Posted by REO
After being a SE Fan for so many years, and sampling just about every model........
The truth of the matter is, regardless of of phone or none phone MP3's, do not compare to the iphone or any Ipods sound quality.
I've tested this over and over.
Conclusion: SE has some catch up to do. Your thoughts ?????
_________________
W810 / 4.0 GB SanDisk [ This Message was edited by: REO on 2008-03-17 16:42 ]
Posted by ramintop
are you serious? are you trying to say that apple ipod has a better sound quality than sony walkman?
Posted by Creid
What headphones you using ????????????
Posted by Paul in LA
On 2008-03-17 17:53:20, ramintop wrote:
are you serious? are you trying to say that apple ipod has a better sound quality than sony walkman?
I'll say that. My iPod touch with D-Jay ear buds sounds better than any walkman phone using the same ear buds that I have owned. And I've owned quite a few. The best sounding one was the W960i (I wonder if that was due to internal memory). The worst was the W610. The level quality between the W960 and the iPod was close. But I still feel the iPod had a richer quality.
[ This Message was edited by: Paul in LA on 2008-03-17 17:03 ]
Posted by djin
i think the new sony's mp4 players sound better than ipod(n i think ipod is a complete piece of shit) Get microsoft zune
.
Posted by NightBlade
Still, I wouldn't pay foir a standalone MP3 player... the one in me phone is good enough for me.
('specially with my new headset)
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all
Firstly we all need to appreciate that best for one person is not necessarily best for anyone else. There are many things that need to be factored in such as the type of Music, Encoded Bit Rates, and just what qualities the listener has heard previously and been exposed to.
Personally i used to think that our Mobiles did a very good job with Muisc payback and to certain extent they do, i also used to feel that the N series devcies did a better job then there Walkman counter parts. Now at that time i used to encode @128kbps AAC and felt that produced a good sound stage with plenty of detail and separation.
Only through a discussion like this on the Forum did i learn the advantage of using even higher bit rates and now encode my Muisc @256kbps AAC.
Now whilst i was happy with the results from my N95 once i got an E90 i wasn't so i decided to get a stand alone player for the first time as realised there really is no ultimate converged device well not yet anyway. I also tried a W950 an W880 and like many on the Forum found that both the Volume was lacking and worse the qaulity was not there either IMO and for me the N series deliver a better sound.
On deciding to get a Music Player i didn't just buy the most popular nor the most expensive or cheapest but i actually went and listened to various devices to see how i felt they sounded as again not everyone likes the same type of sound reproduction.
The first thing i would say that any bundled headset you get with any piece of equipment is adequate at best so really getting an upgraded set of ear phones should account for a fair proportion of your budget. This is not just MO but something that is said on most review sites time after time.
My headphones of choice are Shure EC2g which cost just under £40 delivered and produce a really nice clear sound with good bass and treble response and a nice wide sound stage. As nice as some of you may think Mega Bass or Bass Boost is it is a gimmick that artificially increases bass response and is not giving you real reproduction of the sound but trying to fool you into believing it is giving better bass response sorry but i think it sucks.
Know the units i tried were the new Walkman AW series and the iPod and also the iRiver as there were what appealed to me. The AW was to thin and also didn't really offer enough storage the iRiver i just didn't really like and he iPod had enough storage for my needs and also was nice and solid and well built it also IMO offered the best sound quality. Now i appear to be lucky as it is the 5.5 gen iPod which by all accounts offers the best sound of all the iPods so far.
My Music encoded @256kbps AAC gives a full and rich sound with great treble and bass response and a nice full sound stage with great separation whilst using the Shure headphones. Volume goes louder than i could possibly comfortably listen to it, it also plays all my Video podcast well although for TV shows and Films my E90 does much better job due to it's larger screen. But for what it does primarily playing Muisc it plays it really well and sorry but no Mobile phone can touch it not even close but then an iPod can't make calls.
