Posted by whentheleveebreaks
On 2008-02-14 12:17:18, Mizzle wrote:
On 2008-02-14 12:14:47, whentheleveebreaks wrote:
how long has the E90 been out for though?
Quite a while now, but some people are still saying that it's better! Maybe they've been out for quite a while, too...
See that stupid saying i better when the x1 even isnt out yet.
Posted by mib1800
To X1 defenders:-
Taking entirely a HTC designed and manufactured phone hardware and slapping your company logo on it like SE did with X1 is very different from sourcing for parts and building up the entirely hardware platform based on your own innovation and creativity.
The latter ensures that (if you did a good job), your hardware is tip-top and is different and better than any one else. And you can be sure no one will have what you have.
The former, like what SE is doing with X1 is just a chicken way out. The one very real danger is that HTC can easily "pull the rug" under SE feet by coming out with a phone with the same spec-ed hardware as X1 and release it earlier and cheaper.
You may argue that SE put effort into the UI which give it a "new kind of experience". But SE track record in making smartphone UI is horrendous. Look at the horribly user unfriendly UIQ3 UI and that's what you can expect from X1.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-02-14 11:39 ]
Posted by >500
On 2008-02-14 12:36:10, mib1800 wrote:
To X1 defenders:-
Taking entirely a HTC designed and manufactured phone hardware and slapping your company logo on it like SE did with X1 is very different from sourcing for parts and building it up the entirely platform to your own specification.
and your source?
have not said HTC did anything.... Some sites may have hinted some where, but they defo didnt say HTC did 'everything'!
_________________
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be with you![ This Message was edited by: >500 on 2008-02-14 11:41 ]
Posted by mib1800
On 2008-02-14 12:37:38, >500 wrote:
On 2008-02-14 12:36:10, mib1800 wrote:
To X1 defenders:-
Taking entirely a HTC designed and manufactured phone hardware and slapping your company logo on it like SE did with X1 is very different from sourcing for parts and building it up the entirely platform to your own specification.
and your source?
have not said HTC did anything.... They may have hinted some where, but they defo didnt say HTC did 'everything'!
Then you are naive to think otherwise. If SE did extensive research and design of the hardware which can give SE an competitive edge, why the heck you think SE would want to let HTC (a big player in WM) to manufacture it. This is potentially giving one of your future competitor on what you are doing.
Reversely, if HTC have designed the platform that X1 is using, then I doubt HTC would openly give all its design secrets on the hardware to SE. At any time HTC can reign in SE when it does not like what SE is doing. A very good analogy is the licensing of S60 OS to Samsung. Do you think that Samsung can ever come out with a S60 phone that can beat a Nokia S60 in terms of software/OS capability?
Posted by XPHCTOC
I wonder if the future 12GB and 16GB micro sdhc (announced this year) will be supported by the X1. I've read WiMo 6 will support SDHC cards up to 32 GB. what about the micro SDHC?
[ This Message was edited by: XPHCTOC on 2008-02-14 12:04 ]
Posted by apolloa
I just love the way people on here are stating as facts what SE and HTC have done. The deal is though NONE of you have ANY idea of what SE has done, for all you know HTC could of just helped SE design the main board cause of it's experience in this. And to say that HTC can 'pull the rug' is also stupid. IF HTC did anything to the X1 then SE will have no doubt have patented it to the hilt and their will be contracts in place to stop people pulling out, which is stupid to say anyway as your now predicting the X1 won't sell so all the makers will ditch the idea.
This thread reminds of the new G series thread, people stating as fact the phone only has WiFi B, they use old CPU's, even the fact the interface is not finger based. Then lo and behold SE do confirm it all as FACT themselves and all the people posting are totally wrong. If you want to slag of SE fine, otherwise if you guy's are going to post ridiculous statements then perhaps you should start a thread in the rumours section?
I'm sorry for the rant but to be honest, SE have launched some fantastic new models and all I've seen on Esato is a lot of SE hate posts.
Posted by xenia
I repeate. X1 was disigned in SE from first to last detail said Eldar from MR.
HTC only produced it. IT IS 100% SE product
Posted by goldenface
On 2008-02-14 13:16:29, apolloa wrote:
I just love the way people on here are stating as facts what SE and HTC have done. The deal is though NONE of you have ANY idea of what SE has done,
Amen to that! So unless anyone is absolutely sure then they should keep quiet as its all speculation otherwise.
