Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 discussion

Posted by Residentevil
Any idea when we will actually be able to buy this phone? Or will it take as long as the P990 between anouncement and release?

Posted by aksd
I've heard from other websites that the release has been pushed back to November. When I asked a few friends working for SE service and marketing, it seems that they're not too sure, usually 2-3 months before a product launch there are training sessions etc., nothing of that sort has started for the X1 yet. So its anybodys bet, Sept-Dec anytime lol. But if they release it too late, a few other manufacturers are planning to have WM7 phones out late this year or early next year, WM7 is an "Actual" finger friendly OS and not a "wannabe" half developed stuff like Touch Flo or SE's panels. We should just wait and watch. If the X1 had an accelerometer I'd assume that it would be all set for a WM7 upgrade, still..........its too early to actually predict anything, wait and watch is all we can do.

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-26 19:53:18, aksd wrote:
@WhyBe
The delay however does not include them "waiting" for X1 apps, if you believe this you will be sorely disappointed. I have from a reliable source that the delay is because they're taking time iover software optimization and localization. If they were "waiting" for devs to write apps, dont you think theyd need to havea frame work for developers to work on, or do the devs just know how the "modified" OS as you think it is works?

Well,

said so within the first minute of their annoucement video.

Don't these applicants get the framework?

Assuming WM and drivers are finalized, what's left but to develop apps? I don't believe

would hire programmers so deficient in skills that they are taking all of this time to provide us with the same thing every other WM manufacturer has already given us. That's just not believable.

Posted by clauf
HAHA askd: I'm one of those who are buying the X1 just using the simple features: media, camera, and good organizing. Honestly I should consider G series phones but nah... X1 looks better.

I don't mind them pushing back the date [actually I do mind since it will be cheaper for me when I get it in christmas], but as long as it's stable, I'll be a happy man.

It would be nice if they could throw in a Sony Ericsson themed Opera Browser. =D

I just noticed something: if you view all the official pics at Xperia's website, none of them had the "windows logo" on the panel key [which is now the "X Panel"] I guess it was intended to be changed.
[ This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-05-27 01:46 ]

[ This Message was edited by: clauf on 2008-05-27 02:12 ]

Posted by aksd
Are you blind? I said they'll have basic apps, but SMSing and email etc will be default WM so will all the settings etc., I ask again, have you ever used a WM phone in your life? I've spoken to people who have used the X1 and they have affirmed what I have been saying all along. The panels is a launcher, there are a few finger friendly apps, just like on the current gen HTC although there are a few more finger firendly apps than on the current gen HTC and the media player is supposed to be nice.

There is NO change to the WM UI, there is NO modified SDK for developers to use, the start menu still looks the same.

Ifyou read the link you posted, like I mentioned several times earlier the apps they want are WVGA, nothig to do with any framework as that framework does'nt exist. Do you know that to write an entire SDK with a framework takes close to 2-3 years for completion? And dont you think its stupid to waste resources on a framework when this is the last few months of Win CE 5.0? Do you actually think that SE want to release a phone with a modified OS so that it'll reduce the apps available and devs working for the X1? The screen is issue enough, doing what you think they're going to do is commercial suicide, anyway its not going to happen so......big deal

. BTW where exactly is this "framework" for me to download and write programs for the X1? can I have a link please?

@clauf

Each to his own

, but what I meant was the X1's target audience is not the basic user

.

The X can be remapped to the start menu if required, SE are trying to make the X1 user friendly, but its a difficult task. If they're releasing it in Nov/Dec they might as well plonk WM7 onto it and save themselves a lot of trouble

[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-27 02:54 ]

Posted by clauf

On 2008-05-27 03:42:29, aksd wrote:

@clauf

Each to his own

, but what I meant was the X1's target audience is not the basic user

[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-27 02:54 ]

hmmm... maybe with X2, they'll do what they did to X1 - announce it Q4 and not allow anyone to touch it, only showing the new X interface. Turns out they will be hiding WM7 underneath.

*Continues Dreaming*

I do hope microsoft releases Windows 7 Mobile next year: microsoft is prone to delaying operating systems.

Posted by razec
could it be that one of the two models shown on JavaOne congress video the X2?

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-27 03:42:29, aksd wrote:
...There is NO change to the WM UI, there is NO modified SDK for developers to use, the start menu still looks the same.

