Posted by razec
^^
Well the SMT(N96's processor) whitepaper says the cpu clocks at 393Mhz(400Mhz almost) does faster CPU frequency really sucks more battery? life i am really bothered about the battery life of the N96 then given it's 900+mAh module
one more dude i hope it's okay, do you have any whitepaper for the MSM7200A cpu of X1?
btw, many thanks
Posted by aksd
I do not have one for the MSM7200A but I do have one for the MSM7200, got it just before it was brought down
I hope a rapidshare download is ok? http://rapidshare.com/files/101903370/MSM7200_Chipset.pdf.html
Regarding the battery life, its going to be low initially as it is, then you'll find a N96 updated version in hte near future with a bigger battery LOL!. A few more cycles per second wont affect the battery life too much. The RAZR2 uses a 500Mhz freescale processor with a 770maH processor and has about 5 hours talk time.
Posted by razec
On 2008-03-24 08:23:53, aksd wrote: The RAZR2 uses a 500Mhz freescale processor with a 770maH processor and has about 5 hours talk time.
So the software has something to do with this right? so if nokia manages S60 to be as efficient as linux then probably they wouldn't encounter serious battery issues then? also, i do hope S60 v9.3 FP2 has a better program code fascilitation
Posted by aksd
Linux if not optimized still wont be efficent any properly written code will be efficent if they've kept that in mind. But its a huge question mark on how well the N96 will perform.
My TyTn2 you can actually control the power consumption, you've got apps that tell you the amount of battery drain, I've managed to drop it to 1maH, so if I keep it in standby with 1maH my phon will last me 1600 hours
. Thats why I love WM, you can kill processes control each and every aspect of your phone like a comp.
Posted by razec
interesting askd, now i learn something new about WM
do you know something about the "carousel UI" WM6 has to offer?
Posted by aksd
No I dont, first time I;ve heard the term, but I'm quite new to the WM world, a noob actually
. If you mean the finger friendly UI, there are several, from SPB Mobile Shell to PoinUI which is free, that virtually takes over the entire WM UI can be found at www.pointui.com, but you loose out on the awesome WM today screen. Also theres the WM7 to be lanuched mid 2009.
Posted by max_wedge
aksd, good arguments mate, you've made some excellent points in the preceding posts.
Good point especially about WM being like a computer. This is one of the prime reasons I like WM over UIQ and s60 - neither s60 nor UIQ offer the same sort of flexibility and computer like experience that WM offers.
WM is based on Pocket PC. Pocket PC's are the REAL handheld computers, not the marketing gibberish "multimedia computer" that Nokia uses to describe the N95.
N95 is an awesome phone, no doubt, but it is not like a computer. It's a dedicated multimedia device, but has no where near the tweakability of what I think of as a computer.
As a computer tech of some years standing, Symbian just does not excite me as much as WM in a well spec'd device. Hence my excitement over X1.
Posted by aksd
Thanks max,
Was awaiting your posts to back me up, as a programmer(one with far far more experience than I
) you know what I mean when I'd say the Symbian has become more like a glorified Java phone rather than a true smartphone. In the truest sense of the word a smartphone just does'nt allow you to install native applications but configure and modify the existing kernel or shell to your requirement and should replicate the functionality and programmibilty of a desktop in your handheld, freedo to program . With the right drivers we could even boot linux from our PPCs which has been done on the HTC universal and other phones.
Nothing wrong with Symbian though, its perfect for the non-technical end user who wants a bit more utility than a standard OS.
Posted by mib1800
@max_wedge:
WM is based on Pocket PC. Pocket PC's are the REAL handheld computers, not the marketing gibberish "multimedia computer" that Nokia uses to describe the N95.
WM is very good being a "computer" OS but it just sucks at being a "computer +phone" OS.
Other than UIQ3, WM UI is one of the most user unfriendly and complex UI. And not to mention a bloated and relatively unstable OS.
