaN
What point are you trying to prove exactly? We read the article that said that 80% of the iPhone when jailbroken is vulnerable. Tell us something we don't know.
In the meantime I sure as hell wont be installing stuff willy nilly, especially the likes of ''cydia-hot-babes.com/iphone''