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Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 discussion


Click to view updated thread with images




Posted by S4k1s

On 2008-05-28 22:36:57, WhyBe wrote:

On 2008-05-28 21:46:21, Dogmann wrote:
@WhyBe

Yes it is, and i have pointed out in the relevant thread this will be available months before the X1. Also it is very likely to be in various Network branded versions to so just who will buy the X1 later and Sim Free? is the biggest question.

Business users are used to getting there devices subsidized or free so i really doubt they will want to pay for a Sim Free X1 at a premium price. This i think besides it coming to market later is going to be it's biggest hurdle to over come and be successful. As really there are just not enough SE fans that are going to be willing to buy it sim free as opposed to heavily subsidized by a Network.

Unfortunately this goes for the US to where HTC also have carrier branded and subsidized versions that again will be available months before the X1. I really can't see carriers carrying a device so similar to one they already have.

Marc

Well, I will for one. I don't expect to get X1 subsidized because I didn't get my p910 that way either. I'm also looking into getting the X1i, as opposed to the X1a to remove the video framerate restriction. I believe the HSDPA band in my area (2100) will work with the 'i' version.

There are obviously going to be contenders to the X1 as we have seen in this thread. But for me, the magic formula for me to choose any device is features, relative small size and sexiness. I need all three. I'll check out the Raphael and Diamond when my at&t buddy starts carrying them around, but, I doubt if they will have the appeal to me the way X1 does. I like the "complete package" supposedly being offered by . So I don't mind waiting for the U.S. Christmas season to release the X1.


Sry but no device can be "sexy"...
Only Humans can ;]


Posted by WhyBe

Sry but no device can be "sexy"...
Only Humans can ;]


So, I'll take the Lamborghini while you drive the bus

Posted by Dogmann
@WhyBe

I have no idea why you brought the N95 into the conversation but the E90 i have has a 4" inch screen and the video quality in H.264 is nothing short of stunning. Actually you are wrong 3gp is meant for the constraints of a mobile, which is why nearly every mobile supports it but not the better quality H.264. so I'm afraid you have that the wrong way round.

OK so you are going to happy to drop a load of $$$$'s for an X1 but do you really think businesses are? or even your average WM smart phone user who is used to getting their devices subsidized? of course assuming they will wait the extra months for the X1 to arrive.

I am not bashing the X1 just pointing out that it has some serious competition to over come and especially on price.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-28 22:29 ]

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-28 23:28:12, Dogmann wrote:
@WhyBe
...Actually you are wrong 3gp is meant for the constraints of a mobile, which is why nearly every mobile supports it but not the better quality H.264. so I'm afraid you have that the wrong way round.
/font>

No, you read it backwards. You just repeated what I said.

I have no idea why you brought the N95 into the conversation but the E90 i have has a 4" inch screen and the video quality in H.264 is nothing short of stunning.

I thought someone pointed out the N95 as the video champ. Well anyways, the e90 appears to be the equivalent in video to the X1-->VGA @ 30fps. X1 does mp4 and h.263 all at 30fps. It does h.264 @ 15fps. So what's the difference between X1 and e90 video besides display size?

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-28 22:52 ]

Posted by S4k1s

On 2008-05-28 23:06:03, WhyBe wrote:

Sry but no device can be "sexy"...
Only Humans can ;]


So, I'll take the Lamborghini while you drive the bus


So the Lambo can sex u up?
Sry I fail to get your point.

Posted by badassmam
Getting a Lambo to sex you up would be painful let alone a bus.

HTC Raphael is very similar to the X1 but will be out before and the TouchFlo looks faster, more stable and more impressive than the X1 panels. Its a matter of opinion as to which you would buy but I would go for the HTC personally.

Since HTC and SE worked together to make the X1, you could always see HTC making their own version. Its like having dinner with your worst enemy, they have probobly p*ssed in your drink and will have a knife ready for when you turn your back.

X1 on UIQ would be excellent since there is nothing like it on the market with those specs.