On 2008-02-14 13:21:43, xenia wrote:
I repeat. X1 was designed in SE from first to last detail said Eldar from MR.
HTC only produced it. IT IS 100% SE product
If this is true then the SE is simply outsourcing manufacturing to HTC. Like has been said before there is nothing wrong with that.
Its simply amazing how desperate some people are to criticise a device that they know so little of. Quite pathetic!
Posted by mib1800
I thought a website has openly said X1 is rebranded HTC. And we know that SE has been in talk with HTC. And the rumor that SE is coming out with a WM was quite recent. So it is unlikely that SE has develop from scratch the X1 given the lead time.
Since SE did not come out to disprove this fact that X1 is not an HTC platform(as it would be in SE best interest to do so if it had created most of the X1 platform itself), so it is totally justifiable to assume X1 is more of a HTC device than SE own's.
Posted by goldenface
Sorry, but how can 'not admitting or denying something' possibly translate to 'so lets all assume'?
Posted by islandprd
On 2008-02-14 12:36:10, mib1800 wrote:
Taking entirely a HTC designed and manufactured phone hardware and slapping your company logo on it like SE did with X1
Do you even KNOW what are you talking about? 
Its simply amazing how desperate some people are to criticise a device that they know so little of. Quite pathetic!
Agree
Those Nub Cakes have no idea how business works yet talk so much
Back to the topic: Does anyone here has a link to an actual comparison between E90 screen vs X1?
Posted by anonymuser
@mib - nobody but you has said "rebranded" - that's just your spin. Engadget made a big deal of their claim that HTC made the X1, but then that should have come as a surprise to nobody - reports of a manufacturing order from SE to HTC were rife months ago.
Let me just point something out about the X1. On paper, it's pretty much the sort of spec you would expect to see from a leading WM phone in the latter half of this year, and in that sense yes, this could just be the Tytn 3. The spec list is utterly solid, and is exactly what many Tytn 2 owners will be looking for; so far, so HTC.
But do you know what's really exceptional about the X1? It's not so much the screen, it's not the RAM, it's certainly not the GPS - as much as it might excite people here, it's all old news in the WM community. No, the really amazing thing is the design. Not just the looks of it, but the size.
Now HTC are the leaders in the WM field, they've been knocking out these things for years, and they're very good at knocking out polished, competent WM smartphones, but they've never managed to pull off something like the X1 before - something that's class leading in both specification and size. Show me another WM qwerty slider (Pro, not Standard) that's even close to the size of the X1 - there isn't one.
Could HTC pull this off on their own? Well take a look at their back catalogue. The Tytn 2 is a big phone, barely different to the Tytn 1, and - at a mighty 190g - actually heavier than its predecessor. In fact many of HTC's lines have actually been getting bigger, bulkier, as they keep adding features year on year. And now here comes the X1 - what you'd have us believe is just the Tytn 3 with an SE sticker on it - and suddenly its no bigger than the average candy bar phone, and around 45g lighter, despite the fact it's got an all metal finish and a bigger battery. Now I ask you - is that all HTC's doing?
I would say not. I would say this phone is the result of a partnership - HTC's technical knowledge in the field of WM platforms, coupled with SE's fanatical flair for miniaturisation, not to mention batteries - and of course with SE's design all over the exterior. I say again, look at any previous HTC phone and then look at the X1, and tell me HTC did all that while they were waiting for a branding partner...
And another thing - don't forget that the apparently "secret" relationship with HTC may not be all about the X1 - HTC have gone on record as wanting to merge with SE in the past. Who knows what other talks may have been going on before, during, and after the X1's development?
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-02-14 13:47 ]
Posted by mib1800
On 2008-02-14 14:20:58, goldenface wrote:
Sorry, but how can 'not admitting or denying something' possibly translate to 'so lets all assume'?
Why is it wrong to make reasonable assumption? Or is the assumption put a damper on SE diehard fans sky-high hype of the "SE" X1. If X1 is good, then it doesnt matter who made it.
