Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-04-04 11:35:50, aksd wrote:
In the same way SPB shell or point ui replaces the today screen, verysuperfically, you can make sure it does'nt if you want.
You'll have pople asking me now how I know without using the phone, lol, but in WM you can always return to the today screen, it cannot be completely replaced. The panels are more like a launcher than a today screen replacement, they might call it a replacement of the today screen but its not, as soon as you press the end key it should go back to the WM today screen as far as I know, otherwise with a tiny registry edit you can make the WM today screen appear with a touch of the red key.
Max, never thought about modding the panels, but like you said its going to happen, should be fun(If I buy the handset
, seems like HTC have a few big launches planned which wil out gun the X1 ).
Well, SE have said they plan not to restrict access to the panels and they encourage third party additions. But imo even simple xml "hacks" will be possible quite easily. It'll be much like menu.ml modding as we do with SE A100 mobiles.
@Muhammad Oli, yeah, what aksd says
Xperia is not a complete replacement of the Today Screen, it's a shell that runs over the top. I'd be surprised if there wasn't an option to set the Today screen as the active standby screen rather than Xperia. Or the ability to set any panel (and Today can bet set as one of the panels) as the active standby screen.
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
@max_wedge: Ah right, I see how its going to work out. I'll leave you guys alone now.
Posted by aksd
On 2008-04-04 15:14:21, Muhammad-Oli wrote:
@max_wedge: Ah right, I see how its going to work out. I'll leave you guys alone now.
You dont need to leave us alone, it would get boring
. There has to be somebody who asks questions otherwise whats the point
Posted by mib1800
The panels look similar to spb screen with plugins. In the yt video, the only plugin that is currently working is the clock
. Instead of one customisable standby screen, you now have 9 screens. I wonder what would happen when the plugins on all the 9 panels are loaded up. This may eat up all the 128Mb RAM leaving nothing for other things.
Posted by aksd
On 2008-04-04 18:38:25, mib1800 wrote:
The panels look similar to spb screen with plugins. In the yt video, the only plugin that is currently working is the clock
. Instead of one customisable standby screen, you now have 9 screens. I wonder what would happen when the plugins on all the 9 panels are loaded up. This may eat up all the 128Mb RAM leaving nothing for other things.
Its nowehere like SPB 2.0 if thats what you mean. Its far more advanced and got hell of a lot more eye candy
. With all plugins loaded up it should eat into something like 10-20MB of the 80MB available RAM. My tytn2 has never dropped belo 28MB free RAM with about 12 apps open simultaneously(depends on the apps of course)
Posted by max_wedge
it all depends how the panels work. For example panels that are just short cuts to the image gallery, or music player etc presumably are just fancy thumbnails - the app itself won't load unless you select the panel.
XML panels also shouldn't take up too much memory.
However any panel that displays dynamic content (presumably the clock for example) would use a bit of memory, depending on the type of content.
Any widget panel (for example a c++ panel) would presumably use a fair bit of memory depending on the task it's performing.
There are already Today screen plugins that are running apps. For example you can get a Today screen plugin that incorporates a music player - but the music player is running the whole time the plug in is active. I personally don't use this plug, since it seems just as easy to have a shortcut to music (and to just wait the second or two for the app to load when I want music).
But then other plugins are too useful and use very little memory, so I expect panels will be the same. It will be up to the end user what panels they use, but the default panels will be relatively low users of ram.
So if you want to slow your phone down with useless crap you will be free to do so, just as you can now with today screen plugins.
Posted by mib1800
@aksd:
Its far more advanced and got hell of a lot more eye candy
Yes, the panel looks nicer than those from spb or htc but the concept of plug-ins is the same. I remembered installing spb on my Exec and it is a performance hog just for ONE customisable screen let alone the X1 9 panels. Like max_wedge was saying, you can't blame SE for lag if you load up the panels.
Actually, the panels are similar to S60 multimedia menu (or s40 standby panels and more recently the S60 fp2 or UIQ3 ) except that it is more fanciful. The main difference is X1 panels are add-on programs (i.e. take a hit on the OS) whereas the others are built-in/integrated as part of the OS.
