Can mobiles cause cancer?

Posted by tk338
Im sorry if this has been asked before, but I searched and couldnt find anything, but anyway if it has it would be interesting to hear the latest views on the matter... can mobiles cause cancer?... someone reassure me, no, please???

EDIT: And does SAR have anything to do with it?

[ This Message was edited by: tk338 on 2007-11-19 22:11 ]

Posted by Twometre
Well I may not be sure but I think that when you keep your mobile in a leather porch at most and having it attatched to your skin its highly possible that you may develope skin cancer. Correct me if Iam wrong.

Posted by tk338
What about when ur on the phone... me and my girlfriend spend about an hour a night!

Posted by MWEB
http://medicalphysicsweb.org/cws/article/opinion/25991
read that.

Posted by NightBlade
Scientists have concluded that mobiles cause absolutely no harm to the human body in short-term use (10 years), as mobiles haven't been aound for so long.
But seriously, radio waves don't have the needed frequency to ionize the compounds of the amino acids in our cells in order to cause mutation.

[ This Message was edited by: NightBlade on 2007-11-20 22:50 ]

Posted by gola
last time i read,scientists were/are unable to prove that cellphones cause harm to humans...but my ear usually becomes numb after about +-45mins on a phonecall

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[ This Message was edited by: gola on 2007-11-20 19:53 ]

Posted by haynesycop
Who cares we'll all die anyway, could be tomorrow could be 60 years from now, who knows! It ain't going to stop people from using them.

Posted by rachizzle

On 2007-11-20 23:46:04, haynesycop wrote:
Who cares we'll all die anyway, could be tomorrow could be 60 years from now, who knows! It ain't going to stop people from using them.

amen to that =P
lol

Posted by kyjely
mobiles are such a big part of peoples lives now that i doubt anyone cares if they get cancer or not?i think chemotherapy treatment should be covered in standard mobile phone insurance plans just as a precaution. lol

Posted by himlims_nl
don't think calling your GF every day for a hour will kill you by cancer

however if you start calling other girls your GF might kill you, but yet again... cause of death is not cancer

i'm aware there are people who got ill and disy after UMTS/G3 antenna's have been placed near their houses... but does not effect everyone.

Posted by fatreg

On 2007-11-20 23:46:04, haynesycop wrote:
Who cares we'll all die anyway, could be tomorrow could be 60 years from now, who knows! It ain't going to stop people from using them.

it'd keep you in a job if we all drop dead! hehe

and no, no threats or warnings will ever stop me using my phone, unless some new gadgetry comes out.

Posted by Esiaka
No.Phone manufacturers adhere to international consumer safety requirements for their products.The SAR is a tip base to enhencing consumer safety.Pls refer to your phone manual for more information.Only a few scientist hold the idea of your assumption.

This message was posted from a K310i

Posted by *Jojo*
There has been rumor going around in the mid-90's that mobile handsets which does NOT have an EXTERNAL-antenna causes CANCER, specially if the fone is used in a loooong perioed of time

BAD news is that . . . almost ALL of the handsets bein' SOLD out in the market today have NO - external-antennas

Posted by SAFEcelluser
All i can say here people is you have to do your due diligence when it comes to doing research on cell phone safety. Please read below what i have to say below.

If you choose to disregard this then i would say you are a fool. I am a teacher but if you want to know the expert just ask Dr George Decarlo. He was hired in the early 1970's by Motorola to do their research for them. After he showed that cell phones where unsafe they fired him and kept all of his research. Go to www.youtube.com and punch in the name George Decarlo and you can see all his videos there.

Too much of the Science is now showing that people who use cell phones have a 4-5 times greater risk of getting a brain tumor than non phone users. Mobile phone radiation penetrates into the brain and cause breakages to the Genetic material or DNA code material. If you are a moderate to heavy mobile phone you owe it to yourself, family, friends and loved ones to look at the problem of electromagnetic pollution, the solution and the validation.

INTRO FLASH VIDEO
http://www.mybiopro.com/Product_Overview.aspx?ID=MRETprotects

DR FISHER'S AUDIO TALK "The dangers associated with electromagnetic pollution"
http://www.mybiopro.com/The_Problem.aspx?ID=mretprotects

People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care
Omer Reid

Posted by Seanyb2
Well i have been using mobiles since the early Vodafone analogue service and never had problems up until recently. I have in the past 6 months developed severe migraines and i talk for upto 2 hours sometimes to a friend of mine. One day after finishing a 3 hour call i hung up and my head suddenly started spinning around and i lost my balance really badly. It stopped after 2 mins but it was scary and i am sure it was to do with my phone. I have cut down my long calls now but i cant do without my mobile. But there are other electrical things around us every day enmiting radiation we just dont have them pressed upto our heads. Where i live there is over 10 masts too but i think there hidden. Who knows for sure but im not that worried. If i heard tomorrow that they do cause cancer i wont stop cos i probably been using them that long now its too late.

