Posted by londonlad123
On 2008-01-27 10:43:44, doministry wrote:
@londonlad123
If you'd read more carefully, this new Pseries will be beyond any existing device in terms of hardware at least,
stop bringing here old devices which belong to a different market niche.
And Pseries is not any direct N95 competitior.
Sounds like you are quoting fantasies and not anything substantial in terms of spec. At the moment N95 is the benchmark in terms of a successful product whether you like it or not, or how old you think it is. Something se are aiming to achieve. An indirect competitor is a competitor.
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2008-01-27 11:27:23, londonlad123 wrote:
On 2008-01-27 10:43:44, doministry wrote:
@londonlad123
If you'd read more carefully, this new Pseries will be beyond any existing device in terms of hardware at least,
stop bringing here old devices which belong to a different market niche.
And Pseries is not any direct N95 competitior.
Sounds like you are quoting fantasies and not anything substantial in terms of spec. At the moment N95 is the benchmark in terms of a successful product whether you like it or not, or how old you think it is. Something se are aiming to achieve. An indirect competitor is a competitor.
I totally agree with an adjustment. The N95 is the cellular smartphone technological benchmark, and a reasonable worldwide market price point that is OBVIOUSLY acceptable to 'most' ppl for what it offers. I don't agree with its SIM UNLOCK BNIB pricing so don't count me into this.
Niche? Be very careful using this word with ANY Nokia phones. They mostly make MASS-MARKET phones ... they're in it to WIN boys and girls and they have the most #'s ... Cash for research & development, production, distribution, and they also have the cash to show for revenue & profits. ALWAYS keep this in mind.
Now ... note that the N95 by its sheer market sales #s' is not a niche. The N95-3 (US models for normal & 8GB versions) ARE because the feature the North American 3G bands which is useless to the rest of the world, by geographic & population #'s.
A traditional 'niche' phone & direct competitor to the P5i will most likely be the communicator ... E90. If SE does design, hardware feature set, ergonomics that are unfallable, and also a sweet price point along with effective marketing/advertisement ... they can pickup where Nokia failed with the E90. This is the major question we ALL have here. Can they do it. By sheer market concentration I'd say even the P1i is a "niche" device.
Posted by Mizzle
The QWERTY keyboard is a slide out keyboard from below the phone. It's like HTC Touch Dual.
Posted by Lunion
Has it go that 'Playstation 3' feel to it?!
Posted by razec
On 2008-01-27 11:46:53, Mizzle wrote:
The QWERTY keyboard is a slide out keyboard from below the phone. It's like HTC Touch Dual.
i wonder how long would it be
but i do hope it's shorter than S700/W900 when the slide is opened 
Posted by londonlad123
I think many of the old p users will find that shocking. I quite like the p1 keyboard.
Posted by deuxani
On 2008-01-27 11:46:53, Mizzle wrote:
The QWERTY keyboard is a slide out keyboard from below the phone. It's like HTC Touch Dual.
Ow, that's a bit of a disappointment to me. Why did they decide to do this? A side sliding keyboard with bigger buttons is so much more usable, especially because webbrowsing should be done in landscape. Imagine browsing a website in landscape and you want to type a new URL, you have to return to portrait mode, type the URL (or e-mail/password/etc) and return to landscape. I know, there might be an on-screen keyboard, but what's the use of the hardware QWERTY then?
So the very very very very early Photoshop of a horizontal slider with rocker-keypad wasn't such a crazy idea
Posted by razec
On 2008-01-27 11:20:28, Tigershark42 wrote:
Though the rest of your specs, Razec, sound great! I know we wont see all of those going into the phone. The ones I am referring to are 16M colours (not too concerned, 262K is great anyway) AM radio (Would never use it, though I hope it does have RDS for the FM channels)
Stereo speakers, UIQ4 and the GPS sound likely (HD sounds a bit much, especially when it has not even been released on the cyber-shot series, though I am interested to know the resolution of the video recording, which should be a very agreeable 30fps). Opera 9 will also be featured. I too hope for autofocus and flash, and while theyre at it, why not add bestpic and other such functions too. I doubt it, but I hope, like Beibei, Paris will feature the music player from the W960, or at least something similar, with full screen visualisations and other main features, but leaving out things which less ardent music fans dont need (mood function, for example). I expect the music interface to be good since a new UI will be used.
regarding the bolded phrase,
don't say it's too much since Paris will be utilizing the new TI-OMAP 34xx CPU, which features PowerVR SGX graphics that supports HD video recording. i think it's 720i or 720x480 @ 30Fps.