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-29 00:39:25, S4k1s wrote:

On 2008-05-28 23:06:03, WhyBe wrote:

Sry but no device can be "sexy"...
Only Humans can ;]


So, I'll take the Lamborghini while you drive the bus


So the Lambo can sex u up?
Sry I fail to get your point.

If I have to explain, then there's no hope for you

Posted by mib1800

On 2008-05-28 23:50:42, WhyBe wrote:
I thought someone pointed out the N95 as the video champ. Well anyways, the e90 appears to be the equivalent in video to the X1-->VGA @ 30fps. X1 does mp4 and h.263 all at 30fps. It does h.264 @ 15fps. So what's the difference between X1 and e90 video besides display size?



well, N95/8G, N82, N93 all rec 30fps video at VGA resolution but at a much higher (5 times) bitrate giving much better video/sound quality than X1 h.263 low bitrate format.

Posted by razec

On 2008-05-29 03:50:17, mib1800 wrote:

On 2008-05-28 23:50:42, WhyBe wrote:
I thought someone pointed out the N95 as the video champ. Well anyways, the e90 appears to be the equivalent in video to the X1-->VGA @ 30fps. X1 does mp4 and h.263 all at 30fps. It does h.264 @ 15fps. So what's the difference between X1 and e90 video besides display size?



well, N95/8G, N82, N93 all rec 30fps video at VGA resolution but at a much higher (5 times) bitrate giving much better video/sound quality than X1 h.263 low bitrate format.


That means the powerVr GPU used was more powerful than the video accelerator integrated in the Qualcomm CPU. anyway if only Qualcomm utilized a separate ATi chip then the results will not be likely what is going on especially since Ati M100 chip has been for a while now.

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-29 03:50:17, mib1800 wrote:

On 2008-05-28 23:50:42, WhyBe wrote:
I thought someone pointed out the N95 as the video champ. Well anyways, the e90 appears to be the equivalent in video to the X1-->VGA @ 30fps. X1 does mp4 and h.263 all at 30fps. It does h.264 @ 15fps. So what's the difference between X1 and e90 video besides display size?



well, N95/8G, N82, N93 all rec 30fps video at VGA resolution but at a much higher (5 times) bitrate giving much better video/sound quality than X1 h.263 low bitrate format.


What are those bitrates for the Nokias? What are the X1's bitrates for mp4, h.264 and h.263?

Posted by aksd
@WhyBe

The N95/E90/N82 have better multimedia capabilities than the X1 at the moment, especially the US version . Just because you like the phone does'nt make it the best now does it .

N95/E90/N81: VGA @ 30fps H.264(nothing else matters)
X1 EU version: VGA @ 15fps H.264(VGA @ 30 fps H.263)
X1 US version: VGA @ 30fps H.263 not support for H.264

Now dont go on about H.264 being pointless with 3GP being a phone standard, these days phones have to become extensions of your PC, compatibility is of most importance, H.264 is future proof, and since we're going to end up paying quite a bit for the X1, it should be an all out power horse should'nt it?

EDIT: Btw did you see the Raphael has got video out, pity its using the 7201A processor and not the 7200A processor



That means the powerVr GPU used was more powerful than the video accelerator integrated in the Qualcomm CPU. anyway if only Qualcomm utilized a separate ATi chip then the results will not be likely what is going on especially since Ati M100 chip has been for a while now.



Actually speaking the ATi impelentation is supposed to be better than the Power VR one, no idea why it's not being implemented properly, or the practical implemntation is'nt as effective as the theoretical one.


[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-29 04:30 ]

Posted by razec

On 2008-05-29 05:23:09, aksd wrote:
Actually speaking the ATi impelentation is supposed to be better than the Power VR one, no idea why it's not being implemented properly, or the practical implemntation is'nt as effective as the theoretical one.


[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-29 04:30 ]


Or it could be the fact that Qualcomm 7200A did not used ATi chip at all and instead used a weaker and cheaper chip?