Ifyou read the link you posted, like I mentioned several times earlier the apps they want are WVGA, nothig to do with any framework as that framework does'nt exist. Do you know that to write an entire SDK with a framework takes close to 2-3 years for completion? And dont you think its stupid to waste resources on a framework when this is the last few months of Win CE 5.0? Do you actually think that SE want to release a phone with a modified OS so that it'll reduce the apps available and devs working for the X1? The screen is issue enough, doing what you think they're going to do is commercial suicide, anyway its not going to happen so......big deal

. BTW where exactly is this "framework" for me to download and write programs for the X1? can I have a link please?

@aksd:
I don't remember anyone purporting that

is altering Windows/framework in any sort of way. All I ever stated was that

and developers are designing custom apps for the X1. Since many apps won't be "right" for the hires screen, it only makes sense for third parties to have some "Xperia"-type products ready to purchase at launch. And it only makes sense that all of the built in X1 apps are "Xperia"-type apps. All of this can be done on top of WM in the same manner that TouchFlo is. There doesn't have to be any reworking of the OS. All that is needed is time to get this software "right".

This gives us a good starting point at launch instead of trying to make standard WM apps work with the hires screen. Since

is marketing this thing as a premium product delivering a premium experience, one should expect the software to match the quality of the hardware. I'm willing to allow the extra time for

to accomplish this.

Posted by Residentevil

On 2008-05-26 20:47:13, WhyBe wrote:

Well,

said so within the first minute of their annoucement video.

Don't these applicants get the framework?

Assuming WM and drivers are finalized, what's left but to develop apps? I don't believe

would hire programmers so deficient in skills that they are taking all of this time to provide us with the same thing every other WM manufacturer has already given us. That's just not believable.

Let's hope the same programmer who worked on the P990 do NOT work on the X1.

Posted by Keiki
They probably had been kicked out by mr. Komiyama

Posted by WhyBe
FYI - Here's a Komiyama interview about

Posted by mib1800

On 2008-05-27 05:18:14, WhyBe wrote:

. BTW where exactly is this "framework" for me to download and write programs for the X1? can I have a link please?

@aksd:
I don't remember anyone purporting that

is altering Windows/framework in any sort of way. All I ever stated was that

is marketing this thing as a premium product delivering a premium experience, one should expect the software to match the quality of the hardware. I'm willing to allow the extra time for

to accomplish this.

The irony is that this was the same reason SE gave for the delay in the release of P990 - i.e. to give developers more time to come out with software for P990. I think looking back later, we can all have a good laugh at your statement if history repeats itself.

Posted by WhyBe
p990???

Get over it.....

There have been plenty of

phones since then. I think every manufacture has dropped the ball at least once.

Posted by mib1800

On 2008-05-27 07:52:54, WhyBe wrote:
p990???

Get over it.....

There have been plenty of

phones since then. I think every manufacture has dropped the ball at least once.

The parallel is just too hard to resist. It was said by the SE-friendly eldar of m-r that SE is having software problems (most probably panels related) and delayed to earliest release of nov 08. So SE is not working on "additional" apps to enhanced the X1 but they are just struggling to get the basic done. So you should get over of being so overly unrealistic.

Posted by WhyBe

mib1800 wrote:
...I think looking back later, we can all have a good laugh at your statement if history repeats itself.

...and when it doesn't, you will acknowledge yourself as being a hater, right?

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-27 09:51:48, mib1800 wrote:
The parallel is just too hard to resist. It was said by the SE-friendly eldar of m-r that SE is having software problems (most probably panels related) and delayed to earliest release of nov 08. So SE is not working on "additional" apps to enhanced the X1 but they are just struggling to get the basic done. So you should get over of being so overly unrealistic.

You speak as if

is one guy huddled over an X1 trying to get it to work before the release

is a corporation that has the means of hiring whatever coding talent is needed for their products. Their gaffe with the p990 could have been due to accountants or management poor cost-cutting decisions--such as, reducing the needed resources for the p990 developers to properly finish the project. That's usually what ruins products in other markets.

If this "panel-problem" did exist, maybe the increase to 256MB of memory solved it???

Posted by mib1800

On 2008-05-27 10:02:37, WhyBe wrote:

You speak as if

is one guy huddled over an X1 trying to get it to work before the release

Lately SE seems to be more interested in making profits than investing. Look at the many rehashed phones that are coming out. I am not optimistic at all. Look at all the "carry-over" bugs of UIQ3 after 2-3 years and the never-get-fixed-bugs of K850 and you have some ideas the disarray inside SE software team.