Hopefully SE allows the option for the X1 panels to be unloaded. I would not want to use it if it has the lag shown in the yt video. I would rather stick to vanilla WM standby and menu (and maybe gain 20-40Mb of free RAM
)
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-04-05 03:55 ]
Posted by max_wedge
If it's that much, definitely.
I expect at most though a standard panels config would use no more than .5-1MB, maybe 2-3MB at a stretch. We don't really know what's causing the drag on this prototype. Notice also, the camera didn't work
So I think we can consider this a reasonably unplolished prototype!
It's common to see slow pre-release phones that improve drastically upon release.
Posted by mib1800
@max_wedge
0.5-1 mb for 9 panels? I dont think so. More like per panel. If I remember correctly the spb screen app are something like 6-8mb.
Posted by max_wedge
the panels could be as low as 2-3MB, my impression of spb is it could be better designed. The PointUI shell is pretty zippy, so shells don't have to be painfully slow. My hope is SE will pay enough attention to the code to atleast get it down to 3-4MB. But your figure is possible.
Still a lot short of 20MB imho
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all
Whilst some of the shells may be static and just shortcuts it looks like some may constantly be updating information in which case i would imagine they may well be resource intensive to be able to achieve this.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-04-06 01:32 ]
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-04-05 14:14:01, Dogmann wrote:
Whilst some of the shells may be static and just shortcuts it looks like some may constantly be updating information in which case i would imagine they may well be resource intensive o be able to achieve this.
Yes they are "active desktops", either xml files displaying phone info and web content, or actual applets written in c++. The xperia interface is an xml/html viewer, in other words a web-browser in effect, but a fancy one with a 9 frame view. Maybe Xperia is just a really fancy plugin for Pocket IE
(hmm, maybe mibs right about the memory... )
But in all seriousness, I think that an interface that does all that and still has efficient code is possible.
I'm a bit suss about the Aquarium panel though...
As always, people will have to decide between gloss and performance. I guess I'm the performance kind of guy. You won't get me running Aero on Vista for example, no matter how fast the machine.
I think at the worst, to get top performance out of your X1 you will need to limit your panel use to basic xml panels only and no live web feeds or multi-media displays in panels.
For business, I think a couple of rss feeds and a news site panel or two wouldn't add to badly to the cpu load though.
Third party panels will be the ones to watch for serious cpu hogging.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-04-05 13:44 ]
Posted by MIK-3
I am very curious to see if in the end this X1 will support AWS or not...
Posted by JohnKonor
Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional WVGA Today sreen:
Posted by max_wedge
nice, but no different from WM5.
Any screen caps of new stuff in WM6.1?
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for the K750[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-04-06 03:10 ]
Posted by strizlow800
Well there may be improvements in security, speed and stability only...
Tho though this is only my opinion
Posted by BoyBawang
Unlike Symbian, WinMobile allows more possiblity for firmware upgrade to next OS version. I believe Xperia updated with WM7 will be possible if we base the history of WM handhelds
The only problem is how SE will act about it considering their own history too 
Posted by aksd
Some of the features of WM7 require a hardware upgrade. So I wonder if it'll allow you to run Wm7 or the present generation hardware.
Posted by Jabe
I'm very interesred on this phone. I've always said that WM will not see my money, but I was so dissapointed in UIQ3 (in SE politics with symbian signing and therefore lack of the best uiq2 apps, to be exact) it's become more and more appealing. Now, when SE's produced xperia I'm even more determened to cross over to the WM side.
So i did a little research about WM, specially WM6 and WM6.1 and was left speechless when I saw the "updates" WM 6.1 brings. this one was the worst:
- the copy/paste function is now possible (but not in all applications)
i thought it was selfunderstood, not something v6.1 of any OS can brag about.
has wm any other such "surprises" compared to UIQ? I know a lot of you have tried both and will be able to answer that.
for example:
- can you surf the net (use data connection) and receive/make call at the same time?
or
- does it have limited storage for sms (for example 100) or can it use memory card space and store as many as the card can take?
You know, little things like that, things UIQ users don't even think about because they are so used to them. Of course I am also interested in better solutions (list them as well).
[ This Message was edited by: Jabe on 2008-04-08 11:22 ]
Posted by aksd
If you surf on EDGE you cannot make and recieve calls at the same time and that is the same with any OS. WIth 3G you can.