This message was posted from a 6300

Posted by *Jojo*
@safe - NICE username . . . is that REAL? Brain Tumor . . . maybe that's the MAIN-reason why I've been feeling and acting sooooooo STRANGE lately

as I normally call people in my handset lasting for about an hour or TWO at the most . . . I guess I have to start learnin' how to USE the Morse Code

. . .

Posted by fatreg
so radio signals, microwaves, wifi networks, walkie talkies, hospital equipment all uses radio signals, are they going to give me a brain tumour aswell?

didn't think so..

there has been no evidence whatsoever to show that a mobile phone can cause cancer over a 10 year period.

I myself don't see what all the hoo har is about, a mobile typically runs on a 1800MHz network, this network is no different to your local radio network that runs at 100MHz.

imo, it's all proper scare mongering.

Posted by strecker
come on: only ask your grand/parents what US state health officials with links to the WHO had to say about smoking! '20-25 a day are ok'... That's what.
And if you think those where the stone ages of science and corruption, well...then buy your kids a gun for xmas, cause guns don't kill - people do, and kids aren't people by most law...corporations are though!
Ask the marlboro man...

Posted by Seanyb2
I actually think that those people who allegely get affected by masts are either alot more sensitive to radio waves than most other people or they are just looking for something to blame or moan about. If someone develop cancer who lives near a mast who can prove it was the mast. I aint giving up my phone weather it kills me or not.

This message was posted from a 6300

Posted by tk338
Thank you all for your constructive replies, it seems most of you think it wont cause any effects and coincedentally (is that spelt right?!?) I saw in the paper, I think it was yesterday, that 4 in 10 people have the genes to prevent cancer, or something like that. I mean I know theyre always talking about cancer, and if we were to obey as they said we'd have to be living in the arctic in a UV resistant room eating just fruit, veg and meat. But I dont know... thank you again all for your replies, more are welcome =D

Posted by Twometre

Anything when used in exessivenes can be highly dangerous to the human body. Even our daily balanced diets must be correctly proportion not in exess. Then how much more with electronic devices.
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[ This Message was edited by: comfort mdu on 2007-11-28 01:58 ]

Posted by NightBlade
As I said, mobiles do NOT emit radiation, but simple moderate-frequesncy radio waves. They're even weaker than Wifi. The photons of these radio waves do not contain the necessary amount of energy in order to ionize particles, and thus are extremely unlikely to cause mutation. That's how I see it, at least.

Posted by humphreybc
"Can mobiles cause cancer?"

Yes, every person who owns a phone is going to drop dead tomorrow...

Posted by tk338
So what if my GF has been getting headaches lately, we spend a lot of time on the phone, she seems quite worried but has only had them for 2 days... a sharp pain in her head, I said leave it for a week before we do anything eg... go and see a doctor...

Posted by Lunion

On 2007-12-27 22:13:23, tk338 wrote:
So what if my GF has been getting headaches lately, we spend a lot of time on the phone, she seems quite worried but has only had them for 2 days... a sharp pain in her head, I said leave it for a week before we do anything eg... go and see a doctor...

I don't think this is the place for medical advice!

Personally i don't think phones cause any harm whatsoever, and for the on the phone all the time, can't you use MSN or something and have a webcam chat?!

Posted by zirkie101
Who's seen the movie "Thank you for smoking"? Kinda makes one think, aint it?

Posted by max_wedge

On 2007-11-27 18:14:17, NightBlade wrote:
As I said, mobiles do NOT emit radiation, but simple moderate-frequesncy radio waves. They're even weaker than Wifi. The photons of these radio waves do not contain the necessary amount of energy in order to ionize particles, and thus are extremely unlikely to cause mutation. That's how I see it, at least.

actually that is not correct. There have been several studies that show cell phones heat living cell tissue, and that after an hour exposire the cells start to fail to reproduce correctly as a result of overheating. Once the source (the cell phone) is removed, the cells return to the normal function. Any damaged cells die and are flushed out. What is not clear from this experiment, is whether a sustained exposure of over an hour a day for years on end could lead to such poor cell division that tumours form.