You may view this as being harsh on SE but the reality is just that. SE is not getting thing up and moving let alone having a handle on things. To say otherwise is not speaking the reality but just telling some fanboy's wishes.

If this "panel-problem" did exist, maybe the increase to 256MB of memory solved it???

We know the increase in RAM is not a good fix like optimising the code for the panel (which should reduce RAM requirement and not increase it). SE throws in more RAM so as to make a bloated panel software able to run. This will very likely results in a laggy operations.

Posted by Dogmann
@WhyBe

The fact that you point us to an interview with Mr K where he failed to even answer all the questions put to him and it took so long to even get those BS answers.

Along with the fact that you seem to be of the opinion that everything SE say is of course both 100% true and accurate suggests to me a level of naivety rarely seen on any forum.

I have to ask have you ever used a smart phone?
Have you ever used a WM device?
Have you ever used a UIQ device?

Because quite frankly your belief in all your told by SE PR is quite unbelievable and the lack of understanding you appear to have also defies belief.

As shown by your

" SE is a corporation that has the means of hiring whatever coding talent is needed for their products. Their gaffe with the p990 could have been due to accountants or management poor cost-cutting decisions--such as, reducing the needed resources for the p990 developers to properly finish the project. That's usually what ruins products in other markets."

As obviously you have managed to miss the fact that the didn't fix it they stopped support and that the P1 and W960 still launched with known bugs from the earlier devices still not fixed. Not forgetting the K850 that still even know 6 months plus after launch many are still waiting for a yet another new firmware to fix it.
Theory and logic is one thing as yes SE should be able to do all those things that you say but the reality is very different isn't it?

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-27 10:42 ]

Posted by hahaha112
Why dosent they put an accelerometer in it

Posted by Keiki
Actually, i didnt give a damn if their front panel is good or not. If i found the front panel is sucks or slow, i just deactivating them, no big deal! It just home screen anyway.

The apps in X1 that i delight to see is XMB style media player and Track ID (it very useful for me for ID-ing Japaneese & Korean Music)

Posted by aksd
@WhyBe

1. You mentioned that SE are waiting for devs to devlop applications for the X1 using the nice X1 UI which in our own words is iPhone like. I am a dev and I want to develop apps for the X1 using their nice UI so please direct me to some sort of guide or framework I can use to develop such apps

.

2. The apps SE are writting are basic multimedia, a bit of eyecandy today screen, some sort of RSS feed thing. The core components of WM remain the same, from your browser to your messaging and emails, to your settings, I have this confirmed from a marketing friend at SE and he confirmed that, wheather you like it or not.

3. The time is required for Optimization, methinks SE are going all out with the panels and misjudged the RAM required(maybe they forgot WVGA needs more RAM than QVGA, lol), not to rewrite basic apps.

@mib

This is not UIQ, not is the basic hardware by SE, and definately I prefer the X1 to Nokias flagship at that moment, the N96 which uses an ARM 9 processor, and is just another product to milk nokia fanboys, I'd go for the X1 anyday, even if the panels is bloated, I can disable it and I'll have a full 256MB of RAM to play with wheeeeeeeeeee!

. IMO the X1 is a hell of a decision by SE and their Xperia line might bring them back from the dead and prevent another Moto situation.

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-27 11:41:48, Dogmann wrote:
The fact that you point us to an interview with Mr K where he failed to even answer all the questions put to him and it took so long to even get those BS answers.

That was just FYI and unrelated to our X1 discussion. Yes, he did give typical CEO answers.

Along with the fact that you seem to be of the opinion that everything SE say is of course both 100% true and accurate suggests to me a level of naivety rarely seen on any forum.

No I don't believe in all things SE, but their info that I've linked to makes a heck of a lot more sense than the rumours and theories purported by the hate squad in this thread.

I have to ask have you ever used a smart phone?
Have you ever used a WM device?
Have you ever used a UIQ device?

Because quite frankly your belief in all your told by SE PR is quite unbelievable and the lack of understanding you appear to have also defies belief.

Yes I have and use a p910-my only

. Kyocera and Moto's before that. And one hp Pocket PC when they first hit the market.
Yes, I've used a WM phone (my buddy owns one) and I think it sucked from a practicality perspective. I have another friend who works for at&t and he always carries three or four phones with him at all times (he's always being a salesman). I didn't care for any of the WM phones or Blackberries. The iPhone I had to admit was very well put together.

