Posted by fatreg
On 2007-11-10 12:57:52, JoolsG4 wrote:
Apple products are more of a trend for the average person, they dont actually favor technology or features whatsoever.
LOL! You really are showing your complete and utter lack of knowledge about Apple products.
Technology and features aren't everything to everyone, except geeks. Most people just want a product to work, work well, and easily. That's where Apple excels. They make complicated technology easy to use for non-geeks.
It is a well known fact that most people don't use most of the features in a phone. Most of the advanced features are too much trouble to set-up and use for the average man in the street.
How many of the billions of phone owners actually ever use thier phone to connect a laptop to the internet? A very very small minority. So most people would miss the lack of such a feature. Same goes for other missing iPhone features compared to some other phones.
Apple have been the first to market with many - now commonplace - technologies in their desktop and laptop computers. I'm not saying they invented all the technologies, but they've been the first to use them in mass market products.
Before making such sweeping statements, you should actually do some research, because it becoming clearer and clearer with each successive pst of yours, you know next to nothing about Apple products, and their history.
hoorah!
where would we be without firewire?
I still can't see a USB device that can be daisy chained....
Posted by ayejatt
so you can go into CPW or apple store and buy an iphone without signing up to the 18-month contract on the spot?
Posted by Daedalus85
correct, but it's useless until you go home and connect it to a contract via your computer.
Posted by Mr Miyagi
On 2007-11-10 21:27:51, ayejatt wrote:
so you can go into CPW or apple store and buy an iphone without signing up to the 18-month contract on the spot?
you only sign up to the o2 contract, when you are going through the activation process to activate your handset via itunes.
Posted by ayejatt
ic...thanks for clearing that up guys
Posted by jcwhite_uk
Could I buy an iPhone from O2 without contract and use it on my existing £20 tariff?
Posted by Mr Miyagi
On 2007-11-10 21:59:12, jcwhite_uk wrote:
Could I buy an iPhone from O2 without contract and use it on my existing £20 tariff?
answer is no. the phone will only work on the specific iphone tariff's available on the o2 network. unless your able to unlock your handset and try it that way. which i am not sure if it will still work, if you get it unlocked. but official line is,, with o2 and apple, that other o2 tariffs wont work with the handset.
Posted by fatreg
On 2007-11-10 21:35:02, Mr Miyagi wrote:
On 2007-11-10 21:27:51, ayejatt wrote:
so you can go into CPW or apple store and buy an iphone without signing up to the 18-month contract on the spot?
you only sign up to the o2 contract, when you are going through the activation process to activate your handset via itunes.
this confuses me effing greatly..
So I buy the phone, it's not on contract.. therefore MY property... So does that mean O2 have to unlock it? or have ofcom/O2 said anything yet?
this takes me back, you cannot buy a non contract phone and it be locked to a network, the law doesn't allow it..
Where do us non-O2 users stand?
Posted by A L 3 X
I had a little play with the iPhone today in CPW when i was about to buy a k850i till i was told it was out of stock
It really tempted me although im already a few months into a t-mob contract and I dont think theres any way to unlock the Uk one or such......the UI was quite simple considering i've never even read an iphone review before nevermind playing with one....and the cam seemed good for a 2MP
Posted by haynesycop
I'm in the same situation, i want to get a UK iPhone, now. Will probably sell my USA one. I just started my t-mobile contract so the only thing i can think of is to reduce the tariff down to just web 'n' walk for £7.50 per month and then get the o2 contract. Only thing is will o2 let me transfer my old number back to them after the contract with t-mobile is over?
Posted by Mr Miyagi
On 2007-11-10 22:03:42, fatreg wrote:
On 2007-11-10 21:35:02, Mr Miyagi wrote:
On 2007-11-10 21:27:51, ayejatt wrote:
so you can go into CPW or apple store and buy an iphone without signing up to the 18-month contract on the spot?
you only sign up to the o2 contract, when you are going through the activation process to activate your handset via itunes.
this confuses me effing greatly..