Posted by aksd
Thats not possible as its a System on Chip, thats like 1 processor that does many things, The MSM7200A has the Ati chip built in as well as GPS, dual CPUs, 2 DSP etc.

Posted by razec

On 2008-05-29 05:40:06, aksd wrote:
Thats not possible as its a System on Chip, thats like 1 processor that does many things, The MSM7200A has the Ati chip built in as well as GPS, dual CPUs, 2 DSP etc.



What specific type of ATi chip then?

Posted by aksd
No idea, I have the white paper on the 7200 posted here earlier, no idea on specifics, a search on google might net you some results.

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-29 05:23:09, aksd wrote:
@WhyBe

N95/E90/N81: VGA @ 30fps H.264(nothing else matters)
X1 EU version: VGA @ 15fps H.264(VGA @ 30 fps H.263)
X1 US version: VGA @ 30fps H.263 not support for H.264



Well those numbers alone don't tell the whole story. The next logical question is how is H.264 implemented in the Nokia's? IOW, all H.264 implementations aren't equal. Some devices support more components of the standard than others. IOW, depending on the codec, SE's mp4/30fps implementation could possibly look just as good as Nokia's H.264/30fps implementation. I'm just saying, those specs (above) alone don't make one better than the other.

Let's see:
E90 @ 30 fps H.264 with a 333MHz CPU.
X1 @ 15 fps H.264 with a 528MHz CPU.
I wonder if they both are using the same implementation of H.264 and bitrates?
An inferior implementation of H.264 would not look any better than mp4.

Just speculating though
Flame on.....

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-29 06:01 ]

Posted by taffypride
Very sexy looking phone. Fell in love at first sight.
Questions - what version of Windows Mobile, can we change the web browser to something other than Internet Explorer, how big a memory card can you put in and the most important question of all - how much and what networks (PAYG or Monthly Contract)?

Posted by iwantfatty
I am also a little bit in love after seeing this phone, but I do have one question, is the screen gonna be glass AKA iphone style, or the awful plastic that I have on my W950i, which seemed to get a dent if I even looked at it funny

-fatty

Posted by Dogmann
@WhyBe

Sorry i forgot to correct you earlier as you have one thing very wrong when you say,

"3gp is just a version of H.264 modified for the constraints of mobile phones."

As that is just not right 3gp and H.264 are both codecs of Mp4 and 3gp is not a codec of H.264 at all. 3gp is a lower quality codec designed to be used in Mobile phones but it is MP4.

For more information on 3gp check out this link

http://www.3gp.com/

Again what you are saying about 15fps being a better implementation than found on Nokia's is just absurd and there is just no evidence to prove this or how this would work in reality.

A lot depends on the source file you are converting from be it Avi, mpeg or whatever format it is.

My conversion from films and TV shows are all done @ 25fps and custom settings for the 800x352 screen.

For example an episode of Smallville is downloaded in Avi @624x352 @23fps so would not play in fullscreen on either my E90 or the X1 it needs to converted first to a format that is supported and in the case of the E90 that is H.264 as that gives the best quality.

A film like I am Legend also comes in Avi but in 678x288 @23fps so once again to play in full screen needs to converted to a format my device or the X1 supports.

You may find you will only be bale to convert to the lower quality 3gp as although the initial source is 23fps it plays smoothly at 25 fps H.264. It may not play smoothly at 15fps. If i have time later i may convert a file @15fps and see what the results are, but i really doubt it will play as well as @25fps.

So it may prove pointless in importing a Euro version that will have no warranty in the US just to get 15fps H.264.


Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-29 12:29 ]

Posted by deepsme
Some side by side pics of Touch Diamond, Xperia X1 and iPhone...










Pick and choose...


Source

Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Huh, it looks like they've redesigned the X1 slightly (for the better) around the mini-USB port and the screen orientation button (from what I remember). I'd take the X1 all the way - The hardware keyboard would be great and I really really love the design of the X1. So cool.

Posted by WhyBe
@Dogmann, you should not speed read my posts. You are misinterpreting my points.