Marc:

WhyBe:
" SE is a corporation that has the means of hiring whatever coding talent is needed for their products. Their gaffe with the p990 could have been due to accountants or management poor cost-cutting decisions--such as, reducing the needed resources for the p990 developers to properly finish the project. That's usually what ruins products in other markets."

As obviously you have managed to miss the fact that the didn't fix it they stopped support and that the P1 and W960 still launched with known bugs from the earlier devices still not fixed. Not forgetting the K850 that still even know 6 months plus after launch many are still waiting for a yet another new firmware to fix it.
Theory and logic is one thing as yes SE should be able to do all those things that you say but the reality is very different isn't it?

Marc

Perhaps

...we'll see...

aksd wrote:
1. You mentioned that SE are waiting for devs to devlop applications for the X1 using the nice X1 UI which in our own words is iPhone like. I am a dev and I want to develop apps for the X1 using their nice UI so please direct me to some sort of guide or framework I can use to develop such apps .

I don't know. But if you contact them through Handango InHand, I'm sure they'll have the info you are seeking

@To the club:
You guys are wearing me out. If the X1 turns out to be as good as I believe it will (that is, better than you guys say it will be), I think you guys should give me a prize or something.

Posted by aksd
@WhyBe

I'm assuming I'm part of this "hate" squad, everything I've said is backed mostly by proof and insider developer knowledge, I love the rumours you spread about not "being able to see the WM UI" on the X1 which is blatant nonsense, SE marketing people after trying their hardset not to get into the WM UI, could'nt, otherwise they would'nt be able to SMS nor change their settings nor use WM's fantastic today plugin support.

And I dont think Dogmann is anti X1, nor am I(I'm actually pro X1, I've recomendded it to a ton of my friends), its just that I like debating when certain un-truths are posted on forums.

Handango said WVGA apps(they did not mention any framework), YOU said apps based on a new touch based Xperia interface, you also mentioned that the delay is because of time for developers to develop apps with an "Xperia" feel which you have led the forum to believe, so I dont think its too much to ask for you to back up your statement and lead me to a link that allows a developer(myself) to develop apps with the "Xperia" feel.

The X1 is going to be a good handset, although not great imo, as a month or two after purchase you're going to see WM7 phones out. Also the Xperia will be a great WM 6.1 phone, one of the best at the time of its release without a doubt but it is not going to have break through software nor is it an iPhone replacement.

[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-27 14:19 ]

Posted by Humble
Could anyone answer of these questions? thnks
1: Has the X1 really been delayed until November/December time
please tell me it isnt so?
2. Would it be A positive thing for S.E to upgrade the hardware capabilty of this handset to make it WM7 Compliant, (motion sensor etc.
3. The limitation of 16bit color depth of WM5/6 O.S. Does WM7 support 24bit color?
4. Is it cost effective to change the screen for Question 3
5. 311 PPI resolution, I thought the human eye can only resolve 290ish at 18" why so high of a resolution?
6.X1,Raphael, Snapdragon,APX2500,Google Phone, Iphone2, all i need is a beast of a phone Not bothered what manufacture or operating system (I just learn to use it to its best capabilty or mine) I am impartial, if something else comes out which stands out above all competitors then I get that,
which one of the above do you think will stand out, the xperia seems to be the one at the monent but if these monster phones are cominb out just after the delayed release of the X1, then I will be slightly dissapointed if the X1 is not ready, for the holy grail (WM7)

[ This Message was edited by: Humble on 2008-05-27 15:38 ]

Posted by imranbashir

On 2008-05-27 15:01:52, WhyBe wrote:
@To the club:
You guys are wearing me out. If the X1 turns out to be as good as I believe it will (that is, better than you guys say it will be), I think you guys should give me a prize or something.

LOL, I gotta admire your dedication, to the X1. Such drive and passion is rarely seen. I want a pair of your rose coloured glasses

PS: I don�t think anyone on this forum is a SE hater or a X1 hater who wouldn�t want a great product like this to come to light. Most of us are veterans and have the battle scars to prove it as such we don�t share your �unique� optimistic outlook.

[ This Message was edited by: imranbashir on 2008-05-27 15:48 ]

Posted by aksd
1. There has been no confirmation from SE, like I mentioned if it were to release in the next 3 months the service center, marketing people etc.. would have had training sessions for the handset which still has'nt begun, therfore my personal opinion is it should release anytime between Oct-Dec

.