So I buy the phone, it's not on contract.. therefore MY property... So does that mean O2 have to unlock it? or have ofcom/O2 said anything yet?
this takes me back, you cannot buy a non contract phone and it be locked to a network, the law doesn't allow it..
Where do us non-O2 users stand?
If you buy the handset, yes it is your property. However the way O2 see's it, is that if you for some reason fail the credit check, then you have the option to take the handset back to point of sale and obtain full refund. If you decide to keep the handset and not go through activation process in order to activate the handset the official way, as in (o2's way) then there is no mention of O2 having to unlock the handset that you purchased. If they are made to unlock it, then the unlock charge has not been confirmed by O2, since right now, they as far as i know, not though about that option. But when they do, i am sure it will be a high price to unlock the handset.
Posted by seunlock-uk
Why do you want a UK one instead of a US one, they are the same?
Only differnece is FW, so you can do a lot more with the US one as it can be both Jailbroken and Hactivated.
If you get a UK one it has 1.12 and will be stuck with NO 3rd party utils and have to take an 18month guff contract from O2. Spending ~£1500 in the process.
Good luck With That.
I'll stick to my fully unlocked, and activated US version, with everything I need, and loads of 3rd party utils.
Posted by A L 3 X
I had a little play with the iPhone today in CPW when i was about to buy a k850i till i was told it was out of stock
It really tempted me although im already a few months into a t-mob contract and I dont think theres any way to unlock the Uk one or such......the UI was quite simple considering i've never even read an iphone review before nevermind playing with one....and the cam seemed good for a 2MP
Posted by fatreg
as long as you've got a pac Miss C you can port it back...
you might be able to get a pac already from tmob and they supply you with a new phone number......
Posted by Bhavv
Regardless of what you think of the I-phone, the sales speak for themselves.
Yesterday when the phone was released there were queues in most stores selling it.
Today, the day after the phone was released, there were no Queues. Most stores today sold in the regions of 10-20 I-phones, and nowhere is even sold out yet. And lets not forget that today is saturday, when shops are a lot lot busier then on a friday.
I-phone = I-flunk in the UK.
And for my earlier posts about apple, I did only metion the I-pod and I-phone, not macs.
I have use a G5 with Pro tools for my minor in music and absolutely loved the software. For buisnesses and workstations they are very good, however for home use I would much rather stick to a PC for its games and upgradablitity. And PC's are just as easy to use as macs and nowhere near as complicated as the Mac commercials makes them out to be.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2007-11-10 23:05 ]
Posted by haynesycop
Excellent i'll do that then and hopefully i can downgrade the tariff to a silly amount too! I think the problem is just the whole network situation if it was unlocked and sold on more than one network through CPW for example it would be more of a hit. I'd bet money on it.
Posted by Jools
Where are you getting these 10-20 sales per store figures from? I've only seen official figures for Germany from T-mobile who say they sold in excess of 10,000 iPhones on Friday.
As the iPhone was available from 1300 outlets in the UK, your figure of 10-20 iPhones per store equates to between 13,000 and 26,000 iPhones sold in the UK in 24 hours. That sounds pretty good to me - especially considering its high cost, and the fact it didn't even go on sale yesterday until 6.02pm.
The overwhelming comments I overheard in the CPW and O2 stores I went into today was about the cost. That was the only negative point I heard made - nothing about the phone itself...
The reason the iPhone (not "I-phone" - at least try to get the name right!) hasn't sold out is because Apple made sure there was enough stock.
Posted by Superluminova
just thinking, if you were lucky enough to get an unlock code from o2 for this, would it by pass the activation process?
Posted by fatreg
there will be a way of doing it Super..
It's just not known yet...
but the whole small claims court seems very appealing atm...
Posted by jcwhite_uk
I went into my local CPW thsi morning about an upgrade (not iPhone related), the guy told me that his shop opened early this morning but there were no customers until after normal opening time. No queues there.
