Posted by vbayma
Now using all automatic except with ISO 100
Posted by vbayma
Now using all automatic except with ISO 400
Posted by vbayma
Now most IMPORTANT.... I try to take again with the twilight portrait mode and picture now is just fine!!! Diferent from the blurryed and yellowed onde that i showed before!! Not the best ever but better than the firts one. Until that my old K800i had better results...
Posted by obentou
Bullshit, I say.
First pic I don't understand why it would all be black for no reason.. hahaha, I really can't come to realize how people can turn these pictures so black! Your finger must have been near the flash, is all I can conclude...
Your other pictures seem fine. ISO100, not enough flash power to light up the room, that's why, and ISO400 was good enough for the room, but at the cost of sharpness.
[ This Message was edited by: obentou on 2007-12-27 03:07 ]
Posted by vbayma
NOW MOST IMPORTANT 2!!! I Take an ALL AUTOMATIC MODE again!! And no more black photos! The flash had worked just in time.... Again my old k800i had better results... But
look how crazy and untrustable this camera can be!
Posted by vbayma
Now folks forgetting the camera issue a bit...
What about the media center of the phone??? I use and M2 4GB with 2,5GB full of music and the media center looks like an old Pentium III runing on a Windows Vista... What about you folks??
I Use the bult in media manager (also very slow on My Core 2 Duo Vaio Notebook) software to transfer... with all the tags and cover files...
Posted by vbayma
On 2007-12-27 04:05:29, obentou wrote:
Bullshit, I say.
First pic I don't understand why it would all be black for no reason.. hahaha, I really can't come to realize how people can turn these pictures so black! Your finger must have been near the flash, is all I can conclude...
Your other pictures seem fine. ISO100, not enough flash power to light up the room, that's why, and ISO400 was good enough for the room, but at the cost of sharpness.
[ This Message was edited by: obentou on 2007-12-27 03:07 ]
No coments at all... I´m in the generation of camera phone since... T610, K700i, K750i, K800i and now K850i.... Taken more than 15,000 pics until now.. so i´m not exactly a newbie... I´m not the only one with this terrible bug... So a little more respect while jugging the others issue...
So Obentu if you dont have this problem with the photos good luck to you!!
Won the lotery... But I and other have so try to be more careful ok???
[ This Message was edited by: vbayma on 2007-12-27 03:20 ]
Posted by MadRabbit
Yesterday I tried to check via SEUS wheather there is new firmware (R1DA038, so called) available or not.
SE Update program said found new firmware. so I was excited and did upgrade it!
But after finish, I check software version which was still R1CA037...
I did upgrade R1CA037 month ago, but whay SEUS found new firmware although it was as same as mine... I don't understand at all...
Just curious, I think R1DA038 is W series firmware version, it isn't?
Posted by obentou
On 2007-12-27 04:19:34, vbayma wrote:
On 2007-12-27 04:05:29, obentou wrote:
Bullshit, I say.
First pic I don't understand why it would all be black for no reason.. hahaha, I really can't come to realize how people can turn these pictures so black! Your finger must have been near the flash, is all I can conclude...
Your other pictures seem fine. ISO100, not enough flash power to light up the room, that's why, and ISO400 was good enough for the room, but at the cost of sharpness.
[ This Message was edited by: obentou on 2007-12-27 03:07 ]
No coments at all... I´m in the generation of camera phone since... T610, K700i, K750i, K800i and now K850i.... Taken more than 15,000 pics until now.. so i´m not exactly a newbie... I´m not the only one with this terrible bug... So a little more respect while jugging the others issue...
So Obentu if you dont have this problem with the photos good luck to you!!
Won the lotery... But I and other have so try to be more careful ok???
[ This Message was edited by: vbayma on 2007-12-27 03:20 ]
Hmm well sorry, I didn't mean to make you angry or anything.. just that I find it frustrating that other people are experiencing the issue when I am not... so I am having mixed emotions as to whether people are just purely complaining from their stupidity or are actually experiencing real problems.
I guess you've been in the camera phone stage longer than me, but that's irrelevant, since we all know how to hold the K850i to take a picture.
I suppose I have been lucky to score 2 K850i's that haven't had any camera issues. Perhaps you can tell us your K850i manufacture date and we can give some insight into your problem.
Posted by darrengf
Well i think people are now seeing that the camera on the K850 does take poor shots when inside the building. Out side the phone is fine.
