Posted by JAGUY85
SE rescue us from this HTC onslaught!
Posted by QVGA
Wow seriously though can SE do anything right these days? They messed up P990 and they are going down the same road.
Posted by >500
On 2008-05-08 08:27:14, QVGA wrote:
Wow seriously though can SE do anything right these days? They messed up P990 and they are going down the same road.
im not following?
the x1 isnt even out yet, you cant say they are going down the same road.
so its being released in 2nd half of 2008, ah, so is, for example, the n96.
Posted by ares
Could not care less about this...SE should have let HTC handle the software part also, they are way more used to develop in WM...SE should have their engineering resources focused on UIQ, not on this....
Posted by QVGA
On 2008-05-08 11:33:46, >500 wrote:
On 2008-05-08 08:27:14, QVGA wrote:
Wow seriously though can SE do anything right these days? They messed up P990 and they are going down the same road.
im not following?
the x1 isnt even out yet, you cant say they are going down the same road.
so its being released in 2nd half of 2008, ah, so is, for example, the n96.
I'm not talking about releasing late. I'm talking about messing a phone up. Clearly this Xperia thing was too good to be true and now we've heard it wont come with all its bells and whistles.
Posted by >500
sorry where did it say it isnt coming with all bells and whistles? am i missing something?
Posted by QVGA
On 2008-05-08 12:20:07, >500 wrote:
sorry where did it say it isnt coming with all bells and whistles? am i missing something?
Yes you are. Read the previous pages.
Posted by >500
what, the thing from MR?
Posted by ares
>500 is right...the fact SE is having troubles in finishing X1´s software does not mean it won´t perform has expected in the end...
Posted by aksd
LOL, the only noticeable bells and whistles on the X1 were the panels, which is still going to exist. I really wonder what these "other" plugins are that Eldar spoke about. And any thinking lacking by SE the WM modding community will make up for. Even if it launches without those panels, the diamonds Touch screen can be ripped and used on the X1, the TOuchFlo 3D or Manila interface is already running albeit very slowly, but to an extent on present HTC phones, its not usable though. So I definately would'nt write off the X1 just yet and end up looking like a fool after its released
_________________
Regards,
Akshay
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-08 13:15 ]
Posted by bavlondon2
They should just scrap the X1 its just going to end up another mess like with the P990. By the time it comes out people will be focused on other things. But at least it should be cheap.
Posted by Mige
On 2008-05-08 15:09:57, bavlondon2 wrote:
By the time it comes out people will be focused on other things. But at least it should be cheap.
not necessarily
Posted by chombos1
@bavlondon...
well really???.... can you tell me what my final exams marks will be?
i just tought that you are aware of the future.
but correct. if the X1 is going to be another P990; then they should cancel it now or correct the software BEFORE release.
i still can't forget what SE done to us with the P990.
Posted by aksd
On 2008-05-08 15:09:57, bavlondon2 wrote:
They should just scrap the X1 its just going to end up another mess like with the P990. By the time it comes out people will be focused on other things. But at least it should be cheap.
People were so excited about the X1 till the HTC Diamond announcement
, and of course Eldars comments. We'll whatever said and done, its still the phone it was at its announcement. Reduction of a few plugins few people would use is'nt going to change that . Little do people realize that there are more than enough apps already developed to make the X1 a good buy depending on the pricing.
THe next HTC with a keypad may actually be thicker than the X1, which still looks extremely professional, and with a full metal body it should feel good as well. I hope the screen is of better quality than the TyTn2(material wise).
I fail to understand why Eldars comments affect peoples judgement on the phone, I understand if it was a non smart phone, then you're stuck with any old rubbish they throw at you with respect to apps, but this is a smartphone, not just any smartphone but its powered by WM
, the number of apps avaialbe for it are countless and increasing by the day. Most probably even if it comes with all the plugins etc, you'll end up using a 3rd party application to do the same job. Eg: Even if SE's media player is so fancy I'd still use coreplayer, it supports almost all know codecs and video playback is fabulous. So I think before jumping to conclusions I think we must be patient to see what the end product has to offer.
If SE want to target the buisness market they'd either need to go with S60 or WM because of the app support, and they've chosen WM, not to bash UIQ or anything but I really cant see anything all that special in UIQ and the number of devs are far fewer. I like UIQ used to use an M600i and used a P1i for a while, but the OS feels lacking in some ways. I at least hope the newer version has some sort of kinetic scrolling in the least, cant imagine pulling out a stylus or using a finger nail to scroll on todays touch screens
On 2008-05-08 15:20:03, chombos1 wrote:
@bavlondon...
but correct. if the X1 is going to be another P990; then they should cancel it now or correct the software BEFORE release.
i still can't forget what SE done to us with the P990.
how can it be another P990, its not UIQ
, the platform it has been built on is tried and tested and is basically and evolution of the TyTn II which has won several accolades and would have been "perfect" for its time if it was'nt for the 3D driver fiasco.