I said X1 mp4@30fps may be just as good as e90's h.264@30fps depending on the codec implementation. Bitrate is crucial. Of course 15fps H.264 in the X1 would be useless. 15fps sucks in any format. Remember, H.264 is extremely CPU intensive in the encode and decode.

3gp is just a version of H.264 modified for the constraints of mobile phones.

Perhaps my sentence structure is confusing. Let me rephrase it: 3gp is just a version of H.264. However, 3gp is modified for the constraints of mobile phones.



Posted by Dogmann
@WhyBe

Maybe you should also not speed read my posts as quite simply 3gp is NOT a version of H.264 and never will be 3gp like H.264 is Mpeg4. H.263 is also a version of Mpeg4 and both H.263 and 3gp are not as a high quality as H.264. You have even posted that they are all codecs of Mpeg4 so i really can't understand how or why you think H.264 is part of 3gp as quite clearly it isn't.

So that you don't get confused the 30fps Mpeg4 in the X1 is 3gp or H.263 and both of these offer lower quality than H.264 the X1 is only able to render H.264 @15fps.

The reason that H.264 is the preferred codec is that it gives better quality from a similar file size.

Maybe to clarify it further you need to understand that the reason the Nokia's are able to handle H.264 is not just down to the processor speed but also the graphics processor that in the case of the Nokia's is the PowerVR MBX.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-29 14:13 ]

Posted by WhyBe
@Dogmann
I understand you clearly. 3gp is a part of the mpeg4 standard. The video encoding used in 3gp can be h.263 or h.264 or mpg4-part 2. WIKI Ref

I never said which has superior video between X1 or e90. I was just pointing out the fact that just because e90 sports h.264 @ 30 fps does not automatically make it superior to X1 mp4 @ 30 fps. You have to factor in bitrate capabilities of the X1 and e90 for those respective formats. Then visually compare the resultant video.

I know h.264 is the new "superior" format, but that assumes you have the sufficient CPU power to fully implement it and the bitrates used are sufficient to maintain original video quality.

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-29 14:36 ]

Posted by mib1800
@WhyBe

If I am not wrong, H.263 is at least twice less efficient than H.264. Logic tells us that X1 would not implement a high bitrate H.263 as file size will be too huge. Typical video rec quality of N95/e90 H264 video bitrate can go as high as 5000kbps which results in about 20Mb per min of video. Achieving the same bitrate in H263 would result in an unacceptable large file size.

So going by what was implemented in K850 3gp which is about 100kbps, even if we assume that X1 can triple or quadruple this bitrate, the quality is still way below n-series. Typically those H263 video will look very blocky (i.e. unusable) if you view it on a large screen LCD/TV.

So in order to view X1 recorded video on a tv, you would have to use H264 @15fps to record which inadvertantly has jerky motion. H253 @30fps video is only good for viewing on the phone.



edited:

just saw the MDA Vario/HTC Raphael being announced. X1 prospect is looking much bleaker now since this Raphael has same or better spec than X1 (like 256MB ram, tv-out) and at about the same size and weight

[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-05-29 15:25 ]

[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-05-29 15:26 ]

Posted by aksd
Looking at the Raphael/Diamon processor though its the MSM7201A, which is the US version that does'nt support H.264 and is simlar to the current TyTn II in video playback, I hope this is not the case, if it is then if I do buy a phone in the coming months it will be the X1 or the newly previed supposed Dream which has a built in compass and a capactive screen running android.


Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-29 16:01:55, mib1800 wrote:
@WhyBe

If I am not wrong, H.263 is at least twice less efficient than H.264. Logic tells us that X1 would not implement a high bitrate H.263 as file size will be too huge. Typical video rec quality of N95/e90 H264 video bitrate can go as high as 5000kbps which results in about 20Mb per min of video. Achieving the same bitrate in H263 would result in an unacceptable large file size.

Well, I'll be interested in seeing how all of this looks on the devices. If the e90 has the CPU power to implement h.264 @ vga @ 30 fps and at a respectable bitrate, then that's one powerful beast.