SMS storage is unlimited(as much as your memory card can hold)
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
I think he meant those questions to be examples. Like he wants to know other weaknesses and places where WM is lacking (and its strengths too).
Posted by aksd
On 2008-04-08 13:14:26, Muhammad-Oli wrote:
I think he meant those questions to be examples. Like he wants to know other weaknesses and places where WM is lacking (and its strengths too).
lol my bad
.
Lets see, whats missing from UIQ, we'll UIQ is a lot more end user friendly imo. You'll feel a bit bogged down with WM initially but once you get to grips with it its good. You'll spend hours getting it set up right, if set up right you can access all your improtant functions from the today screen.
You need to put in quite a bit of effort and time in getting things to your liking in WM whereas in UIQ things are good as they are, but once you get them right then its better than UIQ in my opinion. Its very hands on, so if you need to be prepared to be hands on with WM.
The dialer is'nt great, nothing beats a good hardware keypad for dialing.
I dont think WM allows you to multiple select in its core form, but with TouchFlo installed you can multiple select(I've only used TouchFlo so I'm not sure on this point) and copy and paste.
Strangely I've got copy paste in my messages and other programs where required in my WM6 kaiser.
Overall I dont think you should be too worried, if the OS does'nt do something theres usually a mod/app that fixes it.
But I advise you to wait a bit after its released to see if it performs well on the Multimedia front. If it does'nt its really not worth the money.
Posted by Jabe
Thank you for your reply. i don't mind some time setting the thing up, as long as i can make it work to my liking. I've just never owned a WM device and am not quite sure what to expect.
It will be at least 2-3 months before it's available on contract from my mobile provider so I am hoping there will be enough eager enthusiasts who will try it out thoroughly before I'm even able to get my hands on it
i don't doubt there will be plenty.
Posted by Jabe
On 2008-04-08 14:22:09, aksd wrote:
I dont think WM allows you to multiple select in its core form, but with TouchFlo installed you can multiple select(I've only used TouchFlo so I'm not sure on this point) and copy and paste.
I'm sorry, but what does that mean - multiple select.
I'm really into this device, because of 800x480 screen and HSUPA (apart from other specifications which are no less than great).
my demands are few, but i think the hardest to please:
- decent battery life (i know it's 1500Mah, but that tells me nothing, i want to see it's performance, specifications on paper will not do). not just for plain phone functions, but for multimedia as well
- decent speed (same thing with proccessor, I've had enough of lagging UIQ3)
both of those things require the phone to be released, so i guess I will have to wait before buying. These two can really be a deal breaker for me.
one more thing:
it it possible to use the phone as a modem, so i can use my phone's internet connection for internet on my PC? (sorry if it's a stupid question but better be save than sorry).
[ This Message was edited by: Jabe on 2008-04-08 17:32 ]
Posted by aksd
I meant select multiple files to copy/paste etc.
The battery life should be decent with moderate usage, you can monitor your battery usage and close battery intensive processes if you want to extend your battery stand by time.
I cant comment on the multimedia or processor capabilities as its not out yet, but on paper it looks good and if the implementation is what they claim then there should be virtually no or worst case a fraction of a second lag.
Yes it can be used as a modem, very easily in fact because of activesync.
Mayeb you can wait till May 6th before deciding as HTC is to release a few new models which might trump the X1 or mght be a few android devices lined up which will be worth purchasing.
Posted by chombos1
why not?
why multiple selecting is not possible? did you tested the device?
Posted by laurenke01
On 2008-04-04 07:27:45, Muhammad-Oli wrote:
I find it funny in the link above how they say its aimed at the US market, so all the Americans reading th article ask for CDMA! Don't they know CDMA is widely considered to be backward technology and that the rest of the world is going or has gone GSM? Do they not know that SE gave up on CDMA several years ago?
Now you see what I have to put up with.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-04-08 12:20:48, Jabe wrote:
- the copy/paste function is now possible (but not in all applications)
i thought it was selfunderstood, not something v6.1 of any OS can brag about
I've never had any issue with copy and paste in WM OS or WM apps, from all versions of pocket pc and WM that I've used. If the app doesn't support copy and paste then it's the app developers laziness not WM to blame.
You can multiple select items in a list for example, using the virtual keyboard CTRL key, or sequential items in a list using tap and drag to lasoo the items just as you can with a mouse.