And the black photo is what i get, I can get the phone to take the same black pic when you leave on auto.
And before people say that i hold the phone funny etc, I dont its on a stand with the timer set, so no hands or anything in front of it.
The problem i beleive is that the AF lamp is in a poor place on the phone, of the af lamp is poor in quality and this i think is the main cause of the problem.
** Regarding the firmware update, Yes my phone connected to SEUS and said that there was a new firmware, downloaded and installed, however it still said i had R1CA037 when i switched the phone back on.
** Regarding the phone being slow, this is becuase the processor chip on the phone is from the K800i which only run the A100 software, the K850i is running the A200 software which is more labour intense. In simple terms,
The phone gained a new software with out upgrading the hardware to cope with it.
Like running Ms Vista on old Pent 3
I still hold out for newer firmware but im not holding any breath in them increasing the speed of the phone.
From me personal, the K850i is a big failure and i know from speaking to people and shops its a headache and a big big flop, shops dont want to sell it any more, there is very limited posters or media of the phone, where have all the adverts gone as well.
SE cant even get the SEUS correct which is poor and placing old Technology with new software is a no no.
people keep on saying that the phone takes perfect pics, It does and can, but not every time. im then told is a phone and not a camera. Ok then remove the Cybershot camera name from it and just say its a phone.
Dont sell it as a camera phone.
I am a SE loyal person and will buy another SE, but at present i really dont like the K850i and wish i never got rid of my K810.
The k850i is unrelaible and build quality of the phone is shocking to say the least. The plastics are cheap and it feels cheap when being used.
Many people would disagree and many people wont. But when mobile phone magazines dont give it a good write up either 3 out of 5 stars for a flagship model then i would ask questions at SE.
Posted by vortigern
Here's a close up of a pic of a painting I just took
The pic came out ok, but as you can see, the edges are fuzzy - this looks like jpg artifacts to me. It's in fine mode but maybe the problem lies in the compression?
I'm on 038 and haven't taken a dark shot since updating.
....and why is bluetooth missed off the send menu after you've just taken a pic- twas the same with my old w800.
I agree that it's a phone with camera so not too fussed if the pics aren't the best- as long as I don't get corrupt SMSes and have to reset again then I'll be happy- missing messages and not knowing could be disasterous and if it gets unreliable that I can't trust it to do that then I'll start to use something else!
Posted by tutarchiv
Here´s two pictures from me with i tested the macro function
All Automatical an Focus "Macro"
Now the Same with Spot Focus ?
an here any samples from me
All with the R1CA037 Firmeware
Posted by vbayma
On 2007-12-27 05:57:21, obentou wrote:
On 2007-12-27 04:19:34, vbayma wrote:
On 2007-12-27 04:05:29, obentou wrote:
Bullshit, I say.
First pic I don't understand why it would all be black for no reason.. hahaha, I really can't come to realize how people can turn these pictures so black! Your finger must have been near the flash, is all I can conclude...
Your other pictures seem fine. ISO100, not enough flash power to light up the room, that's why, and ISO400 was good enough for the room, but at the cost of sharpness.
[ This Message was edited by: obentou on 2007-12-27 03:07 ]
No coments at all... I´m in the generation of camera phone since... T610, K700i, K750i, K800i and now K850i.... Taken more than 15,000 pics until now.. so i´m not exactly a newbie... I´m not the only one with this terrible bug... So a little more respect while jugging the others issue...
So Obentu if you dont have this problem with the photos good luck to you!!
Won the lotery... But I and other have so try to be more careful ok???
[ This Message was edited by: vbayma on 2007-12-27 03:20 ]
Hmm well sorry, I didn't mean to make you angry or anything.. just that I find it frustrating that other people are experiencing the issue when I am not... so I am having mixed emotions as to whether people are just purely complaining from their stupidity or are actually experiencing real problems.
I guess you've been in the camera phone stage longer than me, but that's irrelevant, since we all know how to hold the K850i to take a picture.
I suppose I have been lucky to score 2 K850i's that haven't had any camera issues. Perhaps you can tell us your K850i manufacture date and we can give some insight into your problem.
Ok I Understand you, is really dificult to belive, but unfortnally its does happen... I wish where you... My k850i makes me embaraccing when take pictures...indoors...
by the way my date of build is W42 2007
Posted by darrengf
I beleive you, I have started to use spot focus my self and noticed that the phone behaves very differently.