Also, many people in many studies have reported a "hot" or "numb" feeling in their heads on the same side as the cell phone after more than half an hours use.

The way I look at it, if you brain cells are being heated to the point of numbness, I would consider it prudent to limit phone calls as often as possible to less than half an hour.

Seems common sense to me. Obviously it doesn't cause cancer very often, but if even a small percentage of tumours are related to cell heating, then you are playing russian roulette by using a mobile phone for extended periods.

Keep in mind also that a couple of studies show a higher percentage of tumours on the side of the brain that the study participants had used their mobile the most ie: that in the survey group, of people who had developed brain tumours a higher proportion occured on the same side of the head as mobile phone use. This statistic contravenes what one would expect if tumour formation was never affected by mobile phone use.

So it's quote untrue to say their is no evidence of links between brain tumour and cell phone use.

Of course I'm not going to stop using my cell phone, but I do limit calls to a few minutes unless I am using a headset. Personally I have noticed the "numb" feeling myself after more than half an hour use, and this numb feeling does not occur when I use a headset. That's enough evidence for me

Posted by NightBlade
Thanks, maxwedge. Nice post!
But you only confirmed what I said - it's very very unlikely to cause harm to one's health.
Well, anyway, I don't care, because I use my cell phone 3-4 times a day for max. 3 minutes a call.

Yeah, that's right, I use the MP3 and camera functions much more frequently than the actual 'phone' function!

Posted by max_wedge
hehe! Sorry mate, I just had to disagree with you from a purely factual basis, but I agree there is not much cause for alarm.

Posted by arvinlad
Are the studies carried out with controls...

ie - if you sat chatting away for an hour with a piece of wood held to the side of your head - would it not be the case that your head and ear would get flushed and warm due to:

1) being covered
2) being continually knocked by the object
3) being in proximity to a warm hand

Just my tuppence worth

Another thing is that just because the skin on the outside of your skull get warm/ numb (probably due to the 3 items listed above

) it doesn't mean that anything is happening inside (take that comment how you want

)

Anyway... why speak on the phone for an hour?

- go round and see the girl - give her a kiss for goodness sake

- no more than that mind... 'till you're married!

Posted by max_wedge
they were serious studies and using control groups is standard practice so I don't see why not.

In the cell tissue culture experiments, they actually bombarded cell cultures in the laboratory with mobile phone radiation, not people's heads, so they had full experimental control of the environment.

You can take it for fact that Cell phone radiation heats livings cells, this is not something that there is scientific disagreement upon. What's under disagreement, is whether that kind of heating will lead to tumours or not, and if so at what levels of exposure.

Posted by carkitter
Brain Tumours/Cancers are relatively rare considering the widespread use of mobile phones. However Lung cancer, Skin cancer, and Bowel cancers are very common due to exposure to Cigarette smoke, direct sunlight and certain foods all of which WE choose to expose ourselves to.

Cancer in the majority of cases is a result of lifestyle chioces, brought about by Western life expectancy in the 20th century doubling from 33 to 70 yrs.

Posted by Miss UK
My N80 gives me headaches if using it to call for ages,
however Wi-Fi is a bigger headache most times,

do those cause cancer?

Posted by max_wedge

On 2007-12-30 23:32:27, carkitter wrote:
Brain Tumours/Cancers are relatively rare considering the widespread use of mobile phones. However Lung cancer, Skin cancer, and Bowel cancers are very common due to exposure to Cigarette smoke, direct sunlight and certain foods all of which WE choose to expose ourselves to.

Cancer in the majority of cases is a result of lifestyle chioces, brought about by Western life expectancy in the 20th century doubling from 33 to 70 yrs.

that's the bottom line. I think that it's possible in rare cases for tumours to form in response to excesive mobile phone use, but you'd have to be pretty unlucky. Nuch better chances are you'd get something from passive smoking

However I still reckon it's prident to avoid that "numb" feeling, especially if you get headaches as well from using the phone. You may not get tumours, but there is evidence of other affects for example concentration and ability to think clearly have been shown to be affected by such brain cell heating affects, as well as general mood swings.

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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-01-02 08:17 ]

Posted by carkitter

On 2007-12-31 02:46:46, Miss UK wrote:
My N80 gives me headaches if using it to call for ages,...

This could be because of long priods of concentration, Volume levels being too low or high for comfort, Perhaps too much treble in the speaker earpiece? None of these causes are carcinogenic however.

On 2007-12-31 02:46:46, Miss UK wrote:
however Wi-Fi is a bigger headache most times,...