2. Of course, one of the selling points of WM is the ability to upgrade platfrom when a new one is out. If you notice the Diamond seems future proof with an accelerometer etc. SE should push to make it future proof especially when its competition is future proof in the form of the Diamond/Raphael/HTC products, although its not really competition as HTC earns for every X1 sold

.

3. Here is ahy only 16bpp is supported for WM devices, and it should be similar for WM7 if I am not mistaken, link : http://blogs.msdn.com/windows[....]archive/2005/09/07/462187.aspx

4. Usually the screens wrt hardware are capable of displaying 18bpp, although the software renders in 16bpp only.

5. No idea

6. I suggest you wait it out a bit, where OS power is concerned I think Android is the way to go, very efficent use of hardware, with Quake working at 30fps on an underclocked MSM7200 processor, and the OS supports OpenGL. APX2500 based phones will be awesome but sdaly the first ones based on the APX2500 processor should be out Q3 2009, so that can be your next phone

. Lets see what WM7 has to offer as well, its too early to judge whats going to happen. But by December I know 1 thing for sure, the X1 sure wont be the "monster" it is today

Posted by Humble
Thanks aksd for your valuable insight,
Dilemma dilemma, Thanks for explaining about the screen resolution, Is there going to be another version of the apx2500?
I love the 500mW 700mW TDP of the SnapDragon Processor thats is Ground Breaking, thats means it be using a smaller battery (lol) power to weight ratio, can you image your fone with a HDMI port, apparantely qualcomm are saying that they will have full encode and decode 1080p in theses devices,

Posted by imranbashir
http://www.engadget.com/2008/[....]equpped-willcom-03-smartphone/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vwrpk_FQiQ&feature=related

This post is for WhyBe who kept on saying why hasn�t anyone released anything similar or better than the Xperia X1. Well, this is out in July. And I know the chipset isn�t Qualcomm, but then again it has a built in TV tuner and is out next month!

[ This Message was edited by: imranbashir on 2008-05-27 16:54 ]

Posted by aksd
We are going OT now aren't we

Anyway Qualcomms solutions need to be implemented wholly first dont they

(look at the TyTn II fiasco).

I expected Snapdragon out this year, thats what HTC said last year, and the Nvidia processor as well gets my pulse racing

BTW ANy link to the 1080p info? I thought it was 720p? I must have been mistaken though.

@imran

Using the PXA270 processor though

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-27 16:36 ]

Posted by mib1800
@aksd

I'd go for the X1 anyday, even if the panels is bloated, I can disable it and I'll have a full 256MB of RAM to play with wheeeeeeeeeee!

Then you lose the touch UI and back to stylus. duh. Come to think of it SE can release the X1 now without the panel software. (...and instead of spending bucketload of money to ready the panel software, maybe SE can spend some lose change to secretly fund WM crackers to ready a cooked ROM with TouchFlo 3D that is compatible with X1).

Posted by aksd
@mib

You know that in WM provided software is'nt the end all, we dont have as many restrictions like you Symbian people

. If its there, awesome, if its not big deal

. ANd Even SE's attempt at finger friendly launcher is pointless since the basic apps still need you to either pull out the stylus or struggle a little with your finger. The hardware is what counts, bottom line and its got 256MB RAM "wheeeeeeeeeeee" all over again

.

Funding is not required lol, TouchFlo has already been extracted even before the Diamond is out.

Posted by Humble
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2RbU13tUDk
link to 1080p encode decode

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-27 17:31:25, imranbashir wrote:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/[....]equpped-willcom-03-smartphone/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vwrpk_FQiQ&feature=related

--image--

This post is for WhyBe who kept on saying why hasn�t anyone released anything similar or better than the Xperia X1. Well, this is out in July. And I know the chipset isn�t Qualcomm, but then again it has a built in TV tuner and is out next month!

I didn't know they were using DOS smartphones in Japan

I'd hate to have to climb steps with that brick in my pocket...

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-27 19:33 ]

Posted by imranbashir
But you can get it in pink, thats gotta suit you...

Posted by hahaha112
Then why dosent they put an accelerometer in it and make it future proff like the Diamond.

[ This Message was edited by: hahaha112 on 2008-05-27 21:59 ]

Posted by imranbashir
On a more serious note though, I think it runs WM6 the front facia changes similar to the Samsung Soul, so you can have a keypad up front too so you don�t need to slide out the keyboard for one hand operation.

Size wise I think it�s very close to the Xperia X1, a little taller and slightly thicker, but still less so than the TyTn II. Anyway enough said about the phone, just a bit of fun on this miserable day...