Posted by aksd
In which world do you live mate, my TyTn2 is 5 months old and it has'nt restarted once or hung once on me. Bloated its not, unstable its not, but application do tend to corrupt the registry often, but thats a price you pay for having it so open with no form of restriction on the type of apps installable, non technical persons such as yourself fail to understand this. I suggest you stick to SE's java based propriety OS or maybe Samsungs suits you better with all the nice animations, should make you feel all warm inside
.
This topic is'nt about WM vs UIQ vs S60. But about the X1 and WM.
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-24 13:11 ]
Posted by bavlondon2
When do you think we will see the 1st reviews? I am sick o seeing pics with just those 9 panels and really want to see if the interface overall is nicer or does it just look different skin deep.
Posted by aksd
The interface is mostly just skin deep. A complete replacemnt of the existing UI is really not possible, new SDKs would need to be re-written not a small task, the 9 panel thing is like a quick lanucher application.
Posted by drgopoos
If u had used spb application( the best WM application) , we can see that they have virtually replaced the framework of the windows mobile explorer ( though) but the paths remains the same.
So SE should not have much difficulty in doing it with direct help from Microsoft
Posted by aksd
On 2008-03-24 19:04:05, drgopoos wrote:
If u had used spb application( the best WM application) , we can see that they have virtually replaced the framework of the windows mobile explorer ( though) but the paths remains the same.
So SE should not have much difficulty in doing it with direct help from Microsoft
Which SPB application do you refer to, I have purchased mobile shell 2.0. It has've replaced as such but just resides ontop of it to an extent, its more like the HTC cube rather than a UI replacement. Now the UI or shell.exe in WM cannot be killed without destabilizing the OS, with or without MS help, its ingrained into the OS, the entire OS needs to be re-written, with some programs such as SPB Mobile SHell and PointUI just because you cant see the OS does'nt mean that its not there. Imagine if you have 2 types of application for every app in Windows, it would become bloated and slow with lower amounts of RAM.
Posted by mib1800
@aksd:
In which world do you live mate, my TyTn2 is 5 months old and it has'nt restarted once or hung once on me.
Then you are very lucky.
My classmate has one and he hates it to the bone (and is now trying to get rid of it) because of the lousy battery life and the instability.
Posted by masseur
I've had my TyTN II since day 1 and still use it alot of the day, every day
there is no stability issue in mine and generally this is down to the badly written 3rd party software rather the WM6
The battery still has life after a full day and thats all I need as I charge it each night as it get synchronised with my pc. I do have a 2800mah battery for use on long flights from/to Australia/UK
I'll say it again that since WM2003SE I almost never have to press the soft reset button which was a daily occurrence before that
Posted by mib1800
@masseur
well, this classmate of mine do have quite a few 3rd party software. Maybe that is the problem. I have not use WM6 but I have wm5 (atom exec - mostly bare of 3rd party sw) which still have the occasional lock-up esp when using wifi.
Posted by max_wedge
WM is not the unstable device it once was. Much more reliable. I agree to an extent that s60 is much more seemless as a phone, but WM just beats it hands down on those computer geeky types of things.
And I have to agree with mass. the WM platform is stable since WM5. If you choose your applications well, WM will run like a dream. I also don't have problem with battery life, and WM imho gets better standby time than any phone I know of. If you use it for wireless comms of any kind it does suck juice, but what else can you expect?
Posted by anonymuser
I can vouch for the majority view - my Tytn II is also five months old, and reliable as the day is long. There is no instability in WM6, it's rock solid, and actually a lot more stable than the UIQ3 phone my Tytn replaced.
As others have said, it's a "real" computer, and that means it runs "real" software that can, if poorly coded, effect the performance of the device as a whole. There are some bad apps out there that will crash or freeze a WM6 phone, but that's not the fault of the OS itself - and is easily avoided.
I used UIQ and UIQ3 for four years, but I'm now a total convert to Windows Mobile, and looking forward to the X1. This is not the behaviour of someone who has to soft-reset every day.