Do you mean that literally or metaphorically?

Posted by max_wedge

On 2008-01-04 23:24:28, carkitter wrote:

On 2007-12-31 02:46:46, Miss UK wrote:
My N80 gives me headaches if using it to call for ages,...

This could be because of long priods of concentration, Volume levels being too low or high for comfort, Perhaps too much treble in the speaker earpiece? None of these causes are carcinogenic however.

It is proven through studies that eliminate other factors (such as volume levels, phone pressure against the ear etc) that many people DO get headaches and or a numb sensation after using the phone for half an hour or more. Other factors such as dizziness, fatigue etc are also reported.

http://omega.twoday.net/stories/296447/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/314363.stm
"I do not see that mobile phones used normally pose a health problem, but some people are using them for 20-30 minutes or more at time, and there is overwhelming scientific evidence that there is a hazard to health from that kind of use. "

Also, there is evidence of connection between brain tumours and mobile phone use. No hard proof, but evidence nonetheless that deserves more study:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne[....]ews/2007/10/08/nmobiles108.xml

http://www.epidem.com/pt/re/e[....]c!1390229169!181195629!8091!-1

And also there has long been strong evidence that emr affects can cause health problems and physiological effects to humans (and is proven in laboratry animals such as mice):
http://www.electrosmog.com.au/otherarticles.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/health/thepulse/s1285335.htm

Essentially, it seems that if their is a risk of tumour, it is quite low. Other health affects are more common, such as numbness and dizziness, but whether these lead to tumours is unknown.

Posted by carkitter
I've read though all your links, I remain unconvinced that there are any serious ill effects.

The Saudi link was least scientific of the lot. Providing a questionaire to people on this subject simply collects data on peoples fears and apprehensions.

Posted by max_wedge
fair enough

But I'm still not using a mobile phone for more than half an hour without a headset.

For a few weeks I had a very mild toothache, and everytime I used a phone without the headset for more than 15-20 minutes, the nerve started to really hurt, and I mean to the point I was writhing in agony. I just had to stop using the phone until I worked out it didn't happen if I used the headset. I tried this about 5-6 times before giving up trying to use it without the headset.

As soon as I stopped using the phone, or plugged the headset in, the pain went away.

That's enough evidence for me that emr affects from mobiles phones can have health affects

Posted by d3nja
Those links really arn't good sources of information. Newspapers are great at sensationalist reports but very bad at reporting actual hard science. If you want to find out more about this issue then google scholar is the best tool I can advise since it will get you peer reviewed journals (or abstracts at least).

This abstract from a review of current literature sums up much of the evidence:

http://www.ingentaconnect.com[....]005/00000081/00000003/art00001

Posted by max_wedge
It has been showing that thermal affects cause numbness, dizziness, headaches and other affects when used for more than 20-30 minutes at a stretch. This is proven. The extract you linked to only says that there is no evidence that non-thermal affects cause cancer. Non thermal affects include emissions from base stations and emissions from handsets at a foot or more distance.

Thermal affects however include holding the phone within inches of your head, or standing within a foot of a base station. Thermal affects from close range radio emissions have been shown to induce problems with cell replication in tissue cultures at these proximities over periods of 30-60 minutes. This is a fact and not news paper sensationalism.

Cell replication problems over time = tumours. Because the human body is very good at repairing itself, it may be that substantial exposure over extended periods of time is needed before tumours will form. This would explain why the evidence (which does exist) only shows a weak link and not a substantial one.

This would also mean that it's possible to get a cancer from mobile phone use, but also very unlikely for all but the most excessive users.

Posted by carkitter
@max

Aha, that's precisly the point!
Non-thermal effects cannot be proven to cause cancer.
Thermal effects are where heat causes a change in the behaviour of the cells. Mobile phones, especially the digital devices which are common for quite some time now have not been proven to cause thermal effects.

Sunburn is a thermal effect, caused by radiation from the sun. The result can become skin cancer. No-one gets skin cancer from a cell phone.

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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-09 13:36 ]

Posted by d3nja
Carkitter is right. No destructive thermal effect has been demonstrated using mobile phone frequencies and intensities (usually the temp increase is around 0.01 degrees celsius) . Most reasearch points to non thermal effects as the cause of damage. This includes the non themral and chronic activation of heat shock protein pathways which some hypothesis could cause cancer under certain circumstances: Long frequent exposure (in the extreme). This is still a hypothesis, not fact, and research is still being carried out. If any more information is required then a google scholar search for 'mobile phone thermal effects' will bring up a list of abstracts (which are full summaries of the paper btw).