Posted by Nanu
Once you've got your iPhone, the next thing to do is activate it. This couldn't be simpler. All you have to do is enter into an 18 month minimum term Pay Monthly contract with O2 on one of our exclusive iPhone tariffs. These start at just £35 a month.
What I don't get after reading the above (bearing in mind I'm tired and have had a bottle of mulled wine) is "once" I have bought the iPhone all I have to do is enter an 18 month contract!
So therefore I am not agreeing to anything nor signing anything to buy the phone, yet if I want to use it I have to enter the contract?!
So I go to Fords and get me a new focus outright with funds from the bank, after buying it I notice I need fuel, but here's the catch I have to sign a contract with BP to purchase the fuel from them!
Eh?? go figure? As the Regmeister says small claims courts will be hearing a lot about the iphone!
Posted by Bhavv
On 2007-11-11 00:17:07, JoolsG4 wrote:
Where are you getting these 10-20 sales per store figures from? I've only seen official figures for Germany from T-mobile who say they sold in excess of 10,000 iPhones on Friday.
http://www.whatmobile.net/forumvb/showthread.php?t=24259
Sorry to burst your I-poo fantasy bubble, but theres literally no one anywhere buying one in the UK except for the initial sales to fanboys on friday.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2007-11-10 23:59 ]
Posted by Jools
Well, it does say quiet clearly on the O2 and Apple web-sites, and on the literature in store, the following:
"Only with a new minimum term 18 month Pay Monthly O2 tariff for iPhone"
"iPhone is activated via iTunes on your PC or Mac. All you need to do is install iTunes, plug iPhone into your PC or Mac and you will be taken through the activation process which includes selecting your tariff and syncing your music, contacts, calendar and bookmarks."
I also overheard sales staff in O2 and CPW telling potential customers it costs £270 plus a minimum £35 per month for 18 months.
So, there's not much you could take to the small claims court with regard to not being able to use the phone you bought. It's pretty clear from the outset you have to activate it and sign-up for the 18 month contract.
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all'
Seeing if people can force either Apple or 02 to unlock their property is a whole different topic, conveniently located here
http://www.esato.com/board/vi[....]c=155487&start=180#post2153609
Ignore Daedalus85 last post as there's always one, and read as far back as you feel necessary. I am not well so haven't been out but could well be speaking to Apple, 02 and OFCOM on Monday.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-11-10 23:59 ]
Posted by Bhavv
http://www.whatmobile.net/forumvb/showthread.php?t=24090
Check out this thread as well - Anyone going to get an iphone? with a poll too.
3 yes
34 no.
Not a lot of people voting I know, but read through the posts on both links and you'll see theres not a lot of people buying the I-phone anywhere.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2007-11-11 00:03 ]
Posted by Jools
@Bhavv:
Erm... where in that thread does it say anything about sales figures of 10-20 per store - let alone any official sales figures?
I think you're making stuff up again!
Sorry to burst your I-poo fantasy bubble, but theres literally no one anywhere buying one in the UK except for the initial sales to fanboys on friday.
Erm.. you're the one who said each store sold 10-20 iPhones - not me!
[ This Message was edited by: JoolsG4 on 2007-11-11 00:04 ]
Posted by Nanu
@Jools
I fully appreciate what you are saying, that they make you aware before hand but that still does not make it legal as your are purchasing the phone outside of a contract!
They may well advise you of it but you do not have to sign anything to that effect therefore you are effectively buying a sim free unit to do with what you like, just because they say you have to use what they tell you doesn't mean it will stand up in court!
Posted by Bhavv
I thought I read somewhere that someone asked in the london stores how many they had sold, one had sold 20, the other 10. I'm sure I read it, but anyway, theres problably fewer people then that buying one anyway by the look of it
http://www.whatmobile.net/for[....]ost.php?p=222154&postcount=147
here it is, single post for you to see it.
check system for oxford street and they sold 30. my friend who works for carphone said they only sold 10 and shut early due to no customers,
i also walked past o2 and carphone where i live they were empty too.
drove past cpw and an o2 store today and normal for them
I'm pretty sure sales figures are only going to fall from here on and not improve.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2007-11-11 00:09 ]
Posted by Superluminova
Ok i'll clear this 10-20 phones issue up a bit.