And no I�m not buying one!

Posted by changtak
testing..

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-27 15:13:08, aksd wrote:
@WhyBe
...And I dont think Dogmann is anti X1, nor am I(I'm actually pro X1, I've recomendded it to a ton of my friends), its just that I like debating when certain un-truths are posted on forums.

You a hater, aksd, no, but Dogmann and mib1800? I'm not so sure

@Dogmann & mib1800, where do you stand?

Handango said WVGA apps(they did not mention any framework), YOU said apps based on a new touch based Xperia interface, you also mentioned that the delay is because of time for developers to develop apps with an "Xperia" feel which you have led the forum to believe, so I dont think its too much to ask for you to back up your statement and lead me to a link that allows a developer(myself) to develop apps with the "Xperia" feel.

You are taking my words literally as a programmer instead of looking at the bigger picture. My statements had nothing to do with coding the UI. I simply meant designing applications that are well thought out and match the premium flavor that Xperia is supposed to have. This was a logical conclusion drawn from the links I provided when I made the statements.

The X1 is going to be a good handset, although not great imo, as a month or two after purchase you're going to see WM7 phones out. Also the Xperia will be a great WM 6.1 phone, one of the best at the time of its release without a doubt but it is not going to have break through software nor is it an iPhone replacement.

What do you guys consider to be a great handset? I mean, how do you slam the X1 (which is clearly the best, as of now) yet have no other standard to hold Xperia up to except some imaginary prototypes or something maybe coming out next year? At first, the Diamond and Raphael were the big hope. The specs were released then the comparisons to X1 have seemed to slow down dramatically. Then imranbashir shows us this 10 kilo aircraft launcher running DOS

. I'm just wondering, what standard should someone hold the X1 to?

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-28 04:53 ]

Posted by mib1800

On 2008-05-27 17:55:24, aksd wrote:
@mib

You know that in WM provided software is'nt the end all, we dont have as many restrictions like you Symbian people

. If its there, awesome, if its not big deal

Agree with you here. There are so many shells for WM that it really doesnt matter if SE comes out with a crap panel UI. You can just replace it Hardware wise, some area is still not up to standard.

e.g camera + video recording still cannot match N95/82, no accelerometer and in-built GPS capability is still very sketchy and finally no TV-out.

Funding is not required lol, TouchFlo has already been extracted even before the Diamond is out.

But not for non-standard WVGA screen of X1.

So for me, I dont see the attraction of X1 hardware over Diamond. I think the Diamond screen resolution is much better than X1 as you can be sure that you have no problem running 3rd party apps. For X1, you can't be sure you can get a working shell (if you are looking at replacing the panel software). At least for Diamond, you are assured to have some sort of Touch UI which look sleek and working.

I am looking to buy the Diamond to replace my Atom. X1 seems so bulky compared to Diamond.

@WhyBe

Where do I stand? I am looking to buy the HTC Diamond so I am not anti-WM. But I just see no attraction with the X1 (esp compared to Diamond):-

- Diamond is much lighter and smaller size
- No one is really sure how X1 panel suppose to work or what kind of capability it has. TouchFLO 3D is known and it looks very sleek
- X1 has non-standard WVGA resolution so there are a lot of question marks whether existing 3rd party apps (incl. freeware) will work properly.
- Going by SE tradition, X1 price will be sky-high
- Diamond is available about now but X1 release at best is Nov this year.

Hardware-wise, there is nothing to shout about with X1. N95-8G/N82 has much better camera and video recording than X1 plus other stuff like accelerometer and tv-out. Hardware wise X1 is nothing special next to a Diamond or N-series. So I cannot understand why you are so euphoric over the X1.

[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-05-28 06:13 ]

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-28 07:11:19, mib1800 wrote:
...So I cannot understand why you are so euphoric over the X1.

Well, you're in this thread on a regular basis mib1800. Certainly you too have an undeniable attraction to X1?

Posted by Indiandawg
Am too fried over Sony Ericsson now there is no value for time.. they just come out with the product anytime they want. No doubt there are good with software and hardware but you see Samsumg.. the reason why they are so successfull today is because they came out with all types of cell phones from mid range to luxirous range to PDA in a very short span of time.

When you have 10 other cell phones like x1 it makes no sense to wait for x1 just for few add on features. I've never used any other brand besides sony ericsson but right now am so fried over Sony Ericsson because they make me wait like a dog. p990i then P1i and now X1 ...