Still more testing to be done though
Posted by Krzysiecw
obentou you`re not alone with no dark pictures ... i`ve made a lot of pic with this phone and i`m not newbie as well and a had only one dark picture but only when i tried to test camera with finger on lihgt sensor ... in any other situation pictures form my K850i were grat for me ... because this is only phone and the optic isn`t as good as digital camera optic ... so it is very silly for me to compare photos of k850i and f.ex. W5 camera ... So maybe lats compare one more time those stuff and ops the camera don`t have a phone module ? so k850i is better
Of course i`dont want to get angry with anybody but let`s make realistic compare not with almost pro digital camera 
One more thing ... what is your produce date of phone ? i mean thos people with dark pictures problem) my is 07W47 and how i remember your obentou as well ... but what about the others ?
[ This Message was edited by: Krzysiecw on 2007-12-27 12:21 ]
Posted by larry 68
can you remind me how/Where to check what build date it is and I will look ?
Posted by Krzysiecw
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=157121&start=342
Posted by larry 68
Thanks
well mine says 07W41
Is this an early make ?
Posted by Krzysiecw
how i see you and darrengf have the same date of product and both have problem with dark picture ... strange ... isn`t it ? how i can see a lot of problems dissapear in phones that are made W47 and later ...
[ This Message was edited by: Krzysiecw on 2007-12-27 13:12 ]
Posted by vbayma
On 2007-12-27 14:11:36, Krzysiecw wrote:
how i see you and darrengf have the same date of product and both have problem with dark picture ... strange ... isn`t it ? how i can see a lot of problems dissapear in phones that are made W47 and later ...
[ This Message was edited by: Krzysiecw on 2007-12-27 13:12 ]
Mine also is before W47. I'm 07W42 and have the same problens
Posted by Krzysiecw
So my theory is getting to be right , unfortunetly :/
Posted by darrengf
I have had 5 K850i
W39 x1
W41 x2
W44 x1
W47 x1
I can prodcue dark pics on them all very easy, dont have to do or change anything to get a dark pic. It comes natural with the phone !!
My latest is W47 which still produces dark pics
I know that SE are aware of the dark pics, it was fed back to the Director at SE. He was shown what the phone took and how dark the pics were.
The new firmware has a major improvement on the camera darkness, but i dont think it will ever be perfect.
Current version on R1CA029-037 is 2.9
on New R1DA038 the camera version is now 3.4
The AF lamp is poor or in the wrong place ?
[ This Message was edited by: darrengf on 2007-12-27 13:36 ]
Posted by Duran
ye its weird because i've made 0 dark pictures with the 037 firmware (only when putting my finger infront of the lens/light sensor)
Posted by darrengf
You can turn the phone round and take a pic of your self with the lights on and on occasions the pic can come out black.
Take it in room at certain lightening levels and again it can come out black.
Doesnt happen all the time
Posted by tai020381
Guys guys,for those of you who had taken indoor dark pictures in auto mode with Flash in auto mode,turn your phone to the camera side. Look at the flash part. There is an LED lamp below the flash. AND beside the LED lamp, it is the light sensor. The light sensor is ULTRA sensitive.
If you hold your phone with your fingers covering the sensor, it will not sense any light, thus will send signal to the phone to program a weak flash.(It is just like telling the camera " I sense very little light, so it means the object I want to take is very close to me. So I do not want to overexpose my pictures. Program a weak flash for the object.")
If you hold your phone with fingers away from the sensor COMPLETELY (holding it like the picture illustrated in the leaflet in your phone package)
the phone sensor will sense more light, thus telling the phone to program a stronger flash to brighten up the area). Holding your phone even with your fingers away from the light sensor by 1 cm will affect the flash output. The best is to hold your phone the way as illustrated in the leaflet.
You might want to do an experiment. Cover your phone's light sensor and take a picure with Flash enabled in a dark room. Observe the Flash power output. Do not delete the photo. Then hold your phone like you always hold a conventional point and shoot camera(wrapping your right hand around the camera, leaving about 1 cm away from light sensor) shoot at the same spot,observe the flash power output and save the picture. Finally, hold your camera as the leaflet illustrated. Take the same spot again. Now observe the flash power output again. This time the flash will work like a normal digital camera flash. Save the picture. Now compare all photos on your computer screen.
If the last picture still turns out dark, get your phone serviced. If not, then the problem lies in the way you hold your camera.