@All
How many smartphones do you guys go through in a year?

Posted by aksd
@WhyBe

Firstly, the CPU power does'nt effect your Video recording as much as the 3D accelerator does, the PowerVR accelerator on the OMAP 2420 processors used by Nokia are market leading and i used on the iPhone as well, from the documentation the MSM7200 was supposed to be better than that thoug, but till date a superior implementation of hardware acceleration to that of Nokias in multimedia is yet to be seen. I'm not an expert on video codecs I dont even watch video on my device but when I pay money for a device as high end as the X1 I expect the best, I'm sure you agree with this, but it looks like it'll still lag behind the then 2yr old N95 .

This year has been quite a few actually:
lets see 2 Nokia S60 3rd Edition
2 Linux Based Handsets on EZX
1 UIQ
1 WM(I'm quite happy with this, 7 months and counting )

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-29 17:47:46, aksd wrote:
@WhyBe
This year has been quite a few actually:
lets see 2 Nokia S60 3rd Edition
2 Linux Based Handsets on EZX
1 UIQ
1 WM(I'm quite happy with this, 7 months and counting )


I sort of figured an addiction problem

Posted by Dogmann
@Whybe

As i explained no one really uses 30fps as that is just not necessary as most films and TV shows are only encoded @23/24fps so increasing the frame rate gives no advantage other than increasing the likelihood of it being out of sync.

Well done you have just realised that the the E90 is one of the most powerful Symbian smart phones and as you put it one powerful beast.

As Symbian requires far less processing power then WM so the 330mhz OMAP 2420 is more than enough. Now add to that the PowerVR MBX graphics processor and yes it plays converted films and TV shows perfectly @ 800x352 in full screen on the E90 with no dropped frames stutter or out of sync audio. It also plays H.264 natively in Real Player no need to buy or use a 3rd party player either.

That is why i have stated it is better than what the X1 will be able to do and why the X1 doesn't eat every other device out there especially when it comes to Multimedia.

Well so far this year i have only had a N95 8Gb for the first two weeks as had that since November and then my E90 since 8th January. Plus i had an iPhone but put that back in the box after 3 days and sold it as just didn't enjoy using a touchscreen and found it annoying. In the previous 16 months i had a P910, M600, N70, N73, N93, TyTn, E61, N95, N95 8GB which is 9 but i have now slowed down my addiction to getting new devices. So although i may try either a BB Bold or Android device this year I'm not planning on getting rid of my E90. As i will use my upgrade for one of those and just sell it after a while.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-29 17:12 ]

Posted by mib1800

On 2008-05-29 17:24:12, WhyBe wrote:

Well, I'll be interested in seeing how all of this looks on the devices. If the e90 has the CPU power to implement h.264 @ vga @ 30 fps and at a respectable bitrate, then that's one powerful beast.

@All
How many smartphones do you guys go through in a year?


I have just checked videos taken with my N82 and N95. For typical video taken in daylight, the bitrate varies from 2300 to 3000 kbps. Low light video bitrate is higher. In comparison, 3gp video taken by the K850 has bitrate of about 100kbps.

X1 camera/multimedia/video rec is lagging behind not just the 2 year old N95 but also the 3 year old N93 . I also have a feeling that the music quality of X1 will also lag behind N95/N82. The only thing going for X1 is just the WVGA screen. Sorry to burst your X1 bubble.

Unlike dogmann or aksd, I am more "faithful" to my phones. For the past 2 years, I have bought 3 phones: the Atom, N95-1 and now the N82. My current main phone is the N82 and before that it was N95-1. The Atom is mainly a "explore & play" phone. Intending to buy the Diamond to replace the atom.