Do something about it SE u might just lose customers now..!!!

Posted by clauf

On 2008-05-28 07:11:19, mib1800 wrote:
Agree with you here. There are so many shells for WM that it really doesnt matter if SE comes out with a crap panel UI. You can just replace it Hardware wise, some area is still not up to standard.

e.g camera + video recording still cannot match N95/82, no accelerometer and in-built GPS capability is still very sketchy and finally no TV-out.

Funding is not required lol, TouchFlo has already been extracted even before the Diamond is out.

But not for non-standard WVGA screen of X1.

I don't know if we can simply assume X1 has worst camera than N95, at least not at the momemnt. There are no proper reviews of the phone other than by that BengalBoy [and that isn't a proper review anyway]. BTW, the unit by BengalBoy was an older unit. And you can't simply compare prototype phone to a developed phone with many new firmwares. Megapixel count isn't everything...

The comparision of the Diamond to X1 is more suitable as they are both Windows devices.

1) Diamond is a smaller size but then again u loose the keyboard.
2) TouchFlo 3D in Diamond is amazing I agree, but it's safe to say that you can use TouchFlo 3D in any Windows Mobile 6.1 device [well you must have the proper specs such as ram, in which the X1 has]. Like you said earlier, there are MANY different customizations in Windows Mobile, and actually, Mobile-Review did an article about this. I'm just going to slap on the TouchFlo 3D or other apps to replace the default homescreen if Sony Ericsson doesn't do that already. To me, the panel interface is a fancy "programs list" that has limitations to nine programs.
3) On the flip side, you get amazing screen with WVGA resoolution.
4) Sky High? I'm not too sure. Price could be comparable to N-series, as Xperia is flagship to Sony Ericsson right?
5) Can't comment on that one. Yes I agree.

But I got a new one for you now.
*X1 is Quaband/Diamond is Triband. As well, the X1 features 3G America and Europe*

Posted by aksd
WhyBe,

What makes a great handset, well in the Xperia league, a handset that pushes the limits where technology is concerned in all areas from predecessor models, while providing the user with a stable experience. This is what the N95 did

, not that I'm a fan of the N95. The Xperia is not revolutionary but evolutionary, its an evolution of the HTC TyTn II or the Tilt as you refer to it in the US. The only thing worth upgrading for is the RAM imo, the screen is nice as well, but all the other features are mediocre in the least, very last year. I expected devices running latest generation processors such as Humble posted, the Snapdragon etc. this year, maybe my expectations were too high. Lets wait and see, the year end is still 7 months away

. Also the X1 is'nt as significant an improvement over the TyTn II platform as most people would have liked, to justify an upgrade of say 900 USD after paying 900 USD for the TyTn II a year or less ago.

If you meant developers have to develop finger friendly apps, there are already tonnes of them available. So thats not an issue at all.

[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-28 12:07 ]

Posted by Cyber.bee
In a german preview of the Diamond its stated that on full power gsm signal the battery lasts only 2,5 hours. That is absolutely inacceptable! Of what use is a phone whose battery is that weak? With this weak battery the Diamonds kicks itself out of the market!
I believe X1 will do this job way better...

Besides that, even with TouchFlo 3D you end up on the basic WM UI as soon as you open any business app. So what�s the matter about this UI question? It will be fine with me to be able to use the D-Pad Mouse for scrolling through websites or docs, for every other task I got used to the stylus or managed it with my finger. That IPhone UI is for kids in my eyes... eye candy nothing more!

Posted by Dogmann
Hi WhyBe

Well seeing as you asked i will answer i don't hate the X1 far from it especially as it will be the most powerful smart phone from SE. I just wished they made an UIQ equivalent as that would be more interesting for me.

But unlike some i don't think it is a Multimedia power house the fact it uses the inferior 3gp and has a lower quality support for H.264 proves that IMO.

I am also unlike some am concerned at just what impact the panels will have on both battery life and speed of the OS. Which is again why i keep on saying we need to wait and see how it performs once delivered rather then just believing it will be brilliant.

The other point is we know only to well SE place a premium price on their products at least on launch so need to see what else is available when it is launched and what price they are in comparison. As despite what many think the world isn't full of SE fans and price on a premium product is a factor for many making this type of purchase.

But as i keep on saying until it is actually available to buy and real users start reporting on it's performance it's best to reserve judgement until then.

Now the final question would i buy one? i seriously doubt it as i am just no longer a big touch screen fan and that doesn't mean anyone else shouldn't or can't be it is just I'm not.