_________________
Regards,
Akshay
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-08 14:33 ]
Posted by WhyBe
What's the deal with these WinMo GUIs (TouchFlo 3D and Xperia)? Is it the chipset or the OS causing the graphics sluggishness?
Posted by aksd
On 2008-05-08 15:32:11, WhyBe wrote:
What's the deal with these WinMo GUIs (TouchFlo 3D and Xperia)? Is it the chipset or the OS causing the graphics sluggishness?
WIth the Xperia it could be the 3D drivers have'nt been implemented yet. I did'nt see much slugishness with the Diamond, and according to several people who were present at the event a few models were a bit sluggish while others were quite fluid in their animations(reference from www.modaco.com). It depends which ones video you saw. It might be that there were different builds as test phones. And as you see from the videos the RAM claimed 128MB when in reality it is going to be 192MB, so there will be a hardware upgrade before release.
Also while testing a "test" WM6.1 ROM on my TyTn II, the device became sluggish, this is due to improper optimization of the OS while compiling. Might have been a similar problem as they were all prototypes.
Posted by rambo47
On another forum about another phone, this guy posted some pics and a link to his site. He has the X1 on a "pre-sale" basis for $1799!! That's gonna hurt! The rest of his prices are in line, so it's not like he's posting wild-ass prices all around. If that's any indication of the official price at release, well, that's not good.
http://www.dechowireless.com/[....]ERICSSON_XPERIA_X1-pid264.html
Posted by chombos1
@aksd
yes... i konw that... it's WM6.1 and is made by microsoft.
and it's platform is tested and it will perform well.
@rambo47
maybe it is $799.
Posted by single_luis
Well, the truth ... I do not think they saw the P5 is possible that these two teams are given some of the most orders do not believe that one already possesses the 5MP and another 6.0 windows myself hope that the P5 exit the 3G 850
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: single_luis on 2008-05-08 15:38 ]
Posted by imranbashir
On 2008-05-08 12:15:16, ares wrote:
Could not care less about this...SE should have let HTC handle the software part also, they are way more used to develop in WM...SE should have their engineering resources focused on UIQ, not on this....
Xperia with TouchFLO 3D that would be great!
Posted by imranbashir
I fail to understand why Eldars comments affect peoples judgement on the phone, I understand if it was a non smart phone, then you're stuck with any old rubbish they throw at you with respect to apps, but this is a smartphone, not just any smartphone but its powered by WM
, the number of apps avaialbe for it are countless and increasing by the day. Most probably even if it comes with all the plugins etc, you'll end up using a 3rd party application to do the same job. Eg: Even if SE's media player is so fancy I'd still use coreplayer, it supports almost all know codecs and video playback is fabulous. So I think before jumping to conclusions I think we must be patient to see what the end product has to offer.
I totally agree with this, when I first heard about the phone it wasn’t the panels that interested me it was the hardware. It is now to far down the line to start changing the hardware, so the phone will be fine.
I would have probably removed the panels interface anyway, and reassigned the X button to say connectivity or navigation.
The only other thing they can get wrong is the camera interface, and media manager. But again there are alternatives so no need to worry. In fact that probably a blessing in disguise as that means less for SE to get wrong!
The only thing anyone should be worried about is video drivers, competition, and price. I’m not sure how good the people over at XDA-Developers are, but trying to cook the ROM to include TouchFlo 3D might be difficult, as the screen resolution is different so is the aspect ratio.
Posted by WhyBe
From the videos, the only glaring X1 problem I saw was the choppy/sluggish graphics. Everything else appeared to be OK. Even the camera interface was pretty slick with the touch focus and all.
So if this vague info from Eldar has any validity, what specific problems is SE having with the X1?
[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-09 04:57 ]
Posted by aksd
On 2008-05-08 18:18:43, imranbashir wrote:
The only thing anyone should be worried about is video drivers, competition, and price. I’m not sure how good the people over at XDA-Developers are, but trying to cook the ROM to include TouchFlo 3D might be difficult, as the screen resolution is different so is the aspect ratio.
