Posted by gallois
I'm looking for all SE models that have the same cam module as the W810i, probably the best phone I've ever owned.
I was thinking of upgrading to the W610i as there are some good PAYG deals at the mo but I've read the cam module is not the same as the W810i and lacks the same performance.
Posted by Radiux399
The K750i, W800i, W810i, and I THINK the W900i all share the same camera. Those are the only ones with that module.
Posted by razec
Early W900s have Sony made cam module, although the newer batch of W900 sold before now uses a different one
probably the reason why W900 has no modded cam driver . correct me if i'm wrong
Posted by max_wedge
The K750/W800 and W810 all use a Sony made AF module. I believe but can't say for sure that W900 used this very same module.
Infact K750 was the first phone to feature the module, made by Sony specifically for Mobile Phones.
Posted by plankgatan
w810 have CID 49 (and newer K750 have also CID 49)
old k750/w800 have CID 36
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K850, 
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[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2008-03-21 11:58 ]
Posted by goldenface
Somebody posted a very handy list of cam modules in the rumours fourm but I just can't find it. The W900i cam module was not the same as the W800i or W810i as previously thought.
I'll try and fish it out.
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Here you go, goldenface:
http://semcblog.wordpress.com/list-of-cameras/
Posted by goldenface
Thanks mate, you are indeed a wonder.
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
No problem!
I don't know what the accuracy of the list is like though, as phones like the Z770i and W980i are listed, but they're not even out yet, so I presume they are just guesses. But for W800i/W810i/W900i comparisons, I'd say it would be fine!
Posted by Raiderski
for W810 (and maybe W800) there was no revision in cam module (no matter of CID version). unlucky was K750 because various revisions killed initial high quality. first series of K750 with CID49 have old (HQ) cam module
Posted by milan91
I had k750i CID49 with old cam modul
Posted by Raiderski
lucky you
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2008-03-21 13:20:28, Raiderski wrote:
for W810 (and maybe W800) there was no revision in cam module (no matter of CID version). unlucky was K750 because various revisions killed initial high quality. first series of K750 with CID49 have old (HQ) cam module
Anybody else remember the original press release by SonyEricsson promising that a revision of the K750i would ship with an CCD sensor?!! Just because ppl that enjoyed the S700i so much complained that the K750i wouldn't have it ... boy where they wrong that the K750i would under perform.
Posted by max_wedge
true! Of course imagine the K750 2MP, AF combined with S700 grain free CCD! Now that would have been a killer combo
But still overall I'd rather a K750 over S700
Posted by razec
^^ If SE had revised K750 sensor to CCD probably today we have no poor K850 camera quality. as SE won't have the guts to incorporate a weaker CMOS sensor on their successors since people will be so used to it's digicam quality. imagine what will be N95/N82/G800/G810/Viewty's stand when this revision happened long long ago
Posted by max_wedge
yes, what a missed opportunity!
but I guess we woulda paid more for CCD. Remember S700 was like $1000 compared to the $800 of the K700
Posted by razec
^^ Yes max but that was what SE fans are longing since S700.although today i wouldn't think a single CCD raises price so much. given also the fact that there are already quite many phones that utilizes CCD and with Sony's development/integration of 12megapixel CCD in their cybershot digicams it will surely lower the cost for integrating 5/6megapixel sensors to phone.
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[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2008-03-22 01:54 ]
Posted by max_wedge
I tend to agree, though other factors such as more battery consumption, larger size etc also contribute to cost and impracticality.
Still, it would be nice. CCD still has less noise problems than CMOS, though the gap is getting narrower.
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2008-03-22 02:53:07, razec wrote:
^^ Yes max but that was what SE fans are longing since S700.although today i wouldn't think a single CCD raises price so much. given also the fact that there are already quite many phones that utilizes CCD and with Sony's development/integration of 12megapixel CCD in their cybershot digicams it will surely lower the cost for integrating 5/6megapixel sensors to phone.
Not likely back then! CCD modules where VERY VERY expensive, and very few manufacturers could make them for use on cellphones. This wasn't 2006 ... it was 2003/2! Hardly ANY cam phones existed EVEN in Japan. Only they did have CCD but remember the weight and SIZE of the S700!? Yeah I didn't want that in my K750i. That battery was also HUGE in the S700 because of power consumption. The S710i was much more frugal but still not pleasant for 1/2 wk usuage. I'm glad no CCD. CMOS is much cheaper and just about equal now.
Many of you don't realize that even SONY uses CMOS in HD 1080p HDD Camcorders! And Digital Cameras as well. So CMOS is top quality. But without Glass/Quartz lenses, its not enough. Now with VarioPtics liquid lense technology and Seiko's manufacturing at mass speeds, maybe we'll see these in SE's future phones by next year??
