Posted by HornyNick
Prime Minister John Howard - Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:
'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'
'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!'
'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It
is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage y ou take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'
'If you aren't happy here then
LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'
------------------------------------------------
Wonder if the British politicians will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths?
[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2008-05-09 19:29 ]
Posted by BobaFett
sg happened in aussieland that the pm talks like this?
Posted by haynesycop
Gordon Brown are you listening!
Posted by BobaFett
how weird, that the scandinavian countries solved this problem, less or more. its amazing, that almost every immigrants speaks 3 languages, the own, danish, norwegian and some english and not to forget, they go to school and learned "the lesson". ok, it could happen, that certain groups make shit, but even its happening, they manage it on a diplomatical way, so we can hear onews from nordic countries really hardly. respect!
Posted by arien617
To be fair Boba, the man has a point.
I'm a British Muslim, though I feel that emphasis isn't on the British part of life, it's overlooked by most. Of course, saying that, my family isn't practicing, personally I've never been to a mosque or declined a bacon sarnie, my parents prefer religion largely out of our lives. It causes more trouble/grief that what it's worth. But still, I totally agree that if you live in one country, you should keep in line with tradition, not saying you should convert to Christianity and go to Church every Sunday and etc.
Excluding yourself from the British community, take Edgeware Road, it's almost as Islamic as Mecca, everywhere you turn the women are in Hijabs, it causes divisions between communities.
Not all my thoughts on this subject, as it's almost 11 and I have school tomorrow, but I think you all catch my drift?
Posted by BobaFett
just i think its weird, that these problems pop up now... maybe the goverments should have made thoughts of it ages ago... lets face the truth. cheap workers are always good and useful. if the economy runs well, everybody is happy, but when its shitty, sy has to be blamed and point on sy... its easier for politicans this way, instead to look at their own shit. same story here in austria. let let fugitives in, cos they get money from brussel after each one. but if sy, like me, wanna work here, its alwasy a pain in ass to get that crap permission...
Posted by >500
ah, John Howard isn't PM, Kevin Rudd is.
Posted by BobaFett
is there any official link for all this?
Posted by HornyNick
On 2008-05-09 01:27:12, >500 wrote:
ah, John Howard isn't PM, Kevin Rudd is.
Ok! Fair Enough! I just copy and pasted this from another forum, they didnt name their source. Im sure there will be an official quote somewhere......
[ This Message was edited by: HornyNick on 2008-05-09 00:55 ]
Posted by badassmam
Islam is a peaceful religion. There are those however who are terrorists but don't tell all the Muslims to leave. That's like saying a Christian who kills somebody means all Christians are killers so all should leave. And how about telling the Westerners to leave Iraq and return all the oil? Not likely.
Muslims have no right to ask for Shariah law in a non-Muslim country and also, Muslims are not being prevented from practicing their religion. But, the Muslims lands are being taken over for money and Islam is the villain created by the media. Now its all about banning the Qur'an and hijabis causing tension so they are constantly attacking us in order to justify their oil raids.
An Iraqi guy that comes to my local mosque saw his wife executed and his teenage daughter raped before being shot. This guy supported the occupation as well but not now. Now you tell me who the terrorists are.
@Arien617
Maybe you should read the Qur'an and you will realise that you do not in any way represent Muslims. Maybe you should find out why women wear a hijab rather than say 'religion causes tension', media slaves like yourself cause tension.
Posted by QVGA
He must have some balls talking in that tone.
Posted by PeterKay
If you want to know about Islam go to the source which is the Holy Quran.
Not the bullshitting media.
Posted by Cycovision
On 2008-05-09 18:12:51, QVGA wrote:
He must have some balls talking in that tone.
Not really. He's only speaking the truth. It applies to anybody living in a different country, regardless of their race or religion. You follow the laws and respect the cultures of that particular country. No question.
I see no need for anybody to be offended by what he said.