So I'm not sure why this would be listed as a "new" feature of WM6.1, because it isn't
Posted by Jabe
I saw it here:
http://www.boygeniusreport.co[....]e-61-standard-in-100-pictures/
and some other websites as well. Once they were more specific, saying it's copy/pasting of text within certain apps (it's what i meant as well), not copy/pasting files. And for both versions - standard and pro.
Anyways, wm 6.1 has it so this should not be my concern any more. I was just trying to get more info if there were any more hidden "surprises" like that. I remember when I first bought UIQ phone (p900) i was really taken aback when i could find no profiles - you know stuff you don't even think about, stuff you think any phone has. Of course there may be 3rd party apps to compensate for these shortcomings (which is acceptable). specially if there is no tricks aimed at developers presented as greater security for the end user like "symbian signed" fiasco. After almost 2 years I still have no profiles support on my p990 (UIQ3).
[ This Message was edited by: Jabe on 2008-04-09 11:56 ]
Posted by aksd
No profiles on WM either
, I actually dont have a need for profiles, either I need it to ring or just vibrate. I'm not sure if there is any external software for profiles on Wm6 as well
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-04-09 14:38:17, aksd wrote:
No profiles on WM either
, I actually dont have a need for profiles, either I need it to ring or just vibrate. I'm not sure if there is any external software for profiles on Wm6 as well
My HP HW6900 has the HP profiles app as standard. I'd say it wouldn't be hard to find third party solutions if needed for vanilla WM's.
On 2008-04-09 12:49:47, Jabe wrote:
I was just trying to get more info if there were any more hidden "surprises" like that. I remember when I first bought UIQ phone (p900) i was really taken aback when i could find no profiles - you know stuff you don't even think about, stuff you think any phone has.
There's bound to be something but it's the same when ever you move to a new platform. Nokia have some pretty obvious things missing that you take for granted on an SE phone, but then they have some things that SE have over looked completely. You'll never get away from this, otherwise all phones would be the same (and boring).
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-04-09 14:56 ]
Posted by masseur
Spb do some great software and their Phone Suite includes profiles
Posted by mib1800
spd mobile shell looks more practical/familiar interface than X1 panels.
Posted by max_wedge
I haven't tried either. Not too interested in paying for spb, I'd probably continue using "today" screen anyway. Maybe if they have a demo I'll give it a look see.
Posted by aksd
Naah I've paid for and use SPB mobile shell, I think the panels are better.
Posted by mario2004
Ok, now here is the big news. This device is all HTC + SE branding. Any comments?
Htc is going to rule the WM market. Qtek and Eten are the big losers.
Posted by WhyBe
Wasn't this already proven not to be totally true?
The phone is SE designed but just manufactured by HTC. That's a huge difference from being all HTC + SE branded.
Who has the facts straight?
Posted by mario2004
What exactly does make you think, SE designed this device ? ? ? Actually TyTN II looks more SE than this. The thing is, SE don't have a licence from Microsoft. I believe Nokia do not have either and went the Linux road. This is a HTC front and back (even the 3 odd MP cam is there plus wifi b/g module are all standard HTC). I find it very interesting how quickly SE fans 'adopt' it as a 'true' SE. Meanwhile the badge is the only 'true' SE design in there. And BTW, it took me a while to dig this one out
I expect all the SE fans to jump on me with 'evidence' to the contrary, but what I know is true and it will remain that way, bashing or no bashing HTC Rule -
Posted by aksd
Mario a few of your points on why its a HTC are quite funny imo. How does WiFi b and g make it comletely a HTC? Does that mean all the new Nokias as well as the SE G900 are all made by HTC? Also my laptop, it has wifi b/g does that make it a HTC
? Also I had a K790 with a 3 odd Mpx cam, is that a HTC as well?
WE'll lets clarify a few points here shall we? Its true SE does not have Windows CE License as far as we know, nor do they have a license for the Qualcomm processor, that does not mean its not an SE. Now looking at the exterior design, it screams out Sony Ericsson and not HTC, I own a TyTn2 and that seriously does NOT look SE from any angle I look at it.
