Posted by Raiderski
... and currently impossible to implement in k800
Posted by jomateixa
On 2008-02-07 12:37:08, Raiderski wrote:
... and currently impossible to implement in k800
But why seq_ss is so hermetic? The reason is known?
Posted by Raiderski
dunno why. i'm quite surprised. maybe they are in some kind of (pre)caption mode
Posted by brazuka
@ SonarikK510
About shutter speed us really sure that the function is working this is if the sensor that responds to the stimuli of the functions and properties both for slow shutter shutter [03] as shutter speed [04] if the photographs with photos with objects moving this resulting in something with these functions, there really changes speed or with objects in the sensor already pre-setting the shutter to shot independent of stimuli made by properties slow shutter speed shutter.
Will be that the shoot is not included in the function ISO and EXPOSURE?
Another thing, the shooting for the video movie or video film is different from shooting photos of how to separate this? Because we know that the higher the speed of the diaphragm shutter better because the video does not lose many paintings "frames" and objects not lost in moves or moving scenes as scenes for sports or scenes with high speed, scenes radicals like as xtreme sports well...
I did a test with a sensor in a camera phone with an object in motion and not just the sensor detected the object in motion as took the photo, as if the object were not there, a ghost object the sensor deleted the object in motion, was stimulated with the properties and slow shutter speed shutter and the sensor did not respond.
Then the property depends on the shutter of the camera sensor and hardware because the sensor is bad for the functions shutter / iso / aperture will not work or I may be wrong maybe wrote bullshit
Posted by brazuka
EXIF Viewer
See all parameters the picture was taken :
Perhaps help this programs, program analyzes the photo:
TTNView
Download:
http://www.amarra.de/exif_uk.htm
or
http://www.4shared.com/file/3[....]67/Exif-Viewer_250E_Setup.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/37267740/24ae048b/ttnview.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/37699628/84f3e3fc/exifread.html
[ This Message was edited by: brazuka on 2008-02-13 15:36 ]
Posted by number1
i like jpegsnoop it also display information on compression
http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/jpeg-snoop.html
Posted by LaurensB
Hey guys,
Think we can implement anything like this (http://digital-photography-school.com/blog/slow-sync-flash/) in the K800i? Looking at it, it's nothing more than a long exposure time (we have the shutter speed command for Flash!) while flash fires.
I tried something myself but I failed miserable
Posted by Raiderski
LaurensB, nice to see good ideas
believe or not but i have this already in my driver. it's based on manual shutter speed selection (zoom keys) and here is small example, maybe not the best but i have no free time (and opportunity) to make something more "spectacular"
exposure time is 0.75s (can go up to 2s as normal manual shutter speed without flash)
Posted by pietropizzi
Did you sync to the flash to the start or the end of the exposure time ?
And - Are you able to change the sync ?
Posted by Raiderski
pic was with front sync but front/rear sync can be changed with cmd5a bits
Posted by LaurensB
On 2008-02-08 17:51:48, Raiderski wrote:
LaurensB, nice to see good ideas
believe or not but i have this already in my driver. it's based on manual shutter speed selection (zoom keys) and here is small example, maybe not the best but i have no free time (and opportunity) to make something more "spectacular"
exposure time is 0.75s (can go up to 2s as normal manual shutter speed without flash)
Already done some nice try's with Genus old driver :
http://my.opera.com/LaurensB/blog/2007/12/20/long-exposure-shots
But I am looking forward to your version, BTW is 2 seconds the limit? I thought the W810i could go up to 8/30 seconds!
Edit :
It isn't exactly the same as told about on that website but I'm sure I will be able to give some examples about what I mean with a super cam driver that supports shutter speed:P
Basically the only thing we would need for this is control of the flash sync (flash shoots at the start of the shot or at the end) and the exposure time during flash
I don't know if the first is possible but I am quite sure the second on is!