This is the first and only Apple product i own as untill recently all my Computers, Amps, Speakers and AV equipment had all been Sony only recently have i stopped buying Sony equipment as there has been a marked decrease in thier quality whilst they are still one of the most expensive and i am not a label or brand junkie i but what suits me best and offers value for my money.
Marc
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Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @ http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-17 18:55 ]
Posted by Pop Lover
Sony Ericsson introduced new handset HPM-77 and promise us much much better quality
so We have to test
Posted by REO
On 2008-03-17 17:53:20, ramintop wrote:
are you serious? are you trying to say that apple ipod has a better sound quality than sony walkman?
@Ramintop
Yes ..... Absoloutely !!! If you noticed my opening statement.... I have been a Sony fan for many years. I recently purchased an iphone after noticing decreases in Sony products.
I still own several Sony products including phones and stand alone walkmans. And yes the quality of Apple does surpass Sony at this point in time.
Sometimes you have to be open to change and not be a fanatic, because this clouds your judgement and holds you back from experiencing great quality. Sony has taken a turn in the wrong direction, as a result the competition has stepped up and deliver products that are truly of better quality.
Don't be affraid of change. Change is good. It is what led me to Sony many years ago. Now I've changed once again, looking for better quality and I have found it.
When Apple slips, I will be looking for the next best thing. I am a true consumer with an open mind, and willing to put companies to the test.
Don't be led by adveritzing and great marketing. Put all theses companies to the test. Be honest with yourself, when a product is good admit to it.
Be loyal to yourself and not a brand or company !
Posted by whentheleveebreaks
I'm yet to hear a Walkman phone that even comes close to an iPod or an iPhone. I doubt there ever will be imho
Posted by >500
i think he means ipod better than
phone, not mp3 players!
The ipod doesnt stand a chance against the sony walkman players! (maybe when they are amped)
As for SQ, the closest
phone to an ipod, was the w950 according to Eldar, in the n91 v w950 v ipod review some time ago, w950 came out on top. cant remember his conclusion though!
_________________
May the
be with you![ This Message was edited by: >500 on 2008-03-17 22:36 ]
Posted by Creid
there have been reviews comparing the sound quality of n95 vs w960 they said w960 had better quality ie when many layers were playing at once it reproduced it better.
i use 320 kbs mp3 and i believe its mostly down to the headphones and bitrate.
Posted by adnansanni
Perhaps Sony walkman’s sound quality is good than iPod (I don’t think so). But IMO overall iPod is best. When we talk about a best device we should think about its all feature not only one. Recently I made a little study about Walkman’s phone, iPod, Sony’s player etc and end of the time I found iPod is very good without original headphones and got one. I’m very happy that I made current decision. But every mind shouldn’t be going through this path. Everybody has his own choice.
Posted by Pop Lover
W700 better than W850
and W850 better than W910
that's mean when we get a newer version of walkman we got a bad sound in term of loudness and Clarity
Posted by >500
^
Sony mp3 players are far better than the ipod (SQ wise!) Period!
Sony, along with Cowan, are probably the best sounding players on the market.
any way, moving slightly off topic!
Posted by Pop Lover
^
if you try ipod Touch with good in-ear headset like Bose; you will change your mind
Posted by >500
i highly doubt that pop lover. test the nwz-a818.......
when i had my nw-a808 last year, did some comparisons with my sisters ipod video.... sony was better! (i had good earphones too)
when the ipod is amped, its a different story. but then thats not really fair is it, one with an amp
have a read on Head-Fi........
_________________
May the
be with you![ This Message was edited by: >500 on 2008-03-17 23:10 ]
Posted by Pop Lover
mmmmm
I don't know
But I can guarantee to all Music Lovers a high and Good bass and volume with Moto S9 A2DP
or HBH-DS220
for me much much better than HPM-70 on W910
Posted by >500
theres more to SQ than bass and volume
Posted by Pop Lover
Sorry I wanna to go deaf
bass all the way for me
Posted by Creid
bass and volume are not sound quality, infact the volume will reduce the higher the sound quality.
time and again its been proofed sony walkman are better than ipod. check
Posted by Pop Lover
^^
W700 and W800 was the best quality and everything
Why SE Drawback?!