This is what SE have most probably done, they've given HTC the specs of the device they want created, HTC along with SE designers came up with the X1 outer design. HTC + MS + SE software engineers worked on the panel design, as SE here is the buyer and HTC the provider, the final product eventualy has to be approved by SE.
This is know as "outsourcing" all major companies do it, from automobile to laptops, you just dont hear about it much in the news as its usually kept away from the publics view as it would tarnish the brand image.
btw since you're such a big HTC fan, I think you'd enjoy reading about HTC's greatness on this website http://www.htcclassaction.org/
I'm sorry to disappoint you but we already know that the X1 is being manufactured by HTC. And frankly the news is not very hard to find either.
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[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-04-10 18:16 ]
Posted by mario2004
Huh bud, you are good with words (turning around) but the facts are on my site. You can make as many assumtion as you want, facts are going to stay. I only got word of it all this afternoon. Look at the date of my above post. It may take weeks/monts before you'll catch up. I am not going to get into meaningless word fights in here. I will just watch the storm going on, and if you and the others finally see the truth, I will post again and point out the above post of mine and remind you - I knew it all along months before the mob - HTC Rules
Posted by aksd
I dont mean to get into a word fight(argument
) with you, but I fail to see any new info in your posts, we know the phone is being made by HTC.
See what truth? I'm not obsessed by "brands" for me to see any truth about any brand. Why is it that everybody is so brand oriented rather than buying something for the best value for money. Who cares if the X1 was made by HTC and rebadged, i'd still think its a great phone if it was made by xyz comany and badged as something else.
I fail to understand what you know before us etc.. If you mean to say that HTC are going to release something better than the X1, we all know that as well, theres the Diamond, the Raphael and the Dream, the Raphael being the replacement of the TyTn2 and direct competitior to the X1, but knowing HTC they'll over price the Raphael at launch. If this is what you're hinting at, sorry again its old news
.
If you have something to share thats actually new, I'm sure the esato members would love to hear it.
Posted by Dups!
@aksd
I wouldn't bother with
Mario if I were you, he's
just being himself-
bashing SE at every
turn. We all know that
Htc is making x1 and
that's just about it.
Everything else says SE.
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[ This Message was edited by: EMS06 on 2008-04-10 21:20 ]
Posted by mobman
On 2008-04-10 19:43:51, mario2004 wrote:
Look at the date of my above post. It may take weeks/monts before you'll catch up. I am not going to get into meaningless word fights in here. I will just watch the storm going on, and if you and the others finally see the truth, I will post again and point out the above post of mine and remind you - I knew it all along months before the mob - HTC Rules
wow - thats amazing cutting edge news! Only 7 months after the rest of us...
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=69711
whats your next piece of news going to be? That George Michael is gay?
[ This Message was edited by: mobman on 2008-04-11 14:11 ]
Posted by Dups!
Posted by WhyBe
I don't understand why HTC would make a phone that is clearly superior to everything on the market...including their own? That would seem like a pretty stupid business move.
I'm more prone to believe HTC is just a manufacturer outsourced by SE like most stories state.
Posted by Necromancer
"Whybe"
HTC is going to release a new phone that has almost the same specification or even more which is HTC Tytn III and there was leaked information about it
Beside HTC is looking for another operating system which is Android and there was some leaked information about HTC Dream that is going to be released in May or June
so its not a stupid move to manufactor the device with SE
Posted by WhyBe
Care to reveal any of that info or specs on these HTC's (Raphael/Diamond)? Being that X1 is on the cutting edge (and priced accordingly), I highly doubt it will be leapfrogged so soon--matched, yes, but not surpassed. Otherwise, this would mean the birth of the >$1000 super premium smartphone market. Given a form factor and pricepoint, there's only so much current technology that can be squeezed into it, thus tradeoffs have to be made.
[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-04-12 15:57 ]
Posted by misato
Hey
Does someone know if this phone has got a flash playa?
And does this phone support heavy 3d games?
Peace
Posted by Indiandawg
when x1 will hit the market? indian market?
Posted by Nitro Fan
Do you have to have the device in landscape with keyboard extended to compose text, write email surf the web,
OR
Can you surf & write etc on the touch screen in candybar mode?
Has anybody here actually used this thing yet? If so what are your impressions?
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[ This Message was edited by: Nitro Fan on 2008-04-15 10:55 ]