I also wonder if the sensor was among the replaced components of the "Paris" i do hope it's Exmor CMOS or CCD. for sure it would knock the attention of the entire SE Cybershot fan/user base.
_________________
"Our Greatest glory is not in never failing - but in rising everytime we fall"
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2008-01-27 11:13 ]
Posted by Mizzle
Hmm, I do hope you all know that we're talking about a phone here, not a camcorder at HD resolution.
Posted by razec
On 2008-01-27 12:02:28, Mizzle wrote:
Hmm, I do hope you all know that we're talking about a phone here, not a camcorder at HD resolution.
but don't you think SE would fully utilize the TI-OMAP's capability to it's maximum? if it's not then i think VGA would be enough.
Posted by Mizzle
@razec
Video in HD - that's like a few megabytes of video per second.
Posted by chuksy
On 2008-01-27 03:40:17, famous12 wrote:
On 2008-01-26 19:45:32, chuksy wrote:
@ mizzle
Do you know if the p5 would be released in the US?
I think they need something like that over there cos their whole life seem to revolve around the iphone,which in my opinion is just hype and marketing
dudde y dnt u just get it frm ebay ?? all SE phones are available there...so when p5i comes out get search n buy it frm ebay...thts exactly wat im gonna do
Sorry dude. i dont live in the US, so i wouldn't have the problem of getting one. Thank Goodness
[ This Message was edited by: chuksy on 2008-01-27 12:09 ]
Posted by londonlad123
so this htc touch dual like keypad is going to be flat?
My main concern is the thickness of the phone, something similar to the w910 base but a few mm thicker and wider. The 5mpix cam would have to stick out.
Posted by Tigershark42
That is an absolutely useless keyboard then! Why would I want to type in portrait? I thought it would be like the mylo and so be mainly for uses such as web browsing, email, etc (which is what the P series is often focused on). This makes the P5i suddenly seem pathetic because they have ruined it with a shallow minded design feature. A useless keyboard just adds bulk to the phone. For that its better to change to landscape (at least have an accelerometer, P5!) and use an on screen keyboard. Im absolutely shocked by that!
Posted by Mizzle
Wait and see... It'll be ok
Posted by Tigershark42
I doubt that at the moment. If that was the case wouldnt it have made more sense to exclude the keyboard altogether and make the phone more like the HTC touch cruise. Fine it has no keyboard, but its much more elegant that way if a good on screen keyboard is used.
Anyway, we will see.
Razec, I was not saying that the phone couldnt handle HD, what Im saying is its not practical. It is preferable to keep file sizes small, IMHO. This, of course depends on the memory. I'd be very happy with DVD quality playback, if possible. Otherwise the same quality as in the W960 would suffice.
Mizzle: do you think the music player will be in any way comparable (or customisable) to the W960 then?
Also: have you actually seen or used the device, heard about it, or seen images of it?
Posted by razec
On 2008-01-27 13:17:53, Mizzle wrote:
Wait and see... It'll be ok
@Tshark:
just imagine P990 slide closed without keyboard with it's size reduced and similar keyboard put into the slide. in other words the size wont be as long as HTC Touch slide for sure
Posted by Tigershark42
I dont like the P990 lol. I was hoping for something very similar to the Tytn II, or the mylo. Conventional sliders seem very impractical to me. The whole point of a qwerty keyboard is that a) you dont have to toggle or multiple press keys to get to the letter you want, and b) typing is faster because in landscape mode you can use both thumbs. Thoroughly disappointing.
[ This Message was edited by: Tigershark42 on 2008-01-27 12:39 ]
Posted by doministry
Well, I'm happy if it will be like you say!
Actually, NOT switching horizontal/vertical in writing is much more convinient, as for me. Imagine some faster actions on-the-go.
And, as I understood Pnext will feature QWERTY, right? That's what Michell Bak answered on USEB....
I write this as P990 owner, loving it's form factor.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2008-01-27 13:15 ]
Posted by Drasko
One hard historical fact about all devices and things around us:
You can not put all functions efectively in aa small apparatus!
There is a lot of affort to make a litle printer for example!
But litle printer is unreliable and bad for quality printing!
So is the case with the phones! You can not browse. view maps and read the documents with a lot of sound and, and, and etc.
The minumum shape for this try is (sorry for tat) the nokia E90 shape!
So be prepare to dissapoint in the functionality of the new P!
O I forgot to mention that it must be also mechanicaly good (steel or metalic body) which wil not be case with P (sorry but I am sure because of price of course., ,Same quirk as all functionality).
Be prepare for some dissapointing!
But enjoy anyway the P!
Posted by Drasko
Sorry for bothering you with pessimistic thinking!