Posted by REO
Obviously those that believe Sony to be of better quality are either to fanatics to open there true senses, or do not own both Sony/SE and iphone/Ipod.
If you did ...... there is no way around this one...... Take it from a previous SE fan....... I'm very partial on this one.... while Sony does make a competetive MP3, it is still no match for the iphone/ IPod.
No No No way...... not yet atleast..... please be honest folks..... and if you do not own both units , do not bother making comparisons.....
Posted by max_wedge
I've made comparisons. So have many experts on head-fi and other such forums. Some say ipod is better, some say Sony is better. Generally, most agree the latest Sony MP3 players are better than the past and now support MP3 native (ATRAC is dead).
Problem is default codec on ATRAC players was atrac3plus 48Kbps (supposedly equal to 128Kbps but in reality not even close). So most comparisons of older Sony units are flawed from the start.
As far as Walkman phones go, of course we can't compare directly to quality dedicated players, such as Sony, iPod, iRiver, Creative etc, but you certainly can't describe the quality as poor. For something that's a phone and a camera as well, SE Walkman phones are very good quality and nothing to be sneezed at.
Playing a 320Kbps track on my K800 via HPM-70 to my Sony CMT-BX3 aux-in, I can't honestly complain. It's a tiny little bit flat compared to the exact same track on CD (I just listened back to back). On this level equipment the difference is negligble. On high end gear the difference would be more marked but still not enough to claim poor quality.
Any MP3 player is going to sound a little flat compared to CD (unless playing pcm wav).
Other back to back tests I've done using my senheisser HD202's and SE walkmen phones against CD bears the same kind of result.
As far as I am concerned SE Walkmen phones (actually mine's a cybershot not walkman!) can be compared against dedicated mp3 players and come out looking good indeed.
Posted by razec
with the new sound and algorithm technology applied in W980 we'll see if it will shine better than the past walkman phones
i believe W980 has something new inside it's housing (a sound processor like the Icepower amp? or a dedicated sound processor ). W980 is the first phone produced after Mr Komiyama take charge of SE wherein we saw a lot of Japan inheritance to the new SEs
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
I completely agree with Dogmann and max_wedge here. Though I would give Sony Walkmans (not phones) a little more credit.
I currently have a latest model Sony Walkman, a 5th gen ipod 30GB and have tested my girlfriend's 3rd gen ipod nano 8GB, and her brother's latest model 80GB ipod classic. I encode my music at 256kbps and use the top of the line Sony in-ear headphones. I can say that ipods and Sony Walkmans seem very similar and seem to both be very high quality.
I don't notice a huge difference between the brands, but do like Sony's more complete equaliser options. Sony Walkmans don't have the megabass feature like Walkman phones, I think this is because it is rather gimmicky. They do have a very extensive equaliser though.
Now, I've tested a few phones and I own a W910i Walkman phone. It is certainly true that a music phone can't stand up to a dedicated music device yet. I can easily notice the quality difference, and this is with the same headphones and same music files. I've heard the W910i offers the best Walkman phone sound quality yet too. I am not complaining at all, and to the majority it will make no difference or not even be noticed. I certainly don't mind listening on my phone once in a while.
What would I choose though? I would take the 30GB (or more) ipod. Just for the fact it stores more and it has a lot more options for video playback and video filetypes (the Sony is quite limited). I'd only listen to my phone if I forgot my MP3 player.
It is still true, if you want a very high quality music device, well a phone doesn't quite cut it, YET.
Posted by Pop Lover
..........
It is still true, if you want a very high quality music device, well a phone doesn't quite cut it, YET.
but I found 5610 from Nokia Provide what you said
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
I think you will find a lot of people will disagree with that, Pop Lover. But if you personally enjoy the sound quality from it, then that is great! That is what it is all about really, find a device whose quality suits you and run with it!