Looking forward to more development
I am sure we can do some impressive stuff with this [ This Message was edited by: LaurensB on 2008-02-08 17:28 ]
Posted by Raiderski
yes, 2sec is the official limit for 2mp/3mp. shutter speed mechanism seems to be identical like in k750/w8x0. they were able to do ~7sec exposure in extreme conditions but this was max. EXIF still was saying 2sec and that's because of slow shutter speed which also has big influence on exposure time
_________________
K800 R1KG001 (camdriver 6.1)
raider.4shared.com
flickr.com/photos/raiderek
[ This Message was edited by: Raiderski on 2008-02-08 17:41 ]
Posted by LaurensB
Awesome
That's really good to know
Btw : quick question, can we disable the auto-noise reduction? It can make pictures very ugly, a good example would be this :
http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=k800earlyphoto2ms.jpg
The K750i usually has more detail in the pictures (at a lower resolution) I haven't been able to figure out if it's because the compression, sharpness filter or noise reduction but my guess is the later one. I don't have a K750i at hand to prove my point.
Thanks for all the great work!
Posted by Raiderski
bugs in EXIF exposure time (left is EXIF, right is real value)
4/3 - 3/4
3/4 - 4/3
3/5 - 5/3
LaurensB
as far as i know K800 don't have noise reduction methods. this rather depends on sharpness, ISO, compression, colors saturation... separately or all at once
one more thing to note is bilinear filtering used for pixel interpolation in zoom. default state is always enabled but disabled can improve sharpness on x1.0 pictures. unfortunately i can't find register (cmd5b from k750 doesn't work)
Posted by jomateixa
Yes there's no noise reduction like others are claiming. A white balance filter is not a noise reduction filter. JPEG compression isn't either.
Posted by Raiderski
seq_set_prop_9_6
what for? any ideas?
Posted by jomateixa
On 2008-02-09 13:32:10, Raiderski wrote:
seq_set_prop_9_6
what for? any ideas?
Raider I think it's for the focus algorithm, when in Doc mode it takes only the center of the screen for the focus, and in other modes takes an average of every points on the screen (AF windows)
[ This Message was edited by: jomateixa on 2008-02-09 12:54 ]
Posted by Raiderski
i did small test with it. with 6sec delay in seq_set_prop_9_6 code i didn't met any delays during scene & focus changes. this subproperty seems to be unused
_________________
K800 R1KG001 (camdriver 6.1)
raider.4shared.com
flickr.com/photos/raiderek
[ This Message was edited by: Raiderski on 2008-02-09 13:13 ]
Posted by jomateixa
On 2008-02-09 14:08:00, Raiderski wrote:
i did small test with it. with 6sec delay in seq_set_prop_9_6 code i didn't met any delays during scene & focus changes. this subproperty seems to be unused
_________________
K800 R1KG001 (camdriver 6.1)
raider.4shared.com
flickr.com/photos/raiderek
[ This Message was edited by: Raiderski on 2008-02-09 13:13 ]
Maybe is used when in spot metering? I'm just wondering... You tested the delay when in Macro mode too? Maybe multiple AF windows are used not in normal mode
[ This Message was edited by: jomateixa on 2008-02-09 13:31 ]
Posted by number1
seq_set_prop_9_6, it holds two focus commands
#SET_REG(32,04)<<<< used by protrait scenes Use multiple AF windows, normal. focuses the whole picture but only has limted range.
#SET_REG(32,05)<<<<< used by document scene only, // Use multiple AF windows, full range. uses the full power of the autofocus system.
#READ_REG(32,$r2 0 0) // Check what reg 32 contains
$b0 00 1 7 // Mask out LSB bit
$c0 00
i guess all that just tells the autofocus what to select.
Posted by Raiderski
seq_set_prop_9_6 isn't used at all no matter of scene, focus, light metering etc. this could be used in testing procedures during development
Posted by nik.ditsov
Raider, I can see you are already using your 6.1 version for K800!
Do you plan to release it soon?