Posted by mib1800
Vanilla wm6 may be very stable. But who really use a wm without installing 3rd party software? If the wm is unstable with 3rd party software then in my book, it is unstable and unrealiable. A well designed OS should be immune to 3rd party instability.
Case in point is my exec. I installed an app (think it is from spb - can't remember the name) and this app conflict with the phone radio component. The UI is still running giving you a false sense of security but calls/message cannot come in. Since WM2003 this kind of major critical bug is still there. I never encounter this type of problem in my N95/N82 even with a lots of 3rd party apps installed.
That is one reason why I am not using my exec as my main phone because it is just not dependable as a phone. It is very good as being PDA but it is still not up to scratch as a phone+pda until MS fix this phone-pda integration issue. And maybe also improve the battery gorging of some built-in app like IE/wifi/media player.
Posted by anonymuser
The issue isn't 3rd party software, just poor quality software, wherever it comes from.
Again it goes back to the difference between a real computer, and a phone with some add-on functionality. If you install poor quality software on your computer then you're likely to run into problems; if you exercise a little care then it'll be fine - the same applies to WM6.
Symbian is less susceptible simply because it's less powerful, and much more limited in what it will allow the user - or their software add-ons - to actually do in the first place.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-03-25 12:36 ]
Posted by aksd
@mib
Maybe your friend does'nt know how to use WM, I have over 60+ apps installed, no problems whatsoever, he needs to maintiain registry, make sure the right apps are stored in the right places, such as storage or device etc..
I have a Nokia 6600 and its worthless as a phone or a smartphone, its so slow that it takes me ages to open messaging, and it crashes on me several times a day. Symbian 9.3 with S60 FP2 sucks because my 6600 cant perform well
And iam running SPB apps on my TyTn2 with no issues, maybe you're using a cracked version, sometimes the cracked version has some issues.
Mind you I'm not anti S60 or anti any OS, but mindless criticism of any OS imo is uncalled for. You must first understand whom the prodcut was trgeted at before criticizing a product, I seriously doubt the TyTn2 was aimed at school going? kids.
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[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-25 13:31 ]
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all
I totally agree that a lot of problems with all platforms can usually to be traced to some piece of 3rd party software that causes a conflict and is why i only ever install what i actually need, rather than just what looks good or impresses.
Some here keep mentioning that WM is more powerful for real computing needs and can do more real computing type apps would anyone like to elaborate on just what they feel WM can do that S60 can't As i am pretty sure most if not all can be achieved by adding software to S60 but would be interested to see just what you feel WM can do that S60 can't as see if this is a correct assumption or not.
Marc
_________________
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Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-25 13:30 ]
Posted by aksd
@Marc,
1. We'll for one writing an app for WM is so much more easier no Symbian signed crap.
2. You can run scripts, scripts are basically code without a UI that can do tiny little helpful things for you.
3. While Symbian supports C++(in symbian form) and Java to a limited extent in WM I can program in C, Pascal, C++, .NET, J2ME(different JVMs offer different capabilities), J2SE(limited extent) with a certain JVM. Thus you get freedom to program.
4. Very few restricted APIs(Symbian signed again). The restricted APIs make Symbian a bit less powerful.
5. Symbian though has a few advantages with better hardware-software interaction as the number of types of devices are more limited and controlled by Nokia, while WM is developed on a wide range of platforms the hardware-software interaction is not as portable as Symbian(eg: answering machine software works on very few hardware platforms in WM).