Was speaking to my mate who happens to be a manager of an o2 store in edinburgh and he told me they sold 24 on friday night and today at 3pm when i spoke to him they had sold 12 phones.
Not to shabby really!
oops typo meant 12 not 32 lol
_________________
I love my Apple Mac, but I won't buy a iPhone (Unless i'm having a stupid buying day)
A-ZoTT
[ This Message was edited by: Superluminova on 2007-11-11 00:12 ]
Posted by Jools
I think when you buy the iPhone you're actually purchasing it on the condition that you do sign-up to the contract in order to use it on O2.
Officially you shouldn't be able to activate the iPhone for use without signing up for the contract. No doubt a hack for that will be coming soon.
But if you choose to break the terms of the purchase - which are made clear before you buy - I don't really see how O2 can be legally liable to unlock the phone for you.
I'm sure Apple and O2's lawyers have covered their asses on this one!!
Posted by Superluminova
yeah Jools but if someone in the uk request an unlock for they're phone the network must provide them with it.
Saying that there is not maximum charge for the code!
Posted by Bhavv
On 2007-11-11 01:09:56, Superluminova wrote:
Ok i'll clear this 10-20 phones issue up a bit.
Was speaking to my mate who happens to be a manager of an o2 store in edinburgh and he told me they sold 24 on friday night and today at 3pm when i spoke to him they had sold 12 phones.
Not to shabby really!
oops typo meant 12 not 32 lol
24 I-phones sold on its release day and 12 the next day for a store in Scotlands capital is lame. Disagree if you want, its pathetic sales figures.
The K850i sold out in 2 days on T-mobile. They got them in stock on thursday, I upgraded on friday, called on saturday and their systems were showing out of stock on the handset.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2007-11-11 00:17 ]
Posted by Nanu
I don't think they have gone into this blindly, but I cant understand why they have left themselves open? I mean why not get you to sign the contract and pick your tariff at the point of sale as is usual with all other phones and therefore covering their arses 100% as they are supplying you with a subsidised phone!
But then again, that said should I really be complaining as if they did as I suggested above I couldn't just go buy one and have it unlocked and hactivated as I am sure it will be possible soon!
I've confused myself again now, and have decided to take a back-seat as I have just proved to myself that the way they are doing it is best all round!
Posted by Jools
@Bhavv
What a joke!
So, you're basing your whole UK iPhone sales claims on what one unknown person wrote in a single post, based on what his "friend who works for carphone" said?
Blimey, I hope you never go into journalism and need to back-up an of the stuff you write with proof!!
In that case, I can tell you that a bloke down the road, who's next door neighbour knows someone who walked past a CPW store today, said they'd sold 3 million iPhones in 30 minutes - so it must be true!!!
Come back when you've got some official sales figures to discuss.
The K850i sold out in 2 days on T-mobile. They got them in stock on thursday, I upgraded on friday, called on saturday and their systems were showing out of stock on the handset.
Once again, whereas super backs up his claims with actual numbers, you don't. What if t-mobile only had 10 K850's in? That's just 5 sold per day. Without actual official numbers, it all means nothing.
[ This Message was edited by: JoolsG4 on 2007-11-11 00:20 ]
Posted by Bhavv
Jools are you having a laugh? These are figures from London and Edinburgh...
Look at them again and tell me how many I-phones you think sold in cities with a quarter the population of these.
Seriously get a clue.
my bad i guess it may have just been outta london area's that didnt do well.
check system for oxford street and they sold 30. my friend who works for carphone said they only sold 10 and shut early due to no customers,
i also walked past o2 and carphone where i live they were empty too.
drove past cpw and an o2 store today and normal for them
Was speaking to my mate who happens to be a manager of an o2 store in edinburgh and he told me they sold 24 on friday night and today at 3pm when i spoke to him they had sold 12 phones.
check system for oxford street and they sold 30. my friend who works for carphone said they only sold 10 and shut early due to no customers,
i also walked past o2 and carphone where i live they were empty too.
drove past cpw and an o2 store today and normal for them
Was speaking to my mate who happens to be a manager of an o2 store in edinburgh and he told me they sold 24 on friday night and today at 3pm when i spoke to him they had sold 12 phones.