I beg to disagree here
, actually TOuchFlo 3D will be better on the X1. TouchFlo 3D is nothing but a today screen plugin that covers the entire area of the display. This limits the usage of other plugins which is what WM is famous for. If you want to use your plugins with the Diamond you'd have to disable the TOuchFlo today plugin. But once TouchFlo is installed on the X1, you'd have a bit more real estate on the screen to run your own plugins . You'd also have the SE panels , which is more of an application. SO you get best of both worlds
Posted by MYB87
i dont think you will be able to use the touchFLO 3D from the diamond in X1 coz of screen size and resolution
Posted by aksd
Screen size has nothing to do with it. And since the resolution is larger its not an issue, especially when the resolution is larger length wise. That leaves a bit of open area on the screen to the top or the bottom. There will be issues in landscape mode, but in portrait I doubt that there would be any problem.
A beta version of VGA touchFlo 3D is running although only at 3-4 fps on current HTC phones of QVGA resolution. Link to TOuchFLo 3D i.e Manila on HTC phones
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=363500
_________________
Regards,
Akshay
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-09 07:02 ]
Posted by karlosperu
New update on Sony Ericsson site. Now Xperia X1 has another back
[ This Message was edited by: giancito on 2008-05-09 23:15 ]
Posted by Yakkaimono
The brushed metal battery cover looks much better than the plain one.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-05-08 15:39:05, rambo47 wrote:
On another forum about another phone, this guy posted some pics and a link to his site. He has the X1 on a "pre-sale" basis for $1799!! That's gonna hurt! The rest of his prices are in line, so it's not like he's posting wild-ass prices all around. If that's any indication of the official price at release, well, that's not good.
http://www.dechowireless.com/[....]ERICSSON_XPERIA_X1-pid264.html
It's not officially available yet so how can he sell it? My guess is "pre-sale" is just a fancy term for "order now". If you buy this phone for $1799, you might if you are lucky get delivery a day or two before it hits the stores everywhere else. But by the time it does hit the stores the phone will be 40% cheaper. So if you want to spend several hundred dollars to get the phone a day or two early, go for it. I know myself I'll be waiting atleast three months after release before buying.
Posted by WhyBe
Wouldn't it be nice if this phone, up until it's release date, kept evolving into something greater? Seeing as how they announced it so early and it being on the higher end of the price scale, maybe SE has some pleasant suprises in store?
Posted by Osmano
I'll keep my fingers crossed for that
Posted by bavlondon2
Thats just wishful thinking imo. This isnt iphone. lol
Posted by Residentevil
On 2008-05-10 02:59:57, max_wedge wrote:
On 2008-05-08 15:39:05, rambo47 wrote:
On another forum about another phone, this guy posted some pics and a link to his site. He has the X1 on a "pre-sale" basis for $1799!! That's gonna hurt! The rest of his prices are in line, so it's not like he's posting wild-ass prices all around. If that's any indication of the official price at release, well, that's not good.
http://www.dechowireless.com/[....]ERICSSON_XPERIA_X1-pid264.html
It's not officially available yet so how can he sell it? My guess is "pre-sale" is just a fancy term for "order now". If you buy this phone for $1799, you might if you are lucky get delivery a day or two before it hits the stores everywhere else. But by the time it does hit the stores the phone will be 40% cheaper. So if you want to spend several hundred dollars to get the phone a day or two early, go for it. I know myself I'll be waiting atleast three months after release before buying.
Looks like only $949 to me on that site. That is what I see on other sites as well. So this price is in line with others posted.
Posted by p85w
On 2008-05-10 19:53:39, bavlondon2 wrote:
Thats just wishful thinking imo. This isnt iphone. lol
NO, I really hope that it isn't that worthless.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-05-10 21:06:41, Residentevil wrote:
Looks like only $949 to me on that site. That is what I see on other sites as well. So this price is in line with others posted.
Now maybe, but a few days ago it was listed as $1799!!
$949 is more what I would expect for a phone of this calibre.
Posted by mode
Question is, is 128mb of RAM enough for a WM device? WM devices are known to be memory hungry. I was hoping SE would up their game and throw in 192-256mb RAM, something unheard of (like what HTC Diamond is now packing) to address to the WM situation or perhaps as an allowance for future killer apps that may require a tremendous amount of RAM. I wouldn't have a doubt if it were running on UIQ
Posted by WhyBe
Are there any current WM apps that need that much memory?
Posted by Mige
X1 or P5?
Posted by mode
On 2008-05-11 03:57:11, WhyBe wrote:
Are there any current WM apps that need that much memory?