As a side note. The last I read about mobile phones causing nausea was related to the workings of the ear and effects of loud volume for long periods of time.

[ This Message was edited by: d3nja on 2008-01-09 14:46 ]

Posted by max_wedge

On 2008-01-08 22:32:20, carkitter wrote:
@max

Aha, that's precisly the point!
Non-thermal effects cannot be proven to cause cancer.
Thermal effects are where heat causes a change in the behaviour of the cells. Mobile phones, especially the digital devices which are common for quite some time now have not been proven to cause thermal effects.

Sunburn is a thermal effect, caused by radiation from the sun. The result can become skin cancer. No-one gets skin cancer from a cell phone.

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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-09 13:36 ]

Cell phones have been proven to cause thermal heating of human cell tissues, and also replication faults after periods of half an hour or more. Frustratingly I can't find that particular research, but I have read it before, I'm certainly not making it up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11206998?dopt=Abstract

Also the evidence of headaches, nausea and other affects is also well documented

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12445512?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9441959?dopt=Abstract

http://electricwords.emfacts.com/ch142393.html

http://electricwords.emfacts.com/index-Head.html

The fact is, there is lot's of research to suggest health implications related to the use of mobile phones. Just because there is no "proof" as yet of doesn't mean it's not happening.

Personally I believe the risk of getting a tumour from mobile phone use is very slim. However other problems such as headaches, dizziness, confusion and other reported affects are I think quite common. And people suffering these effects deserve to know if it is their mobile phone or not.

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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-01-10 00:09 ]

Posted by carkitter

On 2008-01-10 00:38:41, max_wedge wrote:

The fact is, there is lot's of research to suggest health implications related to the use of mobile phones. Just because there is no "proof" as yet of doesn't mean it's not happening.

The fact is, medical research is an industry where scientists and medical researchers need to think up a potential problem which needs to be studied further and then present this as a public danger in order to convince Public Health authorities to part with government money to fund their research. In other words, their jobs are at stake here. It doesn't take much to get the alarmist media onside either...

If negative effects haven't been proven then some researchers will tell you more research (which means more money) is needed until proof is found.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-11 06:27 ]

Posted by max_wedge
I suppose the same argument can be applied to smoking, ie: smoking doesn't cause cancer because there was no proof that it did for many years? (despite the fact that now in hindsight it's quite obvious, AND provable?)

Posted by carkitter
I'd be a bit worried about any researcher who couldn't find a link between smoking and lung cancer, emphysema, stomach cancer and a host of other side effects of inhaling tar vapour, arsenic, carbon monoxide, lead, etc.

If however you wrappped your k800 in paper, set it alight and inhaled the vapour you might, over several years of repeated exposure develop cancer but it wouldn't be in the brain...

Posted by max_wedge

On 2008-01-11 09:01:35, carkitter wrote:
I'd be a bit worried about any researcher who couldn't find a link between smoking and lung cancer, emphysema, stomach cancer and a host of other side effects of inhaling tar vapour, arsenic, carbon monoxide, lead, etc.

If however you wrappped your k800 in paper, set it alight and inhaled the vapour you might, over several years of repeated exposure develop cancer but it wouldn't be in the brain...

Researchers denied there was any evidence of a link between cancer and smoking for atleast 30 years before eventually it was just too obvious to ignore. It took 30 years of statistics, and eventual clinical proof, to convince people. Before that the average person, and most respected scientists, poo-poo'd the idea that there might be a link between people who smoke and the cancers they were getting.

Infact, like now with mobiles, they often used the example that most people who smoke don't get cancer, therefore it's unlikely that it's the smoking that's causing the cancers in those smokers who do get cancer. But after 30-40 years, it turned out that most people who smoke DO get cancers (or other really crappy smoking related diseases) rather than the other way around.

I'm NOT arguing that mobiles will cause cancer in every mobile phone user. I'm only arguing that there is enough statistical evidence that some people are getting cancers as a consequence of mobile phone use to warrant continuing to study the issue with an open mind. There is not enough evidence to proove carcinogenic affects, but lack of proof does not proove that there is no link at all. The issue deserves closer attention IMHO.

Posted by Twometre
Check this out but it says if mobiles can cause cancer? But this site denies that.

Posted by max_wedge
apparently the danish study wasn't very effectively conducted.

See the section titled "Flawed Danish Study Reports Cell Phones are Safe"
in this link http://www.lef.org/magazine/m[....]ort_cellphone_radiation_01.htm