It will be good apparatus and certainly the step forward to an ideal phone!
Enjoy it folks!
Posted by famous12
On 2008-01-27 12:23:31, chuksy wrote:
On 2008-01-27 03:40:17, famous12 wrote:
On 2008-01-26 19:45:32, chuksy wrote:
@ mizzle
Do you know if the p5 would be released in the US?
I think they need something like that over there cos their whole life seem to revolve around the iphone,which in my opinion is just hype and marketing
dudde y dnt u just get it frm ebay ?? all SE phones are available there...so when p5i comes out get search n buy it frm ebay...thts exactly wat im gonna do
Sorry dude. i dont live in the US, so i wouldn't have the problem of getting one. Thank Goodness
[ This Message was edited by: chuksy on 2008-01-27 12:09 ]
lol your lucky then
[ This Message was edited by: famous12 on 2008-01-27 16:17 ]
Posted by ambyzown
On 2007-11-06 18:17:11, PeterKay wrote:
Try not to compare the N95
with the P5i as the P5i kicks the N95's a$$ big time.
Well done
Really? Now I'm interested
Posted by doministry
l
On 2008-01-27 17:20:24, ambyzown wrote:
On 2007-11-06 18:17:11, PeterKay wrote:
Try not to compare the N95
with the P5i as the P5i kicks the N95's a$$ big time.
Well done
Really? Now I'm interested
I would be surprised if Pnext would not kick N95, especially that it's not such a special device! I mean, it should be development, not a step backwards. I hope next P will be still something special on smartphone market.
Posted by Drasko
I had before a few years the SE R385 phone and I must say that they (SE) advanced in the functionality and design but i in the area of reliability in my opinion they must take o one step up (stee or metal parts body and better keys) after that they will be better than any other phone (incl. N´s)
Future is bright for P!
Posted by C905
Is the keypad something like this or what
???
[ This Message was edited by: k850 successor on 2008-01-27 20:19 ]
Posted by makbil
Accelerometer on P5 ?? What is this a gameboy?
I hope SE doesn't turn the traditional P series into child's play... The concept pix, if that is how the P5 ends up, are bad enough. I'll wait for actual release before the verdict, we all know specs don't mean too much with SE.
Looks like I may have to hang on to my P990 for a good deal longer than I would like...
Posted by NightBlade
I really hope they put an accelerometer in the P5.
Posted by Tigershark42
Me too
Posted by doministry
@makbil
I don't share your fears so much, honestly.
As long as they REALLY support office/business tools on a large scale (I hope for that!!!) including Office/txt apps, good email and browsing and all we need for work/business,
there's nothing wrong in supplying a device in a new and interesting technology,
I mean it doesn't have to be an boring typing machine-like phone,
if you have enough of RAM and stability - why not to have a good media inside?
As I said, as long as they support office, and I have big requirements in this field, working on P990 very intensively every day for a last year.
Actually, NOBODY wrote it here - Word in P990 is not sufficient for any larger txt and I really hope I won't have to help myself with 3rd party apps.
So, finally, if Pnext gives me amazing video playback/Flash in browser but still cannot edit an 70 pages Word text, I'll see it as a fail by SE. In this regard it could be a reason to look somewhere else.
But I think it will be allright,
makbil, you won't change it - most of smartphones already turn to TouchScreen, this is the future - intuitive...
P.S. But yes, the above keyb. idea is horrible.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2008-01-27 21:29 ]
Posted by Bambino
Yah yah yah...
(very pessimist)
Posted by makbil
@doministry, I'm not against technology at all... I just don't want to see phone features sacrificed for PDA features. Take for example the answer and reject buttons at the bottom of the device, ergonomically it's a no no for one handed use as a phone.
I'm not saying that I don't want better sound quality, better video and pictures but better PIM applications, better office programs, better browser, good backup/restore options are more important... and functions such as messaging, contacts and calendar definitely need to be available and easy to use one handed.
At any rate, the P5 may turn out to be a good device but that doesn't mean that it can be the P990 successor.
The days of blind loyalty to SE have faded away thanks to SE's treatment of the P990 case, so if SE decides to end the Pxx concept for some shiny fancy multimedia device, there are plenty of other devices by brands that at least care to some degree about their customers and provide support for their devices.