@Boinng
The HTC Touch Dual size is inline with X1 which is out. It just lack wifi + a better camera which I think HTC can incorporate in the next incarnation with ease. Dont forget X1 is 9-10 months away. So dont be surprise that the X1 hardware is actually using the successor of Touch platform.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-02-14 14:01 ]
Posted by goldenface
@mib1800
Do you really think its good for the thead to start a discussion and a string of posts based on an assumption? This is the type of discusssion that would take place in the 'Rumours' forum as after all, thats all it is - a rumour.
Posted by anonymuser
Mib, please explain, why would you be comparing the X1 to a Touch Dual rather than the Tytn II?
Aside from the wifi (which it doesn't have) does the Touch Dual have GPS? Does it have a 1500mah battery? Does it have a full length, full qwerty keyboard? I can give you a clue if you like!
Sorry, but the only valid comparison to an existing HTC product is the Tytn II. And as much as I love my Tytn II, the X1 is quite obviously in a different league in design terms.
Posted by MWEB
If it's good, who gives a rats ass WHO put WHAT into it!!
Posted by SE76
On 2008-02-13 14:26:49, Bhavv wrote:
On 2008-02-13 14:23:12, SE76 wrote:
This phone is too big, even more than the w960i.
Definetly a bidnezz phone and not my taste.
It is actually very small as it has a fold out keypad!
The length of the phone appears to be similar to the K800i, and it doesnt appear anywhere near as chunky as the I phone or N95.
Its a winner in terms of Size to features!
FULL KEYPAD ZOMG!
Nah the length is 110, so its a bit longer than the w960i with its 109 and even longer than the K800i - 105 mm,
its also a good bit wider than the K800 - 47 compared to 53 mm.
But unless you been there and had it in your hand, than I guess you have a better feeling than me since I only got live pictures.
Cheers.
By the way nothing is as chunky as the "spaceship" phone N95.
Posted by al_1982a
Boinng you have a PM my friend
Posted by Arne Anka
On 2008-02-14 14:55:36, mib1800 wrote:
Why is it wrong to make reasonable assumption?
What makes your assumption more reasonable than anyone elses with the rumors (not facts) we have ?
Further back in this thread I added a post with some links to Ericsson Mobile Platforms (EMP) and their new platform U370 ( http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=164743&start=750 ) What we know for sure is:
- U370 is one of the first EMP platform supporting Windows (and Linux).
- From U370 pressrelease: "The first reference design of the U370 platform is developed for Windows Mobile".
- First samples of U370 was delivered to EMPs customers during Q4 2007.
- U370 will hit the market during second half of 2008.
- SE is one of EMPs biggest customers.
- X1 will hit the market somewhere during the second half of 2008 (same as U370).
From this I would say it is reasonable to "assume" X1 is based on U370. In this respect X1 does not differ from any other phone SE has, since to my best knowledge all SE phones are based on EMP platforms.
In same post I also posted that EMP had signed an agreement with HTC during the Autumn of 2007, so HTC has basically access to same platforms as SE uses. With this in mind, HTC and SE could potentially cooperate in some form, but there is no hard evidence of this so far beside different rumors on various sites.
It is of course possible SE takes advantage of HTCs experience with Windows and HTC takes advantage of SEs experience with EMP platforms to create great devices.
However, based on just rumors I would not make any big assumptions regarding SE vs. HTC despite that EMP+HTC agreement and HTC+MS agreement in someway may relate to SE and their X1.
[ This Message was edited by: Arne Anka on 2008-02-14 16:04 ]
Posted by willo
SE come up with a great-looking feature-packed phone. I can't understand why people are "knocking it" already.
Stop whining and give it a chance will you, this is a time to be enthusiastic!
Posted by MWEB
On 2008-02-14 18:05:23, willo wrote:
SE come up with a great-looking feature-packed phone. I can't understand why people are "knocking it" already.
Stop whining and give it a chance will you, this is a time to be enthusiastic!
Some people like to argue purely for the sake of it, SE purists are grumbling about the HTC content, and Nokia fans are just cheesed off that something with an SE badge actually is a decent high end device
Posted by DragonEye
what's all the fuss??? its; obvious that the x1 is a windows phone made by HTC with a SE logo and a SE xperica front panel... why is that so hard to believe??.. it's not like SE is gonna completely re-write WM.. SE would only skin over it... see HTC Touch....
in regards to why SE went with WM.. it's obvious.. the new UIQ isn't ready to show yet.. this distracts people for a while.. and offers a "decent" solution for the people that have been complaining about SE's ass smartphones
this is the frst xperia product.. i'm sure we'll see many more by the time q3 and q4 roll around and they'll be in the variety of UIQ.. too bad still so far away though...