6. WM offers open access to most of th system files, making editing the OS much easier.
7. You can see how much more can be written on WM by looking at the apps available, battery gauges(tell you about the battery output at the sec), temperature gauges, replacememt shells, stuff like Wisbar, none of that stuff on Symbian other than gdesk which I have'nt used so cannotn comment upon. I'm just listing a few apps which are at the top of my mind, maybe symbian have similar. The sheer number of apps for WM(many of the fully free) outnumber the symbian ones although there are more Symbian phones, this itself is proof enough about how much easier it is to program powerful apps for WM
I am at the moment a beginner at programming and these are the few advantages I can list out, regarding core programming we'd need a developer who develops for both platforms to comment. Eventually you might have similar apps, but to achieve the end result is a much more tedious process than with WM only due to symbian signed, but Symbian signed is excellent for the end user, it heavily restricts the type of apps to be installed thus making the platform more stable, but its a developers nightmare(at least a beginners).
Hope this answers your question, or if you want a more technical one I can get back to you on that.
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Akshay
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akshaydashrath/
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-25 13:54 ]
Posted by mib1800
@aksd:
In terms of IDE, wm definitely have the advantage but symbian is not far behind. Scripting (in the form of python) is available. Plus .NET support is in the work.
For us end-users, we are just interested in capability provided by the platform. Like you say, you will be hard-pressed to find a good call manager (incl. answering m/c) or call recording for wm. And I still can't find a profile manager for wm that work as well as bestprofile/handyprofile in S60. And some other apps that come to mine are: native lotus notes sync, upnp support and themes. And lastly (though this is nitpick) why can't wm has a clock screensaver that is visible at the time without draining the battery.
What WM excels is the standby screen with its plug-ins like showing at a glance info like weather etc.
Posted by aksd
@mib
.NET on the Symbian is worthless imo if theres still going to be symbian signed, its still going to be difficult for the tiny developers. And you're still going to have the restricted APIs THAT is what makes symbian a bit less powerful.
Thats what I've been trying to say, if a particular device does'nt cater to your needs does'nt make it inferior, I dont have need for an answering machine or a profile manager, all i need is ring+vibrate or vibrate, thats about it, I need raw processing power
, so I go WM, does'nt mean Symbian is any less just becuase I dont use it . Its upto the consumer to decide what he wants in a phone and purchase accordingly.
Posted by Dogmann
@akd
I actually didn't mean apps that people write themselves but want to install as just how small a percentage of people need to do that really. I was talking more about things like Symb allowing full WiFi file sharing and remote access and the other types of functionality people wish to add, although i admit WM does indeed have more available apps many of them are duplicates.
But as you say we all want different things from our devices so choose what suits us best and have no problem with that as personally i hate the look of some of the WM home screens as for me they look far to busy but that's just what i like. But when it come to Multimedia S60 is far more powerful then even the to be released X1 as that mainly supports only 3gp not h.264@ 30fps as for h.264 it drops to 15fps.
Marc
_________________
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Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @ http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-25 19:34 ]
Posted by SIGHUP
Yep, it always comes down to what the individual user needs are. X1 looks tempting. Has almost everything I need. But I have yet to see how the true function of a phone like dialing a number is achieved.
The whole window panels or windows whatever they call it, doesn't appeal to me very much. This is why I ended up with an n95. Trade-offs. Low battery life. But oh well. I'll carry a charger in my pocket or a SOLIO.
As far as I know the X1 doesn't have TV out right? Deal breaker for me.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-03-25 20:33:35, Dogmann wrote:
I was talking more about things like Symb allowing full WiFi file sharing and remote access and the other types of functionality people wish to add, although i admit WM does indeed have more available apps many of them are duplicates.
I'm curious why you think those examples aren't available on WM??
Are you saying you can't use WM as a remote access terminal or to access files by wifi? Both those are one of the things I use most on my HW6900. I regularly access files on my home network, and regularly use the HW6900 to term serv into my customers servers. Or VNC when they don't have RDP (example Win2k machines).
It's possible the other way too, but I rarely need to remote access my WM phone. I usually use Active Sync to grab files off my HW6900.
tbh honest I've always found it easier to use WM for these types of things than S60.
You are right though for the end user s60 and WM are identical in the sense that the end user just wants functionality that can be added easily and here having the right app to do so is the most important aspect. WM has far more application support than s60, including duplicates.