[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-05-29 17:25 ]

Posted by aksd

On 2008-05-29 17:52:59, WhyBe wrote:
I sort of figured an addiction problem


Not really , the two EZX phones I got on a fraction of the original price from Motorola. I wanted to know what Symbian phones were like so I got two of them, sold them in a months time as I was'nt happy with them, did'nt loose any money on them, you can do that if you have the right connections . The UIQ was baiscally for my grand dad, he loves UIQ , and I settled down with the TyTn II which is WM, and I think I'll use it for a while now, needs a housing change due to some R&D work gone wrong, otherwise in good condition . Still have both EZX phones as they're more for development purposes . Like Dogmann I'm still undecided on my next phone, maybe WM maybe Android, the newer gen phones just dont justify the expenditure.

@Marc

WM does'nt use more processing power , it might have more background processes running and the video recording is'nt really dependant on the processor if a GPU exists, its for the non GPU handsets that video quality is propotional to processor speed.

@mib

Dont make me laugh, music quality with the MSM processors blows away any Nokia except maybe the N91. The MSM processor has 2 DSPs which work well, this couple with software enhancemnt such as SRS, leaves the N95 and N82 in the dust. I've extensively tested the N95 8GB with the TyTn II and taken 2nd and 3rd opinons as well the TyTn II wins hands down. The speakers on the N95 are better though.


_________________


[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-29 17:26 ]

Posted by dr.W

On 2008-05-29 17:59:38, Dogmann wrote:
@Whybe

As i explained no one really uses 30fps as that is just not necessary as most films and TV shows are only encoded @23/24fps so increasing the frame rate gives no advantage other than increasing the likelihood of it being out of sync.

Well done you have just realised that the the E90 is one of the most powerful Symbian smart phones and as you put it one powerful beast.

As Symbian requires far less processing power then WM so the 330mhz OMAP 2420 is more than enough. Now add to that the PowerVR MBX graphics processor and yes it plays converted films and TV shows perfectly @ 800x352 in full screen on the E90 with no dropped frames stutter or out of sync audio. It also plays H.264 natively in Real Player no need to buy or use a 3rd party player either.

That is why i have stated it is better than what the X1 will be able to do and why the X1 doesn't eat every other device out there especially when it comes to Multimedia.

Well so far this year i have only had a N95 8Gb for the first two weeks as had that since November and then my E90 since 8th January. Plus i had an iPhone but put that back in the box after 3 days and sold it as just didn't enjoy using a touchscreen and found it annoying. In the previous 16 months i had a P910, M600, N70, N73, N93, TyTn, E61, N95, N95 8GB which is 9 but i have now slowed down my addiction to getting new devices. So although i may try either a BB Bold or Android device this year I'm not planning on getting rid of my E90. As i will use my upgrade for one of those and just sell it after a while.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-29 17:12 ]


Personally, I don't judge a phone based on its ability to playback or record video. I just don't have the time to watch movies, or make them, on my phone. If I'm not at work I'm with my family and using a dedicated camcorder to record things. Maybe you guys have more free time, or commute to work by train, if so, good for you!

I am going to make my decision on which phone I buy based on how well it runs productivity software (office suites), user interface, and speed/quality of internet experience.

I would get an E90 if it had US 3G, in fact it is probably the only non-touchscreen smartphone I would buy based on its superior navigation tools. As things stand the X1 may very well be my next phone if it is not delayed too long.

[ This Message was edited by: dr.W on 2008-05-29 21:57 ]

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-29 18:23:43, aksd wrote:
@Marc
...and the video recording is'nt really dependant on the processor if a GPU exists, its for the non GPU handsets that video quality is propotional to processor speed.


@aksd
Do GPU's execute video codecs too (video compression and decompression) or are these computations left to the CPU?...in the e90?...in the X1??

@Dogmann
I'd be interested in learning about the detailed X1i video specs for it's highest and lowest quality formats. For recording, I'd prefer 30fps at full VGA. I'm really doubting the e90's ability to do realtime VGA @ 30 fps @ full h.264 spec. I suspect, at that frame rate and resolution you are actually getting 3gp or some sort of compromise on full h.264.