Posted by Raiderski
yes, of course but i don't know when. i'm still fighting with problems:
high priority, must be fixed:
- very slow change between draft (we can apply EM here) and half release (must be enabled to take snapshot) modes in seq_ss_X
- AE lock doesn't work on infinity focus
low priority:
- AF macro range only scan doesn't exist. macro mode (full range) scan is veeery slow
- bilinear filtering (zoom) cannot be disabled. disabled can improve sharpness of x1.0 pictures
_________________
K800 R1KG001 (camdriver 6.1)
raider.4shared.com
flickr.com/photos/raiderek
[ This Message was edited by: Raiderski on 2008-02-09 14:58 ]
Posted by number1
- AF macro range only scan doesn't exist. macro mode (full range) scan is veeery slow
- bilinear filtering (zoom) cannot be disabled. disabled can improve sharpness of x1.0 pictures
i don't understand what is af macro range only scan, k800i just has 4 differeny focus types.
are you saying the bilinear filtering is on all the time, even when theres no zoom???.
Posted by Raiderski
i don't understand what is af macro range only scan, k800i just has 4 differeny focus types.
in k750 driver were used only 2 values - normal range (no macro mode) and full range (macro mode) but there was also other: fast normal, fast full, macro only. if we have normal and full (normal+macro) then i still believe that macro only is available too
are you saying the bilinear filtering is on all the time, even when theres no zoom???.
yes, this was in k750 and i don't expect different situation in k800. don't ask me what for bilinear filtering for x1.0 pictures
Posted by number1
k800i just doesn't have fast macro or anything it has different focus settings the k750i,
the bilinear filter should be abled to be turned off there must be a command for it like in the k750i.
Posted by Raiderski
k800i just doesn't have fast macro...
and you know this from... ?
Posted by number1
k800i just has 4 focus settings
#SET_REG(32,00) normal
#SET_REG(32,01) macro
#SET_REG(32,04) multiple AF windows, normal
#SET_REG(32,05)multiple AF windows, full range
i'm pretty sure thats it unless #SET_REG(32,03) might be something or maybe #SET_REG(32,06).
Posted by Raiderski
only because you can see 4 values (reg can have 255) in driver? if i don't see manual shutter speed in driver's code does this mean that it doesn't exist? in my opinion macro only range is somewhere but this isn't as obvious as other ranges. i prefer to use "hidden somewhere" than "doesn't exist"
Posted by number1
i also want the bilinear filter off, how would be the best way to test for the command which controls the bilinear filter.
Posted by Raiderski
in k750 this was cmd5B (0 = enabled, 1 = disabled) but this doesn't work on k800. it's hard to search proper command and value simply because of some commands which co-work with registers (this from my reg table at 4shared account). in this case good testing & searching procedures are priceless... and of course a lot of luck
Posted by Raiderski
OMG i just realized how poor is autofocus in K800. W800 can entirely kick his balls in every aspect of work
Posted by jomateixa
On 2008-02-12 14:45:58, Raiderski wrote:
OMG i just realized how poor is autofocus in K800. W800 can entirely kick his balls in every aspect of work
Can you explain that a little more?
Posted by number1
i thought the k800 autofocus was a bit poor comparad to my k750i, also this was found in the k770
http://www.4shared.com/file/37570218/ec7b9ba6/cam_fw_upgrade.html
have a look at it, it's very odd some kind of half camdriver
Posted by number1
@raiderski, have you managed to turn off the k800i's bilinear filter????
Posted by Raiderski
not yet, i hadn't enough free time
Posted by number1
the Bilinear filter has got to go i researched it today
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Bilinear_Filtering
if you look at photos taken with the k800 Bilinear Filter on then look at pics taken with the k770i & t650 Bilinear Filter off, you can clearly the affect.