But to call s60 handsets "mini-computers" is only comparable to using windows only to install and run programs. If you like tweaking (above and beyond installing and using apps), then WM is unbeatable as far as the ability to firstly: program and script stuff yourself, and secondly: dig into the OS's guts and tweak it without the aid of anything more than a reg editor and a text editor.
I know this doesn't make a difference to the average end user, but for tech heads it does.
Posted by Dogmann
@Max
No i was asking what WM has in the way of available apps either free or paid for that S60 doesn't which is what is being suggested. Not as askd has pointed out the ability to write your own apps or reconfigure the registry but what S60 is missing that WM has.
As IMO the majority of users have little or no interest in being able to write their own apps or mess around with the registry they want it just to work and do what they want easily. As for writing your own apps that really is geeky and far beyond most users needs or what they want from their device IMO.
People are happy to claim WM is more powerful and can do more yet i can't really think of many if at all any apps or functions that be achieved on a WM device that can't on a S60 Device. Well not that a lot of people would want or need and when it comes to Multimedia IMO WM is definitely less powerful.
As for it being wrong to call some S60 devices mini computers i disagree completely my E90 is smaller has more Ram and more processing power then either of my Toshiba Libretto's had running Win 95 or NT and does all they could and more. It may surprise you that i have never had any interest or need to write my own apps or tweak registries besides which i wouldn't even know where to start and would think neither would the majority of users either. Those that would and want to are definitely the minority IMO.
Marc
_________________
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Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @ http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-26 00:46 ]
Posted by BobaFett
there are many sites to download tons of apps for symbian os or wm, i wouldnt either mess around with my fone, if there is a better and easier way to get what i want
Posted by aksd
@Marc
Its far easier to set up a PAN with WM rather than Symbian. You do have Wi-FI sharing etc.., which I hardly use as we dont have many Wi-FI networks which are accessable in India. I generally set up a bluetooth PAN which takes me less than 3 secs and it took me like 4 days with an M600i lol.
You are confusing with "hardware" power to "OS" power. The only reason Symbian is better at multimedia is because of better hardware at the moment. Does the N95 record h.264 at 30fps? I think the SE was about recording at h.264 at 15fps, not a big issue really, but playback should be at 30fps, anyway thats not the point here. If on identical hardware WM is more powerful. At the moment we're not comapring the X1 to the N95
. The h.264 is NOT a software limitation. If you say that Symbian phones are better at Multimdeia than WM phones, I will wholeheartadly agree with you but saying SYmbian is better than WM in multimedia is nonsense.
You E90 has far less processing power than your first comp even if it was just 60Mhz, I dont suppose you read through my processor posts otherwise you would'nt make that statement. Just because a device has RAM does'nt make it a computer. If you release a computer with the restrictions Symbian has, it'd fail on the market and get booed out of the industry.
Just because the techheads are a minority does'nt mean that our needs should'nt be catered to. And thats why we celebrat the X1
.
Posted by mib1800
@aksd
NET on the Symbian is worthless imo if theres still going to be symbian signed, its still going to be difficult for the tiny developers. And you're still going to have the restricted APIs
I think you are confusing platform security with capability.
Yes, you can tweak WM in whatever way you want and in this aspect WM is more powerful. But in other area like of OS supported services Symbian has the upperhand - case in point is call recording, profile, multimedia capability and accelerator type capability.
I generally set up a bluetooth PAN which takes me less than 3 secs and it took me like 4 days with an M600i lol.
On S60 it took me a couple of minutes to setup home media streaming (thru upnp + wifi). Does WM support upnp yet? Or how about built-in support of SIP?
If you release a computer with the restrictions Symbian has, it'd fail on the market and get booed out of the industry
This is left to be seen. Symbian signing restriction is bad for people who want cracked software or hackers. On the other hand WM is a haven for these people. But it is very bad for manufacturers/operators who have to pick up the mess when inexperience users brick their phones due to the easily corruptible and unrestricted OS. Because of this some operators only offer WM on their business plan so this restrict the availability and increase ownership cost of WM handsets.