Posted by crossmatched
what will be the battery capacity of X1? still unknown?
Posted by S4k1s
On 2008-02-14 14:55:36, mib1800 wrote:
Why is it wrong to make reasonable assumption? Or is the assumption put a damper on SE diehard fans sky-high hype of the "SE" X1. If X1 is good, then it doesnt matter who made it.
Sry but I find this post disturbing.
"SE" X1??
I belive it is better to shut up than to misslead other people.
If you do not know what sort of contract
and HTC have then why do you start making assumptions about not only the contract but also about new products?
Does HTC have a Development contract?
Does HTC have a PCB assembly contract?
Does HTC have a Box assembly contract?
Does HTC have a Manufacturing contract?
We do NOT know what sort of contract
and HTC have, so lets not start making assumptions. On the other hand what we DO know is that the phones name is "Sony Ericsson X1".
Maybe we should start calling every phone by their respective OEM manufacturers name - Foxconn, Flextronics, High Tech Computer.
Foxconn N95i anyone?...
Posted by Mizzle
Crossmatch,
Current one is 1400 mAh, I believe.
EDIT: 1500 mAh, I mean.
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Unofficial Sony Ericsson Blog
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dedicated blog ever![ This Message was edited by: Mizzle on 2008-02-14 18:45 ]
Posted by stetwin
On 2008-02-14 15:24:14, mweb6161 wrote:
If it's good, who gives a rats ass WHO put WHAT into it!!
Amen to that!
The phone looks awesome and is sure to put SE back on track when it comes to a high-end handset, its going to be a long 8+ months waiting for it, thats for sure!
Posted by Dogmann
@prototype_bo
Sorry a Touchscreen device doesn't make it a better device it may be some peoples preference but the simple fact is there are more non touchscreen smart phones sold. So this touchscreen is necessary, a touchscreen makes the best experience is just personal preference nothing more and certainly not how the majority feel either as the sales figures prove. Not forgetting that a Touchscreen is not as high a quality as non touch screen as to clarity and visibility in direct sunlight.
I used Touchscreen devcies from a Casio EM500 plus various Ipaq's and a then UIQ devices right through to June 2006. When after my disappointment of the M600 i choose a different OS in June 2006 and since then i have not used a Touch screen device and guess what not once in 20 months have i had i really miss my Touchscreen moment not one.
@Mizzle
That's assuming i haven't upgraded to the next generation device by then but what ever you may think my by then over year old E90 will still be better than some WM devcie. Which ever way you want to look at it my E90 is already here and now and working not far off in the future and that really is the only difference that counts. Show me an SE devcie when it's delivered and working and then i will be worth comparing to whatever devcie i am using at the time who knows it may be a P5 and is the X1 going to kill the P5 as well then?
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-02-14 20:17 ]
Posted by buntoo
what will be the approximate price of this phone?
Posted by C905
On 2008-02-14 21:16:15, Dogmann wrote:
@prototype_bo
Sorry a Touchscreen device doesn't make it a better device it may be some peoples preference but the simple fact is there are more non touchscreen smart phones sold. So this touchscreen is necessary, a touchscreen makes the best experience is just personal preference nothing more and certainly not how the majority feel either as the sales figures prove. Not forgetting that a Touchscreen is not as high a quality as non touch screen as to clarity and visibility in direct sunlight.
I used Touchscreen devcies from a Casio EM500 plus various Ipaq's and a then UIQ devices right through to June 2006. When after my disappointment of the M600 i choose a different OS in June 2006 and since then i have not used a Touch screen device and guess what not once in 20 months have i had i really miss my Touchscreen moment not one.
@Mizzle
That's assuming i haven't upgraded to the next generation device by then but what ever you may think my by then over year old E90 will still be better than some WM devcie. Which ever way you want to look at it my E90 is already here and now and working not far off in the future and that really is the only difference that counts. Show me an SE devcie when it's delivered and working and then i will be worth comparing to whatever devcie i am using at the time who knows it may be a P5 and is the X1 going to kill the P5 as well then?