Posted by carkitter
I still have all my music encoded in 80 kbps .mp3 from my 41Mb K700i days for minimum file size but pumping it through the HPM-64 headphones that came with my new V640i I must say I'm impressed. I can hear guitar and keyboard effects I've never noticed before in songs I've listened to a million times and crystal clear sound that stands out like a sore thumb.
I don't own an iPod or a Walkman nor will I ever bother to. Convergence devices are what I want and
fits the bill well. Infact, the V640i is the first phone I've owned which doesn't feel compromised. It has a REAL digicam and a REAL MP3 player squeezed into a device I'm beginning to think is massively under-estimated here on Esato.
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Yeah definitely personal opinion. I don't mean to sound up myself, but some people such as myself and Dogmann seem more into our music and seem to appreciate finer quality sounds than others. Thats why we'll argue against the music phone more than others will. It really shouldn't matter or bother you if you're happy with what you have!
Posted by whentheleveebreaks
I couldn't even listen to music at 80 kbps.
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all
Actually if you read what i said i was very careful to point out that as individuals what is great for some isn't for others, and also dependant on what each of us has been exposed to will also effect what we find good or even great.
At the end of the day use what ever you are happy with but no one will ever convenience that low bit rates with stock headphones on a Phone will beat a dedicated player with high bit rates and a good set of headphones logic says this is just not possible.
Now whether a Sony MP3 player is better than any other or the Ipod is the best is always down to an individuals personal preference some may prefer a brand and even subconsciously this will make them prefer one set over another as long as you are happy with what you are using enjoy it. But then don't make absurd claims like all iPod's are rubbish just because you don't like them.
It's all well and good to have a preferred brand to look at first but just buying by brand is only cheating yourself of possibly a better option and really that goes for anything you buy.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @ http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-18 10:56 ]
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Quite true
Posted by >500
@oli
there will always be a gap between phone mp3 players and stand alone players, just like there is with camera phones and digi cams!
i love my music. i just dont have the $$$ for a mp3 player
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Yeeeeah maybe. I think they will slowly close the gap though.
I have a digicam, MP3 player and a phone. I prefer to get the best of it all. Hehe.
Posted by >500
[quote]
On 2008-03-18 11:55:55, Dogmann wrote:
But then don't make absurd claims like all iPod's are rubbish just because you don't like them.
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @ http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[quote]
guessing that was aimed at me i guess.
actually, i liked the sq of the 1st gen shuffle, and the touch is quite good now. i prefer sony though, not because of the name, i just prefer the sound from it.........
every ones ears are different. what sounds good to one, might not sound good to another!
Posted by Pop Lover
"what sounds good to one, might not sound good to another!"
So what the use of this thread
I think The Equalizer have to be much better so the SQ will be good for all ears
That's my Opinion
Posted by semo
Just another recent review.
It's about one of the newest sony walkmans. Some comparison is done with Ipods and other players.
http://www.velvetacidchrist.c[....]818-mp3-player-hexfix93s-take/
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Come on! The guy comes right out and says "I hate ipods" in the very first paragraph! Thats hardly an unbiased review!
Posted by semo
Ok, I may agree, but I checked many other forums now and when SQ is considered big majority opinion is that Sony, Iriver and some others are sounding much better. Here's another forum discussing the a similar subject:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=623654
and
http://whathifi.com/forums/t/3605.aspx
Edit: @Oli, BTW which walkman model do you have?
[ This Message was edited by: semo on 2008-03-18 13:18 ]
[ This Message was edited by: semo on 2008-03-18 13:32 ]
Posted by carkitter
On 2008-03-18 11:55:55, Dogmann wrote:
Hi all
Actually if you read what i said ...
...At the end of the day use what ever you are happy with but no one will ever convenience that low bit rates with stock headphones on a Phone will beat a dedicated player with high bit rates and a good set of headphones logic says this is just not possible.
It's all well and good to have a preferred brand to look at first but just buying by brand is only cheating yourself of possibly a better option and really that goes for anything you buy.
And if you read what I said, I didn't rubbish iPods, Walkmans, high bit rates, or the people who choose to use them.