Posted by Dogmann
@WhyBe

No it's not 3gp or a comprised H.264 what ever that may be and was the the amazing thing about the N93 when launched. As it was the first to be able to record 30fps VGA in H.264 it was also the first to offer a 3x Optical Zoom i know i had one when first released and that wasn't a small device either. But since then the OMAP2420 and PowerVR MBX have made there way into the N95, N95 8GB and E90 giving them all the amazing video recording and playback abilities. which is why such a big deal is made of it as not many other mobiles can do this.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-30 00:22 ]

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-30 01:21:44, Dogmann wrote:
@WhyBe
...As it was the first to be able to record 30fps VGA in H.264 it was also the first to...


@Dogmann
Can you point me to this spec?

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-30 10:02 ]

Posted by aksd
Video Compression and playback etc. is handled by the GPU on the E90 and on the X1 EMEA/WWE version, not sure about the US version though.

Posted by d-southwest
What up?

Has anyone seen on tha whitepaper that tha video camera doesnt have a digital zoom?

Peace

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-30 09:06:30, d-southwest wrote:
What up?

Has anyone seen on tha whitepaper that tha video camera doesnt have a digital zoom?

Peace


Digital zoom on VGA video?...

Posted by d-southwest

On 2008-05-30 11:02:08, WhyBe wrote:

On 2008-05-30 09:06:30, d-southwest wrote:
What up?

Has anyone seen on tha whitepaper that tha video camera doesnt have a digital zoom?

Peace


Digital zoom on VGA video?...



Yes do you know something about that?

Posted by WhyBe
@d-southwest:

With digital zoom, you're not really zooming in, you're just enlarging the recorded pixels. Digital zoom, I think, is more of a software feature. There's no corresponding hardware component that implements it. I could be wrong though.

True zooming is implemented through optical zoom.

For example:
2x optical zoom would yield a resolution of 640x480
2x digital zoom would yield a resolution of 320x240
4x optical zoom would yield a resolution of 640x480
4x digital zoom would yield a resolution of 160x120
8x optical zoom would yield a resolution of 640x480
8x digital zoom would yield a resolution of 80x60

...and so on.

(those resolutions may be different if digital zoom is calculated at the sensor)

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-30 10:29 ]

Posted by d-southwest

On 2008-05-30 11:17:57, WhyBe wrote:
@d-southwest:

With digital zoom, you're not really zooming in, you're just enlarging the recorded pixels. Digital zoom, I think, is more of a software feature. There's no corresponding hardware component that implements it. I could be wrong though.

True zooming is implemented through optical zoom.

For example:
2x optical zoom would yield a resolution of 640x480
2x digital zoom would yield a resolution of 320x240
4x optical zoom would yield a resolution of 640x480
4x digital zoom would yield a resolution of 160x120
8x optical zoom would yield a resolution of 640x480
8x digital zoom would yield a resolution of 80x60

...and so on.

(those resolutions may be different if digital zoom is calculated at the sensor)

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-30 10:29 ]


Thanks for ya help
But does that mean that it has a zoom for video capture?

(i dont know much of resolution )

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-30 12:27:01, d-southwest wrote:
...But does that mean that it has a zoom for video capture?


I don't know the specifics of the X1 capturing. It may be mentioned in many of the review videos on YouTube or review.

Posted by anonymuser
I wouldn't suppose it has an optical zoom, as few if any phones do. The point about digitial zoom (which is nothing but a very poor imitation of optical zoom) is that you could perform the exact same trick with MS Paint, and probably do a better job than the phone could anyway. It's absence on the X1 is a blessing if anything - it might stop a few good pictures getting ruined.

The whole video issue is an interesting one - if SE could place hand on heart and claim the X1 was best for multimedia, or at the very least best for multimedia on Windows Mobile, then they might have a real advantage over the Raphael etc. There's a real demand out there for at least one WM device that can really deliver perfect video etc (as evidenced by the whole HTC Drivers backlash). At the same time of course, there's a mass market who are quite happy to put up with just "ok" multimedia (myself included) who are more than happy with current WM hardware like the Tytn II etc, let alone the next generation.