Marc
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Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-02-14 20:17 ]
it's good to have both a touch-screen and a naigation-pad just like x1, g900 and g700
Posted by milli260876
doesn't the htc touch cruise do all this? without the keyboard obviously....
looks just like a slight re-vamp of the tytn for me where's uiq 4 then se are bottling it i reckon iphone 2 will probably blow this out the water!
By the way i've a w950i thats great and was hoping for some advancement on this but left a little flat by the w960....
Posted by BobaFett
@mizzle so it will be anew batt out on the market the, right? afaik there is no 1500 mah batt by se yet
Posted by Bhavv
Other touch screens might not be good, but
touchscreen will be.
People will buy the X1 over the E90 for two simple reasons, 1) it looks a thousand times better,
2) its a lot smaller.
And lets not forget that the key selling point, sorry, I mean the only selling point of the I phone was its touch screen and UI.
Posted by BobaFett
how do u know that se touchscreen will be better then any other, when u didnt tested it yet? next to it, design is a matter of taste, so u cant say, that xperia looks better then e90. maybe for u, but some might have another point on this.
Posted by tonchy
Once again i would like anyone to tell me what makes the X1 a cutting edge device. is there any feature that cannot be found on other device in the market now? Let's not be blind.
Not only all of the features packed in the X1 are already out there but imagine the features of new devices that will be out when X1 finally hits the market. it is really sad to see blind fanatism.
And please, we should not be compairing the X1 with devices that are out now. it is useless, biased and misleading coz devices that are out already will always win, you know why coz they are out. Again it is as naive as saying that the Camera phone
will release in 2011 is definately gonna take better pictures than the N82. please!!!
I am
fan and i am a bit dissapointed for the lack of M2 support and Fastport support. which makes me guess (i am just guessing) was involved only in the housing and the panels design.
I hope P5i surprises all of us.
Posted by NightBlade
@tonchy:
OK then, give me ONE example of a phone which has all of X1's features, will you.
Posted by BobaFett
we could put it on that way aswell : what does x1 offer more, hat the other devices dont? as i see, that u can run 2 different os is the only one, where i say, wow, this is sg new
Posted by apolloa
On 2008-02-14 22:47:33, milli260876 wrote:
doesn't the htc touch cruise do all this? without the keyboard obviously....
looks just like a slight re-vamp of the tytn for me where's uiq 4 then se are bottling it i reckon iphone 2 will probably blow this out the water!
By the way i've a w950i thats great and was hoping for some advancement on this but left a little flat by the w960....
In regards to the iPhone it can go and stuff itself to be honest. Yes it's a great device, but, O2 in the UK have exclusive rights for 5 years, so that's 5 years of ridiculous contract prices and the fact you'll have to pay a fortune for the phone as well as the contract for the next 5 years. If Apple have shifted loads at £269 a go plus contract then they will no doubt carry on with that.
So stuff Apple IMO, I have a Mac Book Pro and LOVE it, I think the iPhone is great, but they are showing far too much greed and backward pricing for the current UK market. I like to get my phone on whatever network I want and for free thanks so the X1 has already trounced ANYTHING Apple can make cause of this.
Posted by _vAmpiRe_
On 2008-02-15 01:26:46, tonchy wrote:
Not only all of the features packed in the X1 are already out there but imagine the features of new devices that will be out when X1 finally hits the market. it is really sad to see blind fanatism.
Just a frienly question: What other new devices? I didn't see any new devices revealed witch could compare to X1... The NOKIA N96 was revealed by the same time as X1, but it still wan't ship until the summer... Sooo... That gives us a gap of 1 to 3 months (at most) from N96 is hitting the stores till we see the X1 for sale... I haven't seen or heard anything about the TyTN3, or the iPhone2 for that matter.. Are they yet revealed? And if/when they do, will they start selling them right on, or will there be a couple of months waiting for them to ship? In that case, the X1 will get a headstart until the competitors enters the scene... Then there will be X2, then iPhone3, then X3 and so on...
I haven't done some research regarding other models/brands, because i'm quite comfortable with the looks & specs of the X1.. It will probably be my next phone, unless the P5 is revealed soon...