30 phones in one store in london, 10 in another. 24 phones on release day in an O2 store in Edinburgh, 12 the next day. I will believe these figures untill you yourself can find out any more valid data.
The proof is right here, I dont need a journalism degree to read and understand these figures.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2007-11-11 00:25 ]
Posted by Superluminova
maybe you two should wait for the official figures.
Oh and bhavv do you work in mobil retail?
because when a phone is released in store you normally get 5 - 6 max
Posted by Jools
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...
The figures super quoted were for ONE store in Edinburgh. We don't know which one - whether its a big one, a small one, a busy one or a quiet one...
Edinburgh has EIGHT O2 stores. So lets assume supers figure of 32 iPhones for that one store is accurate. Now get your calculator out and multiply 32 by 8 and it might give you a very rough estimate of how many they sold in the city as a whole.
Some of Edinburgh's O2 stores may have sold more, some may have sold less. We don't know.
Let's wait for the official figures...
And I really don't care how many they sold - but at least I don't make baseless claims about it.
Posted by Dogmann
@JoolsG4
I think the point here is not really how many have already sold or even how many will eventually sell, but this is not the same reaction to the US launch not anywhere close. People whee queuing up overnight and they limited them due to demand. 02 and Apples 2 per person they should be so lucky just now.
I think one of the problems is not every one wants to have to spend £35pm and £630 over 18 months and be stuck with one phone that cost's them £269. Can some one tell me can you reactivate a iPhone with a new Sim and user as if not you can't even sell it.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-11-11 00:43 ]
Posted by Jools
@Dogmann
I totally agree with you. It was obvious long ago that the iPhone was never going to be the runaway success in Europe that it was in the US. It's simply too expensive compared to what we're used to paying for a phone here. And with the minimum £35 18-month contract on top it's just too much for a large number of potential purchasers (me included).
I wasn't trying to suggest sales were great - I simply don't know. Just trying to put some balance to Bhavvs unsubstantiated claims. In fact, in the four stores I went into today I didn't see a single iPhone sold - even though there was a steady stream of people viewing them. Most customers I overheard were definitely put off by the price, although impressed by the phone itself.
Posted by Dogmann
Hi Jools G4
I do think think they are great especially as a Multimedia computer like an N series although i would say even an N series is better equipped software wise for some Buisness functionality. As for
"Just trying to put some balance to Bhavvs unsubstantiated claims"
@Bhav
What are you talking about with this
"most people buying apple products are pretty stupid. Its usually cases of just buying them as fashion accessories or because they are cool and everyone else has one so you must buy one too. Apple products are more of a trend for the average person, they don't actually favor technology or features whatsoever."
You really can't be serious you really think there are really that many people all buy iPods because they are rubbish do you, people in the Music business to whom sound is everything. I really used to think my mobile device's did a really good job with Music until i got an iPod, none of them get even close. iTunes is incredibly simple to use and produces great sound for an iPod if converted well and you use a decent set of headphones. It even does a good job for occasional Video watching podcasts or episode's of Hero's for example not great for watching a whole film though. Even though i am getting an N95 8GB i doubt it will replace my iPod for Music playback, video and films definitely.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-11-11 01:14 ]
Posted by Mr Miyagi
On 2007-11-11 01:16:19, Bhavv wrote:
On 2007-11-11 01:09:56, Superluminova wrote:
Ok i'll clear this 10-20 phones issue up a bit.
Was speaking to my mate who happens to be a manager of an o2 store in edinburgh and he told me they sold 24 on friday night and today at 3pm when i spoke to him they had sold 12 phones.