Also my current device has a better larger screen, a much better browser than PIE, and better Multimedia support as well, and i also prefer my larger QWERTY to the X1's. So for me there really isn't anything it offers that would justify me selling my current device and spending loads more money on it.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-28 14:21 ]

Posted by ScoreP
I always have an SE smart phone starting from p800 (including with all the problems of p990 etc.). I really like xperia x1 but it is going to be released in Nov and it looks like may be SE becoming too late to release xperia x1 as spec wise HTC/T-mobile vario IV is almost simillar and quite tempting except screen, video recording, batery life etc. check this out:
http://www.slashphone.com/t-m[....]pact-iv-and-mda-vario-iv-28550

But I am still going to wait for SE to release xperia x1 as soney is style.

Posted by drgopoos
I dont know how many here have used tytn II.

Its the best phone i have used. ( mind u i have tired and tested virtually all the symbian - Nokia and SE handsets)
I have installed so many applications and it has never hung on me for the last few months. The PC sync too is 100 % ( I hate SE for screwing my outlook)
Tytn did froze at times but tytn II seems so near perfect ( except video driver- i never play videos)

Talking of xperia, i fear there are some issues. SE has just increased the RAM to 256MB. Something to think abt. I will wait for the intial reviews before i put my step in.

Meanwhile , HTC will be releasing some new phone in the next 6 months and should beat SE. ( remember its more than an year since tytn II has been released.)

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-28 16:39:58, ScoreP wrote:
I always have an SE smart phone starting from p800 (including with all the problems of p990 etc.). I really like xperia x1 but it is going to be released in Nov and it looks like may be SE becoming too late to release xperia x1 as spec wise HTC/T-mobile vario IV is almost simillar and quite tempting except screen, video recording, batery life etc. check this out:
http://www.slashphone.com/t-m[....]pact-iv-and-mda-vario-iv-28550

But I am still going to wait for SE to release xperia x1 as soney is style.

I'm supposing this is the Raphael?

Posted by Dogmann
@WhyBe

Yes it is, and i have pointed out in the relevant thread this will be available months before the X1. Also it is very likely to be in various Network branded versions to so just who will buy the X1 later and Sim Free? is the biggest question.

Business users are used to getting there devices subsidized or free so i really doubt they will want to pay for a Sim Free X1 at a premium price. This i think besides it coming to market later is going to be it's biggest hurdle to over come and be successful. As really there are just not enough SE fans that are going to be willing to buy it sim free as opposed to heavily subsidized by a Network.

Unfortunately this goes for the US to where HTC also have carrier branded and subsidized versions that again will be available months before the X1. I really can't see carriers carrying a device so similar to one they already have.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-28 20:48 ]

Posted by WhyBe

On 2008-05-28 21:46:21, Dogmann wrote:
@WhyBe

Yes it is, and i have pointed out in the relevant thread this will be available months before the X1. Also it is very likely to be in various Network branded versions to so just who will buy the X1 later and Sim Free? is the biggest question.

Business users are used to getting there devices subsidized or free so i really doubt they will want to pay for a Sim Free X1 at a premium price. This i think besides it coming to market later is going to be it's biggest hurdle to over come and be successful. As really there are just not enough SE fans that are going to be willing to buy it sim free as opposed to heavily subsidized by a Network.

Unfortunately this goes for the US to where HTC also have carrier branded and subsidized versions that again will be available months before the X1. I really can't see carriers carrying a device so similar to one they already have.

Marc

Well, I will for one. I don't expect to get X1 subsidized because I didn't get my p910 that way either. I'm also looking into getting the X1i, as opposed to the X1a to remove the video framerate restriction. I believe the HSDPA band in my area (2100) will work with the 'i' version.

There are obviously going to be contenders to the X1 as we have seen in this thread. But for me, the magic formula for me to choose any device is features, relative small size and sexiness. I need all three. I'll check out the Raphael and Diamond when my at&t buddy starts carrying them around, but, I doubt if they will have the appeal to me the way X1 does. I like the "complete package" supposedly being offered by

. So I don't mind

waiting for the U.S. Christmas season to release the X1.

But unlike some i don't think it is a Multimedia power house the fact it uses the inferior 3gp and has a lower quality support for H.264 proves that IMO.

Don't forget the N95 has a lower video resolution while the X1 does video at VGA resolution. 3gp is just a version of H.264 modified for the constraints of mobile phones.

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-28 22:04 ]