I have had my music on the same bit rate for three years and have noticed a significant difference in the V640i and HPM-64 over the K700i, V800, V630i, and Nokia 6234 I used.
I would like to get a large capacity M2 card so that I can start updating my music to 196 kbps or higher but until then I'm happy with what I've got.
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Slightly off topic but what capacity M2 came with your V640i, carkitter?
Posted by carkitter
256MB same as the V630i.
The V800 I bought recently has a 512MB MSPD in it but as it's not my everyday phone I haven't bothered to add anything other than a few favourite themes and ringtones. It's currently providing the 3G connection I'm using for this post.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-03-18 11:55:55, Dogmann wrote:
At the end of the day use what ever you are happy with but no one will ever convenience that low bit rates with stock headphones on a Phone will beat a dedicated player with high bit rates and a good set of headphones logic says this is just not possible.
but wouldn't it be a fairer comparison to compare THE SAME bitrate and the same headphones on different devices? Rather than the good headphones to stock and high bitrates to low?
The differences are then far less marked.
I use 256Kbps and 320Kbps (I mostly use 320Kbps MP3 from CD, or itunes plus at 256Kbps AAC). For Headphones I use either my HPM-70 headphones, which most reviewers on head-fi and other places compare to the Sony EX71 (the EX71 gets it's share of praise from audiophiles), or the Creative ep630 which is basically a rebadged Sennheiser CX300 (both also get their share of praise), or my full size Sennheiser HD202.
In constrast the stock headphones that come with non-walkmen models are poor. And while carkitter is happy enough, and all power to him, I switched up from the 96Kbps I used on my K700 as soon I had a phone with expandable memory. When I did comparisons back then, I noticed a high degree of clarity being stripped from the 96Kbps tracks even compared to 128Kbps. For example cymbals losing their resonance and instead sounding like they were being hit with a rag damping the cymbal. I couldn't go back to 96Kbps.
Not all people who claim SE music players are good quality use stock headphones and low bitrates.
Posted by manster
Apple IPOD sound's good but for me the Sony NWZ-A810 sounds better the only thing i dont like about Sony is that they don't have enough space but the battery life is better than the Apple IPOD's.
Sony
Pros: Great Battery Life
Sound's Great (For Me)
Cons: Small Screen
Not Enough Space
Apple IPOD's
Pros: Great Space
Cons: Not That Great Battery life
[ This Message was edited by: manster on 2008-03-18 17:11 ]
Posted by bavlondon2
On 2008-03-18 11:55:55, Dogmann wrote:
Hi all
Actually if you read what i said i was very careful to point out that as individuals what is great for some isn't for others, and also dependant on what each of us has been exposed to will also effect what we find good or even great.
At the end of the day use what ever you are happy with but no one will ever convenience that low bit rates with stock headphones on a Phone will beat a dedicated player with high bit rates and a good set of headphones logic says this is just not possible.
Now whether a Sony MP3 player is better than any other or the Ipod is the best is always down to an individuals personal preference some may prefer a brand and even subconsciously this will make them prefer one set over another as long as you are happy with what you are using enjoy it. But then don't make absurd claims like all iPod's are rubbish just because you don't like them.
It's all well and good to have a preferred brand to look at first but just buying by brand is only cheating yourself of possibly a better option and really that goes for anything you buy.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @ http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-18 10:56 ]
Ive had a 5th Gen ipod as well as an ipod touch and was using them with decent Senhissers headphones. Neither compared to the Sony NW - S700. In terms of my listening pleasure Sony came out on top.
Generally this can be hotly debated but ultimatley its based on your own perception so if you think something better than the other then you will go for that.
I remember not to far back you mentioned the N95 8gb produced as good feeback as a 5th gen ipod but to be honest in my experience (and ive had both devices) neither match up to the Sony with noise cancelling technology.