Not to shabby really!
oops typo meant 12 not 32 lol
24 I-phones sold on its release day and 12 the next day for a store in Scotlands capital is lame. Disagree if you want, its pathetic sales figures.
The K850i sold out in 2 days on T-mobile. They got them in stock on thursday, I upgraded on friday, called on saturday and their systems were showing out of stock on the handset.
[ This Message was edited by: Bhavv on 2007-11-11 00:17 ]
The only reason why the K850i got sold out of stock, is because: The handset was either offered free, or well lower than the price that the iphone is sold at. and secondly s.e just did not provide t mobile with enough stock.
Posted by Superluminova
Ok spoke to o2 and this is the short version:
Me: Hello, i want the unlock code / procedure for my iPhone.
O2: We don't unlock them.
Me: Really, you do know its apparently against the law to refuse to give customers unlock codes in the uk?
O2: Nope I didn't, I'll speak to my team leader.
a few minutes pass...
O2: We don't do the unlock codes you'll need to speak to Apple.
Me: Ok i'll get someone to speak to OFCOM about it.
So as you can see its was all rather pointless calling O2.
Posted by Coxy
@Super
Interesting that they said go to Apple don't you think? Wonder what would happen if you spoke to them....
Oh and on a side note, have you been having a stupid buying day? 'Cos your sig seems to show that!
Posted by indup
On 2007-11-11 19:18:28, Superluminova wrote:
Ok spoke to o2 and this is the short version:
Me: Hello, i want the unlock code / procedure for my iPhone.
O2: We don't unlock them.
Me: Really, you do know its apparently against the law to refuse to give customers unlock codes in the uk?
O2: Nope I didn't, I'll speak to my team leader.
a few minutes pass...
O2: We don't do the unlock codes you'll need to speak to Apple.
Me: Ok i'll get someone to speak to OFCOM about it.
So as you can see its was all rather pointless calling O2.
superluminova, please phone apple and tell us what they say to you. (and dont forget to mention that 02 said to ring them).
Posted by Superluminova
Erm... unfortunately Saturday was a very stupid buying day! lol
£199 for an iPhone that is essentially a paper weight! for the time being lol
Posted by indup
i thought they were £269, and cant you do ANYTHING with it?
Posted by Superluminova
£199 if you know someone that works for O2
Posted by seunlock-uk
Just a wee note,
O2 Princes St. Edinburgh (West End) Sold 60 units up to close of business Friday.
Not bad.
The issue with the iPhone is always going to be the fact it is locked to one network. They will try and get around this by saying that they will give you an unlock code at the END of the minimum term, if at all.
As to why the business model doesn't account for not having signed a contract at POS, is simple, Apple Stores want to sell iPhones. Apple do not have the legal right to provide contractual agreements for mobile phones. therefore if you needed to sign the contract when you bought the phone, then Apple couldn't sell them, only O2 CPW etc would be able to sell them. Apple don't want that.
As for the unlocking issue, they are going to have major issues, with OFCOM and the Small Claims Court. they already have huge class action lawsuits in the US, and look set to lose, HEAVILY. That's in a country with NO laws regarding locking of phones, unlike us who say that it is ILLEGAL to not provide an unlock code on request, so they are ven more screwed here.
Eventually someone will take them to the EU court, and they will get raked for it, and will end up having to provide unlocked handsets, or unlock codes on request in the EU. Which will actually MAKE them money ironically lol, as MANY more people would buy them if they weren't tied to SHOCKING contracts, from only one network.
As for the UK version at the moment it is FAR inferior to the 1.0.2 US version as you cannot load 3rd party apps, or use it with a current contract, or any network, so why buy one? Buy a US one for £200!!
Posted by Superluminova
problem is you can't buy a US on for £200???
Posted by Dogmann
@Super
I did tell you in the other thread this is what would happen with 02, anyway i will call OFCOM tomorrow and as long as i don't need to have bought the iPhone and pursue it further and see what happens.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-11-11 20:06 ]