Posted by Davo_169
in his 15 years in parliment he did a hell of alot for this country, and now he's retired he can finally say what he wants
_________________
FORMERLY TROGDOR--meet me on the back of the blue bus and we can break on through to the other side
[ This Message was edited by: Davo_169 on 2008-05-09 18:05 ]
Posted by Caspa
On 2008-05-09 17:33:45, badassmam wrote:
Islam is a peaceful religion. There are those however who are terrorists but don't tell all the Muslims to leave. That's like saying a Christian who kills somebody means all Christians are killers so all should leave. And how about telling the Westerners to leave Iraq and return all the oil? Not likely.
Muslims have no right to ask for Shariah law in a non-Muslim country and also, Muslims are not being prevented from practicing their religion. But, the Muslims lands are being taken over for money and Islam is the villain created by the media. Now its all about banning the Qur'an and hijabis causing tension so they are constantly attacking us in order to justify their oil raids.
An Iraqi guy that comes to my local mosque saw his wife executed and his teenage daughter raped before being shot. This guy supported the occupation as well but not now. Now you tell me who the terrorists are.
@Arien617
Maybe you should read the Qur'an and you will realise that you do not in any way represent Muslims. Maybe you should find out why women wear a hijab rather than say 'religion causes tension', media slaves like yourself cause tension.
Here here! So many are preconditioned by the media its scary!
And the same goes for PK's comment!
As Muslims we have to abide by the law of the land irrespective of whether we agree with it or not.
Salamalaykum brothers...
Caspa (Aqil Abd-al-Aziz)
[ This Message was edited by: Caspa on 2008-05-09 18:11 ]
Posted by badassmam
@Cycovision
Recently in Denmark and other European countires the cartoon of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) depicted as a terrorist was printed again. This for Muslims is one of the most hurtful gestures towards our religion. Why should we be subject to this and do you think that just because it is not a Muslim country, they could print such things?
Can I do the same to your religion? Can I mock your beliefs? I bet if they printed a cartoon depicting black people negatively, the world would be up in arms.
Posted by thomas93
Badassmam, I am right in saying you do not draw Muhhamad or Allah because you dont know what they look like and believe it would be a false Idol?
I think one part of the Qu'ran is taken ott and the good parts ignored.
Ps: I am christian
Posted by badassmam
@thomas93
The whole of the Qur'an is good when understood and used in the correct context, the pictures were of the prophet (pbuh) were of him as a terrorist which is offensive.
As you are a Christian, how do you feel about films like the Life Of Brian, Passion Of The Christ? What about how God and Jesus are depicted in Family Guy? Just because Jesus is mocked on TV does not mean you should accept it and makes you wonder that why a 'Christian' country like England allows such things to be shown anyway.
Posted by thomas93
Badassmam-
Ignorance is bliss
Posted by Red_Rach
If god and Jesus were in family guy I imagine we'd laugh. Jesus and God has been shown in many shows in a funny light.
It's allowed to be shown because we all know it's lighthearted fun.
Oh and I do think John Howard talks sense. Why should we bring in other laws to suit people from other countries? Feel free to practice in your own home, but to set seperate laws is ridiculous.
_________________
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[ This Message was edited by: Red_Rach on 2008-05-09 19:03 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Red_Rach on 2008-05-09 19:05 ]
Posted by Cycovision
Can I do the same to your religion? Can I mock your beliefs?
Yes. You can if you wish. And I wouldn't take offense at all.
Posted by QVGA
On 2008-05-09 18:42:51, Cycovision wrote:
On 2008-05-09 18:12:51, QVGA wrote:
He must have some balls talking in that tone.
Not really. He's only speaking the truth. It applies to anybody living in a different country, regardless of their race or religion. You follow the laws and respect the cultures of that particular country. No question.
I see no need for anybody to be offended by what he said.
I'm not offended. In fact i'm impressed by what he said. What i meant was that for a PM, shouldn't you atleast try to sound 'nice' and diplomatic?
Posted by PeterKay
@Caspa
Wa'alaykum salaam
Peace be on you too
Posted by Cycovision
Sorry QVGA, looks like I read your post too hastily yet again!
Posted by haynesycop
All he is trying to say is that if you live in a certain country you should abide by that countries rules, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Anybody with half a brain knows that the large majority of Muslims are good people with no intention of causing any upset or terrorism. It's the small minority which undermine the religion and cause it to be stereotyped, which is a sad shame.