Posted by sadeghi85
no i don't agree with you number1
from that pic showed in k770 vs k810i thread it is obvious that sharpness is high.
bilinear filter is actually a low pass filter, and from that webpage you found you can see aliasing effect in "3x Scale Point filter" image and antialiasing effect(low pass filter) in "3x Scale Bilinear filter", and sharpness is actually high pass filter! low pass and high pass filter in the same time?!!
so i can conclude that that isn't bilinear effect on K800i.
and still i can't understand how bilinear filter will work when there is no resizing
see this page:
http://www.dca.fee.unicamp.br/dipcourse/html-dip/c6/s6/front-page.html
Posted by jomateixa
Damn...the low pass filter interpretation of the interpolation is purely a mathematical point of view, our K800 is not doing fourier transforms. You can't think on interpolation only as a low pass filter, but as a low pass filtered spectrum of an expanded DFT. In practice, interpolation is a geometrical problem in what we calculate average distances/colours.
[ This Message was edited by: jomateixa on 2008-02-14 17:15 ]
Posted by sadeghi85
Ok, our K800 is not doing fourier transforms, but bilinear filtering is a low pass filter that works in spatial domain with the method called "convolution". it's actually a weighted matrix, sliding as a 'window' on the image(that can be considered as another matrix). on that webpage i provided you can see that weighted matrix(bilinear kernel).
read Digital Image Processing by Rafael Gonzalez chapter 3.
Posted by number1
read page 5 of this thread last 2 posts i also couldn't believe the bilinear filter was still on even for pics where zoom isn't used. same for the k750i the bilinear filter was running all the time.
Posted by jomateixa
On 2008-02-14 18:30:42, sadeghi85 wrote:
Ok, our K800 is not doing fourier transforms, but bilinear filtering is a low pass filter that works in spatial domain with the method called "convolution". it's actually a weighted matrix, sliding as a 'window' on the image(that can be considered as another matrix). on that webpage i provided you can see that weighted matrix(bilinear kernel).
read Digital Image Processing by Rafael Gonzalez chapter 3.
Sorry, but it's you who has to read, I made more matrixes, tensors, transforms and convolutions than you can imagine. Forget the book, that interpretation is not useful for discusing here. Read the wiki, bilinear interpolation is so simple as it seem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_interpolation
Posted by sadeghi85
I'm sorry if i offended you. my biggest problem is to say something in general. when i say about "convolution" that doesn't mean i think you don't know about it. again sorry.
see this pic that is showed on this page. that's about K770 VS K800 pic quality. number1 said low quality of K800 is because of bilinear filtering that is on all the time even when zoom isn't being used.
now about bilinear interpolation: this is for when we haven't enough data i.e for enlargement. now my question is how bilinear filter will act when there is no zoom?
for zoom, expanding image:
now to filling gaps, we should convolve the image with bilinear kernel
result
formula is(from that book)
that is similar to what i found on that page you provided
this is actually low pass filter, although our K800 is not doing fourier transforms.
i didn't say that there is no bilinear filter or something alike. i say the reason that K800 pic has lower quality than K770 pic is sharpness and whitebalance not biliner filter effect. and i repeat my question, if there is no zoom, there is no unknown point, so how bilinear filter will affect the image?
Posted by Raiderski
no need for theories
if there is no zoom, there is no unknown point, so how bilinear filter will affect the image?
you can imagine that is this way (quick example from GIMP) - load picture and resize it from 2048x to 2047x. effect will be interesting. of course this effect in k750 worked in much smaller scale - disabled filtering 'increased' sharpness of high contrast edges (trees etc.). no matter of effect in k800 it's worth to try
Posted by sadeghi85
Sorry couldn't understand
, please explain more.
Posted by jomateixa
I have to say something, If a picture is taken with a given size, and saved exactly with the same size, the interpolation has no theoretical or mathematical or practical sense. It has no effect, as sadeghi said.
The question, sadeghi, is why don't you believe in yourself, no matter what number1 or others say,
Sorry for the previous post but I don't like the idea of the low pass filter, for me that's incorrect, I don't like that term for interpolation
Posted by sadeghi85
so you mean, this isn't important to turning bilinear filter off? i asked that question not just because number1 said it but also Raiderski, so i thought it has some effects on image.
if bilinear filtering is on all the time, and we see it as a low pass filter(without enlargement)(sorry jomateixa
) then Raiderski is right, disabling this filter can improve sharpness of x1.0 pictures.