Posted by aksd
WM6 has built in support but for some reason HTC have removed the drivers which are available.
I dont have WiFi, so you could say WM offers more flexibility as I find it quite easy to set up a Bluetooth PAN
. I'm not too dependant on networking and generally use my edge connection for sending recieveing mails so I really cant debate on the networking side of things.
Please read my above post, at accelerator side of things is hardware dependant.
Of course its not left to be seen, how do expect the smaller devs to do anything with Symbian Signed, if I need access I have to shell out my entire life savings on one screwed up licesnce, courtesy SYmbian, which eventuall enters Nokias very large coffers. Sorry mate,thats no what any small time programmer wants. Bottom line I really don care about the manufacturers as I;ve seen how they work from the inside, so lets not go into that. Most of the manufacturers are cheating the end user wheather you like to admit it or not. Do you know why Linux is a hit, no restrictions, imagine the outrage if MS closed down your entire OS, dont give me a "That is yet to be seen" answer because thats bullshit. I irks me that a company is so full of itself that it actually charges for you to write software for ITS platform. Like MS with Visual Basic you have to PAY to develop for them. Symbian signed would be a good thing if all APIs were avaialble free of charge and if you had to run it through SYmbian to make sure it does'nt harm the OS. BUT actually paying for restricted APIs and keeping APIs restricted wtf is that.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-03-26 04:34:33, aksd wrote:
Of course its not left to be seen, how do expect the smaller devs to do anything with Symbian Signed, if I need access I have to shell out my entire life savings on one screwed up licesnce, courtesy SYmbian, which eventuall enters Nokias very large coffers. Sorry mate,thats no what any small time programmer wants. Bottom line I really don care about the manufacturers as I;ve seen how they work from the inside, so lets not go into that. Most of the manufacturers are cheating the end user wheather you like to admit it or not. Do you know why Linux is a hit, no restrictions, imagine the outrage if MS closed down your entire OS, dont give me a "That is yet to be seen" answer because thats bullshit. I irks me that a company is so full of itself that it actually charges for you to write software for ITS platform. Like MS with Visual Basic you have to PAY to develop for them. Symbian signed would be a good thing if all APIs were avaialble free of charge and if you had to run it through SYmbian to make sure it does'nt harm the OS. BUT actually paying for restricted APIs and keeping APIs restricted wtf is that.
spot on aksd. It's not that we expect end users to write their own software. But the more open a system is, the more small developers write freeware, and the more variety of freeware is available. This makes a smartphone more expandable and useful to people who don't want to fork out $30 (or more) for every app they want. This is what has frustrated me about s60. Freeware apps (good ones) are a lot harder to find for s60 than paid for apps. I have (like aksd) sourced a shitload of freeware apps for WM devices. I use about 20 on my device at anyone time, and have about 100 or so that I use from time to time. That represents $3600 worth of programs in Symbian money (where I have to pay for the same thing). So a $1000 N95 would cost me $4600 in total to get the same functionality as my WM device at $1000.
Not good maths imho.
The fact is, much functionality for which WM offers a multitude of freeware solutions has NO freeware at all on the Symbian platform.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-03-26 03:46 ]
Posted by BobaFett
hard to find apps for free for symbian os? oh pls...
Posted by aksd
You find a lot of powerless apps for Symbian free, not as powerful as the freeware for WM which usually is more powerul than the paid ones.
To go back on topic, WM is planning to announce WM6.1 shortly, April 1 as it stands hope its not an April fools prank lol http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/[....]-mobile-61-coming-april.phtml.