Sadly for SE, I don't see that the X1 does have any great claims over the Raphael in this department - it's still in the "ok" camp. Which is fine by me, but at the same time, no good reason for me to buy it rather than the Raphael.

[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-05-30 11:53 ]

Posted by d-southwest
To WhyBe

Thanks again
And yes i will search it down

To Boinng

Thank you too

Peace

Posted by Dogmann
@WhyBe

I have sent you a Pm with info and a link as this really hasn't anything to do with the X1 at all.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-30 12:09 ]

Posted by Humble
This seems to be a quite interesting,
Do Nokia use the Omaps, I knew my artemis had a little omap in,
http://focus.ti.com/general/d[....]gationId=12796&contentId=36505
power house of a fone,I can see this in the horizon lol

Posted by aksd
I just found some interesting information.

The US version of the X1 as well as the Diamond and the Raphael, using MSM 7201A processor can record QVGA at 30fps(3GP, MP4) ONLY, although playback is supposed to be at VGA @ 30fps, using QTV, which as far as I know is a software based solution, this is not good at all, its pathetic actually.

The MSM7200A as far as specs go can record at VGA @ 30fps, BUT for some reason its not on Qualcomms site anymore, I wonder if the X1 still uses the MSM7200A then.

Posted by dr.W

On 2008-05-30 15:22:31, aksd wrote:
I just found some interesting information.

The US version of the X1 as well as the Diamond and the Raphael, using MSM 7201A processor can record QVGA at 30fps(3GP, MP4) ONLY, although playback is supposed to be at VGA @ 30fps, using QTV, which as far as I know is a software based solution, this is not good at all, its pathetic actually.

The MSM7200A as far as specs go can record at VGA @ 30fps, BUT for some reason its not on Qualcomms site anymore, I wonder if the X1 still uses the MSM7200A then.



Where did you find this information?

As far as specs go the MSM7200A can also support 8MP cameras, just because a chip can support a feature does not require manufacturers to include that feature. Seriously, why are you guys getting so worked about the video recording capabilities of a phone. Are you going to be shooting your next blockbuster on it?

I think expectations for phones are very much out of control right now. People want a desktop computer, HDTV, dSLR and professional camcorder all in a device no more than 12mm thick (or is that too big also). Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to buy a phone like that, and maybe in a few years I will, but I also happen to live in the real world where I know what is and, more importantly, is not important to have on a phone. Email, good/fast internet, smooth interface with easy to use calendar and information management software, good stability, and for when I'm not busy, possibly a decent music player.

[ This Message was edited by: dr.W on 2008-05-30 19:02 ]

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-30 20:01:26, dr.W wrote:

On 2008-05-30 15:22:31, aksd wrote:
I just found some interesting information.

The US version of the X1 as well as the Diamond and the Raphael, using MSM 7201A processor can record QVGA at 30fps(3GP, MP4) ONLY, although playback is supposed to be at VGA @ 30fps, using QTV, which as far as I know is a software based solution, this is not good at all, its pathetic actually.

The MSM7200A as far as specs go can record at VGA @ 30fps, BUT for some reason its not on Qualcomms site anymore, I wonder if the X1 still uses the MSM7200A then.



Where did you find this information?

As far as specs go the MSM7200A can also support 8MP cameras, just because a chip can support a feature does not require manufacturers to include that feature. Seriously, why are you guys getting so worked about the video recording capabilities of a phone. Are you going to be shooting your next blockbuster on it?

I think expectations for phones are very much out of control right now. People want a desktop computer, HDTV, dSLR and professional camcorder all in a device no more than 12mm thick (or is that too big also). Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to buy a phone like that, and maybe in a few years I will, but I also happen to live in the real world where I know what is and, more importantly, is not important to have on a phone. Email, good/fast internet, smooth interface with easy to use calendar and information management software, good stability, and for when I'm not busy, possibly a decent music player.

@dr. W
100% agreed

@aksd: Those X1a specs you just mentioned are already listed in the whitepaper. The X1i, which is also listed, doesn't have those restrictions.

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-30 22:33 ]


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