I'm not referring to any single app, more for seamless multitasking
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-05-11 02:34:12, mode wrote:
Question is, is 128mb of RAM enough for a WM device? WM devices are known to be memory hungry. I was hoping SE would up their game and throw in 192-256mb RAM, something unheard of (like what HTC Diamond is now packing) to address to the WM situation or perhaps as an allowance for future killer apps that may require a tremendous amount of RAM. I wouldn't have a doubt if it were running on UIQ
I agree more than 128 would not be unwelcome, but I think it will run fine with 128. That's still a fair bit of memory, expecially if you store Apps on the mem card. Personally I actually don't find WM to be that much of a memory hog. Poorly written programs can pull the OS down, but if you have a good suite of apps that run well, then you can usualy have a fair bit happening before it starts to grind.
Using a third party task switcher that allows you to fully close apps when you close them also helps the mulit-task situation. Why have programs running that you aren't using?
Posted by mode
Using a third party task switcher that allows you to fully close apps when you close them also helps the mulit-task situation. Why have programs running that you aren't using?
The question is, why not? Constant closing of apps reduces battery life and being a work beast that it is, unnecessary power waste is the last thing it needs
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2008-05-11 06:51:48, max_wedge wrote:
On 2008-05-11 02:34:12, mode wrote:
Question is, is 128mb of RAM enough for a WM device? WM devices are known to be memory hungry. I was hoping SE would up their game and throw in 192-256mb RAM, something unheard of (like what HTC Diamond is now packing) to address to the WM situation or perhaps as an allowance for future killer apps that may require a tremendous amount of RAM. I wouldn't have a doubt if it were running on UIQ
I agree more than 128 would not be unwelcome, but I think it will run fine with 128. That's still a fair bit of memory, expecially if you store Apps on the mem card. Personally I actually don't find WM to be that much of a memory hog. Poorly written programs can pull the OS down, but if you have a good suite of apps that run well, then you can usualy have a fair bit happening before it starts to grind.
Using a third party task switcher that allows you to fully close apps when you close them also helps the mulit-task situation. Why have programs running that you aren't using?
Totally agreed. When WM Pro devices went from 64 to 128MB RAM they sang like a spring bird. HTC Diamond & TyTN II need the 256MB & 192MB respectively because of the Touch GUI overlea. Its VERY demanding and to be honest this is something Microsofts engineers/coders should've done from the get go.
Posted by norti
On 2008-05-11 07:02:51, mode wrote:
Using a third party task switcher that allows you to fully close apps when you close them also helps the mulit-task situation. Why have programs running that you aren't using?
The question is, why not? Constant closing of apps reduces battery life and being a work beast that it is, unnecessary power waste is the last thing it needs
You're wrong. Running applications consume more power than closing them. They use CPU and RAM in the background, how could they be battery friendly?
Posted by aksd
We'll theres no single app that can eat over 80MB of ram on the phon. Although with the larger screen size an app that ate about 1MB RAM on a QVGA screen should eat about 3-4MB on the VGA one. So putting in a bit more RAM would have been useful. But in "normal" daily usage it should be sufficent, unless like me you run pointUI, SPBMobile shell, GPS, CorePlayer and a host of other applications simultaneously, but if you did do that, battery life would be the least of your concern
.
Posted by mode
You're wrong. Running applications consume more power than closing them. They use CPU and RAM in the background, how could they be battery friendly?
AFAIK idle programs do not consume power, only when you're multitasking (eg listening to the mediaplayer while surfing the web) in which case all the apps are running at the same time. What I'm saying is some apps are convenient to be lying idle in the background while performing certain tasks with other apps. This saves time and power as compared to having to constantly open and close apps in the background. As we all know, P990 is useless in multitasking, apps have to be opened and closed all the time, that's why the battery drains much faster than P1 with the same battery.
_________________
Ericsson EH97, GA628, GF768, A2618s, T29s Sony Ericsson T68i, S700i, P990i, Z558i
P990i + WG1 R6E28 + 8GB Sandisk MSPD + BST-40
[ This Message was edited by: mode on 2008-05-11 08:40 ]
Posted by aksd
On 2008-05-11 09:35:42, mode wrote:
You're wrong. Running applications consume more power than closing them. They use CPU and RAM in the background, how could they be battery friendly?
AFAIK idle programs do not consume power, only when you're multitasking (eg listening to the mediaplayer while surfing the web) in which case all the apps are running at the same time. What I'm saying is some apps are convenient to be lying idle in the background while performing certain tasks with other apps. This saves time and power as compared to having to constantly open and close apps in the background. As we all know, P990 is useless in multitasking, apps have to be opened and closed all the time, that's why the battery drains much faster than P1 with the same battery.