Once WM6.1 is announced chances of us seeing a few reviews will become more likely.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/akshaydashrath/
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-26 04:31 ]
Posted by BobaFett
no offence, but the most important apps i use in nokia symbian fones and in my htc, are on the same way powerful and i find "almost" the same apps for both ( sym os and wm )
i am also very interested in wm 6.1, however i am very satisfied with wm6 on my trinity. saw the wm 6.1 roms made by several smart guys, lets see what the original will offer
Posted by aksd
none taken Boba
,
But a powerful app for you might not be so powerful for me
. I'm glad you enjoy best of both worlds but sometimes some people might prefer a bit more ease of programming and such. If every phone sutied every one what a boring world this would be .
Posted by mib1800
@aksd:
Do you know why Linux is a hit, no restrictions, imagine the outrage if MS closed down your entire OS, dont give me a "That is yet to be seen" answer because thats bullshit.
Are we talking about phone OS or some of your other bullsh*t?
The last I saw, symbian is still way in front in terms of device installed/sales.
If you are a programmer then WM is more to your liking as it is hacker friendly. But Symbian priority is to the manufacturers. The signing process is to ensure that no crap or virus software can get onto the device.
There are many freeware for WM but any one of these have the potential to brick your phone. That is a chilling feeling for any WM users looking for 3rd party software.
Symbian ensures that dont happen. It is not surprising that there is less problems with Symbian apps than WM apps.
BUT actually paying for restricted APIs and keeping APIs restricted wtf is that.
You dont have to pay to use the restricted API but you need to pay for the signing process to make your software certified. If you are a freeware developer you can always use the open signed method which is free (but slightly more cumbersome for people using your software)
Please read my above post, at accelerator side of things is hardware dependant.
I am saying even if the WM phone has the accelerator hardware, WM still cannot make use of it.
Posted by bavlondon2
Mib there is no need to use words like bullshit here. Grow up.
Posted by aksd
@mib
I thought we were talking about how WM is more comp like than Symbian
.
I dont care which manufacturer sells more, seirously if it affects your decision on buying a phone....I dont know what to say
You actually realized that WM is more inclined for a programmer now? Thats what I've been saying for the last few pages and you've been arguing with me about it
.
Signing is free if you dont use certain APIs, but some require paymnet.
If the hardware has acceleration WM supports it eg: Dell Axim x51, XDAFlame, iMate 6150/8150, SE X1. Please check your sources on this info as you're totally off the mark. Post this on xda-dev and I'm sure you'll get banned
.
@bavlondon
I think I used it first
. So i'd call it quits
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Akshay
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akshaydashrath/
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-26 10:39 ]
Posted by anonymuser
On 2008-03-26 09:31:46, mib1800 wrote:
There are many freeware for WM but any one of these have the potential to brick your phone. That is a chilling feeling for any WM users looking for 3rd party software.
Small but crucial point - that really isn't true. Yes, rogue WM software can cause problems, but if it's really so bad that you're unable to remove the software in the normal way (very unlikely), you can always do a hard reset to return to factory settings, no matter what. Most WM phones come with easy backup solutions to ensure you don't lose anything through the process, either.
Bad software cannot "brick" a WM phone, any more than it can a Symbian device - this is just more misinformation.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-03-26 11:34 ]
Posted by max_wedge
Agree. I've never bricked a PPC, and I try all sorts of free software.
On 2008-03-26 06:35:58, BobaFett wrote:
no offence, but the most important apps i use in nokia symbian fones and in my htc, are on the same way powerful and i find "almost" the same apps for both ( sym os and wm )
Well my experience does not bear this out. Most times I've looked for freeware for s60, that performs the functions I use via freeware on my WM devices, has not been successful. I repeatedly come up with paid options.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-03-26 12:41 ]
Posted by technical-expert
Does anyone know is this got on screen keyboard.
Posted by mib1800
@aksd:
You actually realized that WM is more inclined for a programmer now? Thats what I've been saying for the last few pages and you've been arguing with me about it
I have been saying this very early on. I am only disagreeing with your view that because of this factor WM is a more capable OS/platform than Symbian which is totally incorrect. If you do a function point count of both WM and Symbian API, it is WM that is playing catch-up.