Again this may be a minority but it really annoys me when people come to live over here and in other countries and decide to live off the government and make no effort to integrate into the community and learn the language. It's good to see him standing up and saying what he thinks, the British government could take alot on board as i feel this country especially has become a pushover in many peoples eyes.
Posted by PeterKay
On 2008-05-09 20:36:22, haynesycop wrote:
All he is trying to say is that if you live in a certain country you should abide by that countries rules, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Anybody with half a brain knows that the large majority of Muslims are good people with no intention of causing any upset or terrorism. It's the small minority which undermine the religion and cause it to be stereotyped, which is a sad shame.
Again this may be a minority but it really annoys me when people come to live over here and in other countries and decide to live off the government and make no effort to integrate into the community and learn the language. It's good to see him standing up and saying what he thinks, the British government could take alot on board as i feel this country especially has become a pushover in many peoples eyes.
Well said, 100% spot on.
_________________
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[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2008-05-09 20:14 ]
Posted by londonlad123
This is just another case of media and politicians fooling people into getting worked up using fear and hate. Always giving you someone to hate so its not them, so its not about why hospitals and schools arent being managed properly by them, illegal wars, etc. So you follow them blindly, thinking you've achieved something.
[ This Message was edited by: londonlad123 on 2008-05-09 20:39 ]
Posted by PeterKay
Being a Muslim i need to be able to do the following actions, which this great country (UK) has no objections to as far as i know. These guidelines are a Must for every Muslim to follow and if they do so in the correct manner the UK or any country in the world will have no issues. But what we see in the media is Muslims potrayed as killing others and suicide bombers etc, the truth is Islam has no teachings of these actions so these as Haynesycop says are a minority and they should be kicked out, totally agree on that point myself.
a) Pray 5 times a day
b) Give Charity
c) Fast during the month of Ramadhan
d) Perform a Pilgrimage once in my life
e) Be able to go to the Mosque
f) Be able to pray the Holy Quran and teach my kids the Holy Quran
g) Be able to follow the ways shown by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)] **
h) Believe in One God
** A few basic teachings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH):
Help the poor
Respect your parents
Have no ill feelings against each other
Have mercy on your young ones
Be kind to your Neighbours
Live in harmony
Eat with your right hand
Sit down and eat/drink
These are just a few points, why someone would rdaw pathetic cartoons of this man is beyond me!! Here are a few links which may help you to get to know Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dbIaetu85OM
http://muhammad.net/j/index.p[....]ry§ionid=6&id=20&Itemid=33
Basically the above is what a Muslim must be able to do and in a nutshell the UK has no issues, the minority who do the wrong things in the name of Islam should be punished.
Posted by haynesycop
Many and for some all of those points are what any self respecting individual should follow, unfortunately not everybody does, i like to think i do apart from the praying and religion side, the rest is just common sense and respect.
Posted by arien617
On 2008-05-09 17:33:45, badassmam wrote:
@Arien617
Maybe you should read the Qur'an and you will realise that you do not in any way represent Muslims. Maybe you should find out why women wear a hijab rather than say 'religion causes tension', media slaves like yourself cause tension.
Again, I'd like to point out that you have to adapt when living in other countries. The Hijab makes the people wearing it seem hostile, you don't want to approach them, and it's not just me, I'm sure most feel this way about it!
Media slave.. dude, I'm 15. I still have a mind of my own, my opinions/decisions aren't influenced by the media. I'm well aware that no one reports the truth in today's war torn, racist world.
Posted by max_wedge
John howard never said this. It's a quote that's been attributed to US presidents as well but it's just a hoax.
Australia wasn't established on Christian basis. It was established as a Prison settlement. Sure the British Government was a "Christian" government, but Religion was just politics in those days. We had no "pilgrims" like the US. No religious freedom seekers. The majority of convicts whose labour built this country, were too busy surviving to be deeply religious. Religion played very little role in the development of this country.
I myself am not a Christian, yet I am Australian born and proud of it. I'm not a Muslim, Jew, Bhuddist or Hindu either. Aussies may or may not be religious, but the common thing we all have in common, WE DON'T CARE what religion you are. Be who you want to be, but don't try and make me be what you want me to be. Live and let live is what Australians believe in.