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2008-01-27 11:59:37, razec wrote:
On 2008-01-27 11:20:28, Tigershark42 wrote:
Though the rest of your specs, Razec, sound great! I know we wont see all of those going into the phone. The ones I am referring to are 16M colours (not too concerned, 262K is great anyway) AM radio (Would never use it, though I hope it does have RDS for the FM channels)
Stereo speakers, UIQ4 and the GPS sound likely (HD sounds a bit much, especially when it has not even been released on the cyber-shot series, though I am interested to know the resolution of the video recording, which should be a very agreeable 30fps). Opera 9 will also be featured. I too hope for autofocus and flash, and while theyre at it, why not add bestpic and other such functions too. I doubt it, but I hope, like Beibei, Paris will feature the music player from the W960, or at least something similar, with full screen visualisations and other main features, but leaving out things which less ardent music fans dont need (mood function, for example). I expect the music interface to be good since a new UI will be used.
regarding the bolded phrase,
don't say it's too much since Paris will be utilizing the new TI-OMAP 34xx CPU, which features PowerVR SGX graphics that supports HD video recording. i think it's 720i or 720x480 @ 30Fps.
I also wonder if the sensor was among the replaced components of the "Paris" i do hope it's Exmor CMOS or CCD. for sure it would knock the attention of the entire SE Cybershot fan/user base.
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2008-01-27 11:13 ]
lol ... really? Please show me which TI OMAP cpu can record, heck even playback HD video ... at either ( i think it's 720i or 720x480 @ 30Fps.
) resolution?
just some help to point you to my dispute with your overestimation ...
I bring you ...
TI's OMAP Platform ...
http://focus.ti.com/general/d[....]igationId=12609&contentId=4672
Posted by razec
First of all I'M NOT OVERESTIMATING!
From the link you've given me, you're pointing to thew old 24xx CPU from TI, i am talking about 3430 series. search there and you can see that it's been stated 720x480 pixels @ 30Fps
http://focus.ti.com/general/d[....]gationId=12643&contentId=14649
^^
just a bit messy link imho
_________________
"Our Greatest glory is not in never failing - but in rising everytime we fall"
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2008-01-28 06:40 ]
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2008-01-28 07:36:18, razec wrote:
First of all I'M NOT OVERESTIMATING!
From the link you've given me, you're pointing to thew old 24xx CPU from TI, i am talking about 3430 series. search there and you can see that it's been stated 720x480 pixels @ 30Fps
http://focus.ti.com/general/d[....]gationId=12643&contentId=14649
^^
just a bit messy link imho
_________________
"Our Greatest glory is not in never failing - but in rising everytime we fall"
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2008-01-28 06:40 ]
Yes the link I gave was the old one you can EASILY select from the side menu ... which I'm glad you were able to. Unless I'm mistaken the 3230 is in Japanese.
I cannot read japanese and AltaVista doesn't do a good job of translation.
Again where do you see it stating that high resolution for recording?
[quote=TI OMAP]IVA™ 2+（图像、视频、音频）加速器支持多种标准（MPEG4、WMV9、RealVideo、H263 和 H264）的 D1（720x480 像素）30fps 速率下的编码/解码[/quote] this could be playback on a TV-OUT for all I know. You stated this is for recording, so again I must ask or for a reliable translator, please.
Posted by Supa_Fly
This is Alta Vistas translation of that block of text.
IVA? 2+ (? Image? ? Sound? ) Accelerator support multi? ? Associate (MPEG4, WMV9, RealVideo and H263 harmony H264) mark D1 (720x480 image element) under 30fps fast ratio? ? / Solution?
From the cpu of the same generation just 1 model down is the 3220 ... and IVA 2 is ...
IVA™ 2 (Image Video Audio) accelerator enables VGA resolution video playback for multiple video standards
or ...
# lexible system support
* Composite and S-video TV output
* VGA (640 x 480 pixels), 16M-color (24-bit definition) display support
* Flatlink™ 3G-compliant serial display and parallel display support
* High Speed USB2.0 On-The-Go support
thats TV output not recording.
Posted by razec
On 2008-01-28 07:49:23, Prom1 wrote:
On 2008-01-28 07:36:18, razec wrote:
First of all I'M NOT OVERESTIMATING!
From the link you've given me, you're pointing to thew old 24xx CPU from TI, i am talking about 3430 series. search there and you can see that it's been stated 720x480 pixels @ 30Fps
http://focus.ti.com/general/d[....]gationId=12643&contentId=14649
^^
just a bit messy link imho
_________________
"Our Greatest glory is not in never failing - but in rising everytime we fall"
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2008-01-28 06:40 ]
Yes the link I gave was the old one you can EASILY select from the side menu ... which I'm glad you were able to. Unless I'm mistaken the 3230 is in Japanese.
I cannot read japanese and AltaVista doesn't do a good job of translation.
Again where do you see it stating that high resolution for recording?