As I mentioned in the beginning: This was just a friendly question... I don't want to start a war here... It's afterall a
X1 DISCUSSION thread... [ This Message was edited by: _vAmpiRe_ on 2008-02-15 01:11 ]
Posted by tonchy
@nightblade
like bobafett says there is probably not one with exactly the same features but all the features are already out there. devices like the TyTnII which is ALREADY OUT is capable of competing agains the x1. It packs gps, 3mp camera, WinMo, touchscreen, qwerty keyboard, wlan, hsdpa, etc..
and please imagine what will be out by the time X1 hits the market.
Posted by BobaFett
of course there will be probably x2 and x3 etc but the fact is, that aslong nokia is able to launch a device asap, se takes so long time... the fans are waiting for p5 since ages. now se showed us x1, but imo it will be out til xmas, then se did good job, cos they usually dealy. so all i wanna say is, that as mentioned here so many times, its a really interesting device, but it smells already now a bit outdated, now imagine that in 6 month...
Posted by apolloa
@boba
IMO it won't be out of date, if this new MS format takes of then surely the other manufacturers will be playing catch up to release phones with the same interface and OS, if WMO 7 is similar to this then SE will have a head start in handsets for that?
I do agree with the delay aspect though, after the P990 fiasco. I got the P1i to replace it but that was after only a few months of having the P990 and I got it not long after release! I'm hoping the G900 will be out on time, I think it will be cause it looked pretty mush finished at the show. Let's hope SE learnt from it's mistakes eh?
Posted by _vAmpiRe_
On 2008-02-15 02:16:08, BobaFett wrote:
of course there will be probably x2 and x3 etc but the fact is, that aslong nokia is able to launch a device asap, se takes so long time... the fans are waiting for p5 since ages. now se showed us x1, but imo it will be out til xmas, then se did good job, cos they usually dealy. so all i wanna say is, that as mentioned here so many times, its a really interesting device, but it smells already now a bit outdated, now imagine that in 6 month...
Yes, let's hope that
with HTC's help and expertice with WM can bring X1 to public quicker than earlier phones...
...
I was smiling a bit when reading people complaining about X1's introduction.. That X1 couldn't show more than a couple of screens, not finished, people couldn't test it for themselves and so on... It's just like Auto-shows... There is allways prototypes (engine not working, electrics doesn't work and similar)... You see the shell of the car and thinks "Wooow, that's a nice car..." You see the car, hear about the specs, THEN you'll have to wait for it to show up in your local store (or at your neighbours house)... This is a quite normal prosess, and the problem here is timing.... If you reveal the product too soon before finished, people get bored waiting for it to come out, and maybe goes for another brand.. If you reveal the product to late (either finished or nearly complete), other companies/brands might have come up with a better idea, and again you loose sale...
Most of the time, it's better to be early to give people something to look forward to, keeping them from buying other brands...
Posted by BobaFett
"Most of the time, it's better to be early to give people something to look forward to, keeping them from buying other brands..."
good point, but then again the p5 pops up in my mind. se didnt showed anything yet in that direction, instead of it, sg total different, the xperia, what really amazed many of us.
Posted by rss_ndrsn
Gsmarena.com posted an interesting video of X1 in action. The video shows how the panel switch to another panel in an animated way.
I was suprised because I thought demo guys were not allowed to show other homescreen. But the guy on the video was doing it. The UI is impressive. It makes me forget about P5.
X1 is definitely the phone to watch out this year.
[ This Message was edited by: rss_ndrsn on 2008-02-15 02:23 ]
Posted by famous12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-JaxMutdps&feature=related
Posted by BobaFett
it made me laugh... thx
Posted by G-Izzat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzYo9tTXORs
Posted by famous12
On 2008-02-15 03:46:22, BobaFett wrote:
it made me laugh... thx
ur welcome ! funny as hell man ! thats guy sounded as if he is hurt.."ohh no no no!"
[ This Message was edited by: famous12 on 2008-02-15 04:24 ]
[ This Message was edited by: famous12 on 2008-02-15 04:24 ]
Posted by jakontil
taking a glimpse at some of the posters, this poor discussion thread has become the old hated
VS Nokia, poor thing.....
a good nice thread for discussing a coming soon product has been tempered badly
Posted by BobaFett
i dont think its a hate thread. imo, all what could have been told about x1 atm, was told. so a bit compariosn and some personal opinions are alwasy more then welcome