[ This Message was edited by: mode on 2008-05-11 08:40 ]
Idle programs DO consume more power than completely closed programs
. When a program is idle, it is still using hardware resources albeit to a very much reduced extent. Eg: If my TyTn II is in idle with the usual background processes, it consumes 7maH, but if I close all the non critical proceses I can drop the consumption to about 1 - 2maH in idle. Thats like a 3-7 time decrease in comsumption. Its actually better to start an app when required and close it when it is'nt, anyway when you touch the touch screen consumption jumps to about 100mah, and opening of the app will not further load the CPU, although running it will.
Regards,
Akshay
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-11 08:56 ]
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-11 09:07 ]
Posted by Osmano
Hi all!
Regarding price. I found this pre-price at a swedish site:
http://www.mobil.se/ArticlePa[....]/20080210193845_MOB550.dbp.asp
6344 sek = 680€
Posted by mode
Idle programs DO consume more power than completely closed programs
. When a program is idle, it is still using hardware resources albeit to a very much reduced extent. Eg: If my TyTn II is in idle with the usual background processes, it consumes 7maH, but if I close all the non critical proceses I can drop the consumption to about 1 - 2maH in idle. Thats like a 3-7 time decrease in comsumption. Its actually better to start an app when required and close it when it is'nt, anyway when you touch the touch screen consumption jumps to about 100mah, and opening of the app will not further load the CPU, although running it will.
Regards,
Akshay
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-11 08:56 ]
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-05-11 09:07 ]
It probably consumes some power remaining idle in the background, but is it as much as constant opening and closing of apps? I doubt it
Posted by aksd
Like I said, touching the screen causes a greater power output than opening an app, say messaging via keypad, maybe you should stop touching the screen then to save battery?
.
I have done extensive battery tests, with hard values, not just theory with a Windows based phone, i.e. HTC TyTn II. Apps are not recommended in the background, it takes up unecessary cpu power which is'nt in excess in todays phones, as CPU usage increases so does the battery usage, so if you've got your background apps consuming a steady 5-10% usage, an app requiring say 50% usage, would actually be causing 60% CPU usage, and this is an additional load on the battery and the phone, due to the increase in load, you get a bit of additional heat generated as well, which further reduces efficeny of the CPU.
Its a universal fact in the computer world that if an app is no longer required it needs t be closed and return resources. If a useless app hogs resources it will most definatley result in a crash of the system. Keeping an app in the RAM not only affects your battery life, but the overall processing ability of your system.
Posted by mode
I thought the whole point of current UIQ3 device RAMs being upgraded to 128mb these days IS to enable multitaksing and more apps to remain in the background for faster access. What else would they be for then?
Posted by aksd
The RAM is upgraded so as to run larger programs, and more programs when required, not to open as many programs and to leave them there till the next restart.
Certain programs such as the dialer, messaging etc, are automatically loaded up into the RAM at boot for quick access. But say you're running GPS, you're not going to want it to drian your battery in like an hour running in the background, or a browser which again will eat into your battery. Also the first time you've loaded a program into the RAM and then closed it, the entire program is not removed from the RAM, but certain components that are frequently accessed remain in the RAM, let the developer decide which portion of the program resides in the RAM and which does'nt.
in UIQ phones there was a severe shortage of RAM, therfore the increase, when you constantly run an app, UIQ or SYmbian in its fir series 9 version was not returning the RAM ,i.e destroying its objects, while Nokia solve dhte issue to an extent SE provided more RAM so even if an app did'ntreturn the RAM there was sufficent RAM to prevent a crash.
I've got 4GB RAM on my comp, does'nt mean I'm going to open so many apps so that I'm left with none. For efficent working of s system there must be a lot of free RAM for the system to load up local variable, icons etc.. during its normal execution, RAM is not some sort of storage area for you to use as a temporary location for your programs.
Also Manfacturers add more RAM assuming that the end user of a smartphone has the basic common sense in realizing more open apps result in less battery life, till recent I was running PointUI in the background on my TYTn2 and this reduced my battery life from about 12 hrs to 8, this also depends on the optimization of the software forthe particula hardware. To go into details would be over kill for this post and its not related to the subject of this thread. But the bottom line is more open apps = less battery life, ask on any Computer based forum and thats the same answer you will recieve. Wheather you want to believe it or not is upto you, but I've conducted several tests, there are apps in WM which tell you battery consumption at that second as well as processor usage and temperature of the system.