[quote=TI OMAP]IVA™ 2+（图像、视频、音频）加速器支持多种标准（MPEG4、WMV9、RealVideo、H263 和 H264）的 D1（720x480 像素）30fps 速率下的编码/解码
[/quote]
i know were getting off topic here but as you seem to be driving our boat of discussion from P5 to the "CPU", here are some news that proves my arguments
http://www.engadgethd.com/200[....]0-processor-adds-hd-to-phones/
and yes that was what i'm pointing at, and it's obvious that it's the HD playback i'm talking about. apologizes if i say "recording" it's only VGA rec. not HD
but 3430 streams HD videos.(not sure if it's interlace or progressive scan) and the mere fact that it supports XGA resolution (1024x768) for sure HD streaming inside the phone itself is possible
you seem to have won this time!
Posted by Wozik
OMAP34xx family features cortex a8 core, but the only operating system, capable of using it is symbian 9.5. and uiq 3.2 that is used in Paris is built on Symbian 9.2!
I'm confused. Who is mistaken?
besides, UIQ 3.2 means no VGA-screen, because this OS doesn't support higher resulutions
Posted by Drasko
Makbill !
You are absolutely right!
If they (SE) decide to finish P concept (instead to expand it like Nokia with E business series) let him do it!!
Today, there is so much PDA phones (from Nokia Business E Series new E71 to Samsung 740 etc) that if they decide to go in freak devices like iPhone with lot of entertainment gadgets we must bye another phone.
Once again: in one phone is not possible to put all functions effectively and
SE do it that in a P series. This Series must be braked in P5E (like business), P5N(like multimedia and walkman) with the separated functional keys like Nokias E-phones with dedicated Home-Mail-Cal.-Contact main keys or they will finished in caos!
Sorry to say that but it is reality!
Anyway, enjoy the P (while you can)
Posted by ScoreP
On 2008-01-27 11:46:53, Mizzle wrote:
The QWERTY keyboard is a slide out keyboard from below the phone. It's like HTC Touch Dual.
It will be a disappointment for business users as well as web browsing etc.
Posted by Drasko
You mean Multitouch with two characters on one key (one click one QWERTY character another click another ch.!
Fantastic they did not move much more from beginning!
(the E 90 with S60 touch option or similar are again in a game)
I expected a combo E90 and iPhone with sliding side keyboard!
It will be a winner combo for this moment!
But knowing the SE ....
By my P friends!
Posted by Drasko
Picture of HTC Dual keyb.
Posted by ares
On 2008-01-28 09:46:33, Wozik wrote:
OMAP34xx family features cortex a8 core, but the only operating system, capable of using it is symbian 9.5. and uiq 3.2 that is used in Paris is built on Symbian 9.2!
I'm confused. Who is mistaken?
besides, UIQ 3.2 means no VGA-screen, because this OS doesn't support higher resulutions
no one said paris will have UIQ3.2...beibei, yes...
Posted by Wozik
ares, do you really think, that two smartphones, launched at the same time, will be made on a different hardware/software?
Posted by badassmam
For the P1 style rocker keypad to slide under the phone, it would end up being quite thick. Look at the P1 keys side on. People say that the phone is small but now i'm expecting something like the N95. I hope that some lower end X series phones with touchscreen come out because I know that Paris will be seriously expensive. Also, I hope they put in all the little features in like gesture control and shake thing; those things make the phone cool.
Posted by doministry
@makbil
@drasko
Right, agree on "Business Device" arguments,
But I'm personally open for new propositions, also regarding operating system.
We can discuss but before we touch it it's hard to decide. Problem is also that so many different devices are proposed lately, but besides TyTn II and maybe E90 and P1 nothing really catches my reall attention, many other devices give more PDA and less phone,
also, I don't want to switch to other oparating system like WM,
So, I conceptually and experimantally decided to stay WITH Pseries and leave it only in case of completely unacceptable solutions/problems.
Posted by RoKeC
On 2008-01-28 13:40:04, Wozik wrote:
ares, do you really think, that two smartphones, launched at the same time, will be made on a different hardware/software?
beibei is Walkman phone, Paris is P series phone!
i think yes:D
Posted by ares
precisely...
Posted by Tigershark42
Is there any news on whether or not future SE devices will have Flash lite (3 ?) preinstalled installed?
Posted by bodeh6
They should have Flash 3 Lite. Every Smartphone in 2008 should support it. There is that new SkyFire browser for Windows Mobile and coming to S60 as well. Fully rendered pages just like a desktop. JAVA, full Flash support, Quicktime, etc...
SE needs a Killer Smartphone to stay in the game.