Posted by Raiderski
i have some free time without camdrv code. i hope that some of you are going much deeper into modding than just simple code changes. question for today seems to be very easy but it's not, here it is:
we have a lot of registers which are configured with #SET_REG macro. we know what exactly is under some of those registers, we even know values which we should use for them. unfortunately destination of the rest is unknown - we don't know nothing about them. at least would be nice to have opportunity to look into them and to read values from them. this can be small step to understand meaning of some of these registers. i don't have to write that every new discovered register is major step in right direction
we can easily read value from register with #READ_REG macro, for example: #READ_REG(10,$r2 5 5). so, value is in reg5, next step is to show this value. from now problem begins... what can we do with this value to be able to show it?
very easy solution is when we only want to check this situations:
- is value N? set very low contrast
- is value different than N? set very high contrast
yeah, but what with values from range 0 to 255? we cannot display value on viewfinder (just dreaming
). not much solutions left... put it somehow into file to be able to see it in any EXIF reading tool? dunno
maybe some of you work out solution for this crappy situation. for me it's deadlock for potentially new features
cheers
_________________
K800 R1KG001 (camdriver 6.1)
raider.4shared.com
flickr.com/photos/raiderek
[ This Message was edited by: Raiderski on 2008-02-29 00:08 ]
Posted by number1
On 2008-02-29 01:06:05, Raiderski wrote:
i have some free time without camdrv code. i hope that some of you are going much deeper into modding than just simple code changes. question for today seems to be very easy but it's not, here it is:
we have a lot of registers which are configured with #SET_REG macro. we know what exactly is under some of those registers, we even know values which we should use for them. unfortunately destination of the rest is unknown - we don't know nothing about them. at least would be nice to have opportunity to look into them and to read values from them. this can be small step to understand meaning of some of these registers. i don't have to write that every new discovered register is major step in right direction
we can easily read value from register with #READ_REG macro, for example: #READ_REG(10,$r2 5 5). so, value is in reg5, next step is to show this value. from now problem begins... what can we do with this value to be able to show it?
very easy solution is when we only want to check this situations:
- is value N? set very low contrast
- is value different than N? set very high contrast
yeah, but what with values from range 0 to 255? we cannot display value on viewfinder (just dreaming
). not much solutions left... put it somehow into file to be able to see it in any EXIF reading tool? dunno
maybe some of you work out solution for this crappy situation. for me it's deadlock for potentially new features
cheers
_________________
K800 R1KG001 (camdriver 6.1)
raider.4shared.com
flickr.com/photos/raiderek
[ This Message was edited by: Raiderski on 2008-02-29 00:08 ]
i hope that some of you are going much deeper into modding than just simple code changes
it doesn't look like it lol i think your on your own, i did make a advance compression system & recode most of camdriver1.dat for the vga front cam.
what your are saying is you want to know what every #SET_REG command is by using #READ_REG to read it somewhere??? and you don't know how & where #READ_REG will read it???, sorry but it's kind of confusing what you said but i'd like to help.
Posted by Raiderski
i hope that some of you are going much deeper into modding than just simple code changes
it doesn't look like it lol
and that's why 3MP modding have no chances to evolve at very high level of old 2MP modding. there will be no chengrong2...
i did make a advance compression system
oh come one! you didn't created anything new! you did nothing more than increased file size rules and decreased compression level - it's not 'advanced'! by the way... your simple changes in compression are based on my prototype code template. sorry number1 but you aren't so 'big star' as you want to be
what your are saying is...
i wrote that as simple as possible, nevermind, forget about this
in one thing i must agree with you: i'm on my own, that's why all my work will stay my own only. it's time to close chapter 'do something for others' - it's useless