Posted by WhiteEye
Why didn't anybody mention D750, T-mo version of K750??
Posted by max_wedge
The D750 is just a rebadged K750, nothing more
Posted by AbuBasim
On 2008-03-22 08:19:19, Prom1 wrote:
Not likely back then! CCD modules where VERY VERY expensive, and very few manufacturers could make them for use on cellphones.
All digicams, except some of the large dSLRs use CCD sensors. How come these are not "VERY, VERY expensive"?
Posted by max_wedge
that's quite incorrect. Many low end digicams use cmos, and even some DSLR's use cmos (which once was unheard of).
Apart from that, a digicam is a dedicated package. The issues of space and energy consumption are not so much of an issue in dedicated cameras because they are not competing with other phone functions for the limited space and energy.
Anyway, if you want to argue that CMOS isn't cheaper than CCD then you are fighting a losing battle. It's pretty much an accepted fact, just google or wiki it. Infact, due to the cheapness and lower power consumption of CMOS, the reverse is happening. Due to more development going into CMOS because of it's advantages in small convergence devices, CMOS is becoming as good as CCD, and one day CCD will cease to exist in all but ultra high end gear.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-03-22 14:42 ]
Posted by himlims_nl
so agreed; w810 is (in my opinion) best SE phone
[ This Message was edited by: himlims_nl on 2008-03-22 14:42 ]
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-03-22 15:41:48, himlims_nl wrote:
so agreed; w810 is (in my opinion) best SE phone
[ This Message was edited by: himlims_nl on 2008-03-22 14:42 ]
it doesn't have an active lense cover which is essential for a camera phone. This is one area W810 loses out because it is a walkman.
W810 has EDGE, screen light sensor, and a brighter screen. These are the only advantages over K750 (and of course the Walkman player). These don't make up for lack of active lens cover in my view.
Posted by AbuBasim
On 2008-03-22 15:40:33, max_wedge wrote:
that's quite incorrect. Many low end digicams use cmos
Do you know of any specific models? I know of only one, the Kodak C513.
On 2008-03-22 15:40:33, max_wedge wrote:
and even some DSLR's use cmos (which once was unheard of).
I know. My Canon 300D has a huge CMOS sensor, compared to what you have in camphones (4/3" vs 1/2.8" in K850i). With these large sensors, sensitivity goes up.
Anyway, if you want to argue that CMOS isn't cheaper than CCD then you are fighting a losing battle. It's pretty much an accepted fact, just google or wiki it. Infact, due to the cheapness and lower power consumption of CMOS, the reverse is happening. Due to more development going into CMOS because of it's advantages in small convergence devices, CMOS is becoming as good as CCD, and one day CCD will cease to exist in all but ultra high end gear.
I didn't say that CCD is cheaper than CMOS! I just don't agree with the description of CCD being "VERY, VERY expensive". But I agree that CMOS will one day overtake CCD in quality and low-light performance, just not yet. The two year old i-mobile 902, which currently sells for about USD 200 on eBay, still beats even the latest offerings from Nokia and Sony Ericsson.
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[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2008-03-22 15:16 ]
Posted by max_wedge
the i902 is an exception to the rule though. It is a large and heavy phone.
CMOS is more likely to remain the sensor of choice for phonecam manufacturers as imho CMOS will increase in performance quicker than CCD will decrease in size.
I take your point that CCD aren't very very much more expensive, though at the time of the S700 they were considerably more expensive than cmos to produce at sizes small enough to fit in a camera phone.
And by low end dedicated digicams I meant el cheapo no-name brands! You are right most Kodak, Nikon etc all use CCD. And until recently the same was true of DSLR. I notice Canon now are using all CMOS for their DSLR's. The quality of CMOS is easier to manage at large chip sizes, but as CMOS improves, they will work their way down to all models.
Camera phones will also help drive the improvement of CMOS technology.
Posted by AbuBasim
On 2008-03-22 17:08:39, max_wedge wrote:
the i902 is an exception to the rule though. It is a large and heavy phone.
It is identical in size to the K850i (well actually it's half a millimetre thicker), and about 20 grams lighter.
The only thing on the 902 being good is the camera module, but that's because this part is produced by Sony. The rest is of fairly poor quality. I don't recommend it unless you want to spend 200 dollars on a phone that may break in six months. Which mine just did
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[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2008-03-22 16:21 ]
Posted by max_wedge
well the cheapness of the rest of the 902 then explains how they could afford to use a CCD instead of CMOS.
Posted by AbuBasim
On 2008-03-22 17:17:26, AbuBasim wrote:
I don't recommend it unless you want to spend 200 dollars on a phone that may break in six months. Which mine just did
It actually didn't
I opened the phone. Loose connection to the "vibrator" caused the phone not to detect battery charge and wouldn't allow charging. Now it's working fine again!