Posted by Dogmann
@Manster
Sorry but i really fail to see how you can say iPod's don't have good battery life anything that will last me a day as far as i am concerned has sufficient battery life. As to charge any devcie last thing at night is hardly difficult or inconvenient i really fail to see why people get so hung up on their battery has to last days.
@Max
My previous headphones where the Sony EX71-SL's and yes they were quite good but they don't get close to my current Shure's the step up in quality is very noticeable.
@The paranoid
If i meant you i would of said so it was directed at everyone who makes absurd claims without any foundation other than it appears a personal bias. I have quite clearly said use what ever you feel suits you best if you think the Walkman player is best use it, i don't so use an iPod simple really neither of us wrong we just use what suits us best. There is never a definitive answer in any of these type of threads same as there is no ultimate mobile for all, or computer or anything else for that matter. The point is to see what others think and maybe expand how we decide what is best for us.
But SE and Sony are quite simply not always the best how ever much some of you want them to be and the proof of this is easy as if SE where the best they would be higher than 4th with under 10% market share and Sony would dominate every other field the sell in which they don't.
@Bav
I did indeed intially say that but i also on going back to the iPod one last time to check then reported that on further checking this was not so and had kept the iPod for listening to Music. I think this can be found in my N95 8gb review and was quite some time ago, as i always report things as i find them and don't twist them to fit a cause as cheating myself would be an incredibly foolish thing to do. Just as well i kept the iPod really as it is just so much better than a Mobile devcie and especially my E90 that isn't as good as the N95/N95 8gb.
Here you go Bav it is on page 1 of my N95 8GB review part two dated 27/12/2007 about one month on from getting the N95 8GB and can be read here.
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=161377&start=0
Marc
_________________
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Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @ http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-18 18:28 ]
Posted by ramintop
On 2008-03-17 21:15:16, REO wrote:
On 2008-03-17 17:53:20, ramintop wrote:
are you serious? are you trying to say that apple ipod has a better sound quality than sony walkman?
@Ramintop
Yes ..... Absoloutely !!! If you noticed my opening statement.... I have been a Sony fan for many years. I recently purchased an iphone after noticing decreases in Sony products.
I still own several Sony products including phones and stand alone walkmans. And yes the quality of Apple does surpass Sony at this point in time.
Sometimes you have to be open to change and not be a fanatic, because this clouds your judgement and holds you back from experiencing great quality. Sony has taken a turn in the wrong direction, as a result the competition has stepped up and deliver products that are truly of better quality.
Don't be affraid of change. Change is good. It is what led me to Sony many years ago. Now I've changed once again, looking for better quality and I have found it.
When Apple slips, I will be looking for the next best thing. I am a true consumer with an open mind, and willing to put companies to the test.
Don't be led by adveritzing and great marketing. Put all theses companies to the test. Be honest with yourself, when a product is good admit to it.
Be loyal to yourself and not a brand or company !
lol im not loyal to sony, i have a cowon d2, but my words are based on audiophile sites that say that the sony walkmans have the warmest and richest sound, and all reviews of the nwza818 say its in a league of its own only based on the sound quality!
Posted by C905
On 2008-03-18 18:10:00, manster wrote:
Apple IPOD sound's good but for me the Sony NWZ-A810 sounds better the only thing i dont like about Sony is that they don't have enough space but the battery life is better than the Apple IPOD's.
Sony
Pros: Great Battery Life
Sound's Great (For Me)
Cons: Small Screen
Not Enough Space
Apple IPOD's
Pros: Great Space
Cons: Not That Great Battery life
[ This Message was edited by: manster on 2008-03-18 17:11 ]
exactly
Posted by JiSm
I got a K850 (apparently it has full Walkman Audio drivers?) and compared to Ipod, it has a smoother sound but not the volume. I like mine LOUD and mostly listen to Slipknot, Deftones etc so a bit of distortion is welcome.
In saying that, I have an 80GB 5th gen and my missus has a 8GB NANO VIDEO and the 5th Gen sounds way different - better - definately louder too - and yea, both are on flat EQ and max volume limit.
Im using Sennheisser HD212 Pros for those that really give a sh...