@Boinng, max
what I meant by brick is the corruption or loss of data / configuration and the effort to bring the phone back to the state before the hang. (I am not saying it cause damage to the hardware
) So there is always the anxiety that the phone will die everytime you install any software (even freeware) in WM. This is the price you pay for "unprotected" OS. I have this same feeling on s60v2 but now with s60v3 I am not worried a bit.
Posted by Dogmann
@askd
Sorry but from your answers it is evident you really have very little idea of just how powerful or what is actually available for S60.
For instance it is now possible with an app whose name i have forgotten to use your S60 device as a WiFi access point using the devices 3G/HSDPA connection so that a WiFi device such as your Laptop can access the Internet when there is no WiFi available and the speed and bandwidth this offers is far superior to a Bluetooth connection. Or SymSMB 2.0 that gives phone to computer wireless access, computer to phone wireless access, file manager ( file explorer ) maybe you would like to read exactly how good this app is and all the other things it enables a user to achieve as it does so much more than just that
http://shop.my-symbian.com/Pl[....]3&catalog=20&topSectionId=5636
Now please could you explain what this actually means as it seems to just be a contradiction.
"If you say that Symbian phones are better at Multimdeia than WM phones, I will wholeheartadly agree with you but saying SYmbian is better than WM in multimedia is nonsense."
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-26 13:13 ]
Posted by anonymuser
@ marc - that kind of functionality is easily available via freeware and tweaks on WM, and yet costs $40 for S60 owners, and is the "only" app of its type - I think that supports a lot of what's being said here.
Posted by anonymuser
On 2008-03-26 14:01:47, mib1800 wrote:
@Boinng, max
what I meant by brick is the corruption or loss of data / configuration and the effort to bring the phone back to the state before the hang. (I am not saying it cause damage to the hardware
) So there is always the anxiety that the phone will die everytime you install any software (even freeware) in WM. No, there isn't - of course there isn't. Because as with any other computer, you exercise some basic care over what you install. You use basic common sense in selecting your software, just as you would for your PC or Mac at home - that doesn't mean being "anxious" about anything, just sensible.
Do you live in constant fear that anything you install on your computer might destroy it? Of course not, although there is always the possibility that badly written or malicious software could do damage, because the chances are you're running an open OS. The exact same principle applies to WM, because it's also open in the same way.
Here's a thought - why don't home computers run a locked down OS like Symbian, if that's so much safer? Why would you risk everything on your home or work PC, but be so much more protective over a simple phone with much more limited memory (and therefore less to lose)? Why aren't you queing up for an S60 laptop?
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-03-26 13:30 ]
Posted by aksd
@Marc,
I have mentioned that networking is not my strong point and I actually know very little about WiFi access points and the such as we dont have many in India, and networking is not the only factor that judges an OS's performance or power. I use bluetooth only because thats what i have available to me. I have no idea why in your eyes Wi-Fi access points on an OS = a more powerful OS, very strange logic in my opinion. And using the phone as a wifi access poit is availabe for WM as well if thats what you're implying.
Seems like you have trouble reading the eight points I posted. Techincally you seem to know very little on any OS technically speaking.
It may baffle you but hardware is different from software. A Dell Axim X51 PDa is no where less capable than an N95 in multimiedia capabilities that mean WM has the multimiedia power required but its not implememtned on most of the hardware. We ARE comapring OS and not induvidual phones as far as I've understood. If you have'nt implemented 3D acceleration on a WM phone how can YOU claim that Symbian has better multimedia capabilites. Therefore the Symbian device is superior not Symbian as an OS is superior.
@mib
The only reason its more programmer friendly is because its more powerful. Do not confuse powerful with more features, powerful from a programmers point of view. We have more to work iwth making it easier( in the form of APIs) and freedom to program(I'm getting tired of using this term)
. We'll we are on the same page at least regarding the programming bit
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-26 13:36 ]