Posted by vortigern
Mine's on W41 and can only get it to take dark pics if my finger extends to that side of the phone... I don't need to cover the sensor but if your finger overhangs the edge then the focuslight and flash reflect off your finger and that seems to be enough to screw up the metering.
Posted by Duran
On 2007-12-27 14:42:22, darrengf wrote:
You can turn the phone round and take a pic of your self with the lights on and on occasions the pic can come out black.
Take it in room at certain lightening levels and again it can come out black.
Doesnt happen all the time
well im currently on DSC00499.JPG and still havent seen 1 dark picture
Posted by Krzysiecw
Maybe one more solution ... Look at your sensor .. is it clean ? or dirty ? Maybe your sensors are dirty and they sometimes detect some more light sometimes less light ... Maybe clean your sensor ? I do it with ear stick
[ This Message was edited by: Krzysiecw on 2007-12-27 14:06 ]
Posted by vbayma
***tai020381 and Krzysiecw I really apreciate your help...
but this isn't the problem... the way i hold the phone is really correct, my fingers stay away from the light sensor, and it isn't dirty at all...
I usually hold the phone with only 2 fingers. The index on the top and the thumb on the bottom...
***darrengf Like i showed before.
First i taked a pic with in all normal and came out totally black...
First i take a pic in the twilight portrait and came totally yeloow and blurried and dark...
The second time both shots went fine...
Posted by darrengf
@vbayma Yep i agree.
The sensor is very clean, infact I took the phone out of the box with gloves on (this is true) switched the phone on, took the plastic covering of the back and took the photo. the photo came out dark, then took a few more and then it took the photo fine.
I then took my gloves up and greased all the phone with my hands.
Results were the same, I could still get a dark pic.
Sorry people
The af lamp is either faulty, or poor in design. possible poor in quality and Im not hoping for a fix with firmware either.
** what has really angered me tho is that Sony make Fantastic cameras and the K800 / K810 cameras are much better that the K850i in doors.
So what has gone wrong with the k850. Different design team or did they make the phone on the cheap as to me this is how i think its been done.
They have used the simular chips to the K800 design and same processor, so nothing expensive there. Screen is slightly bigger and better, but again not much in cost there. Plastics are cheap so no much there.
So please tell me where the moeny has gone?
The fault or bugs that are currenlty on the phone shouldnt even be there. So please tell me what has gone wrong with this phone.
Posted by obentou
Mm, the previous build date of my first phone was Week 37. The new one I have is Week 48. Had no problems with both in terms of the camera... but the first phone had a 2nd LED faulty as I pointed out earlier in the thread
, and this Week 48 phone seems to have its PCB leds uneven.
[ This Message was edited by: obentou on 2007-12-27 17:41 ]
Posted by Paco
I'm with you on this. So much talk about the camera, guess not enough people using the media player. So slow. And forget multi-tasking while listening to music. Just trying to send a text while listening to music is painful! This kind of thing seems unacceptable. Did no one at SE notice how horribly slow gets?
On 2007-12-27 04:12:46, vbayma wrote:
Now folks forgetting the camera issue a bit...
What about the media center of the phone??? I use and M2 4GB with 2,5GB full of music and the media center looks like an old Pentium III runing on a Windows Vista... What about you folks??
Posted by obentou
I did notice it and it is slow.
But the fact that I use my dedicated MP3 player to play music and hi-fi earphones I cannot stand using SE as a music player, simply because the quality of the music isn't up to par (I'm an audiophile, I admit
)
So yes, I just use the camera on the phone as well as its other features. I do notice the media player lags like hell when I'm browsing through the list of a couple of MP3's I just put on for the heck of it (say, around 12-13 songs?). Hopefully this will be addressed.
Posted by se_dude
hey ude..the audio quality at 320 kbps is not bad..i may go on to say that its great for a phone...i have an ipod...and when coupled with good headphones..the k850 beats it easily
Posted by obentou
Haha I would agree with you perhaps 2 years back, but now that my earphones are more expensive than my iPod Nano, I guess you get the point
Posted by heara
i hope in a few months we can mod our acoustics, little bit louder
Posted by gordonowusu
It seems MEGA BASS is not working on my K850. I don't feel any diference between Base and mega bass. My K750i is clearly noticable when megabase is on. Also i get distorted sound when stereo widening is on. I hope it is not hardware related. Should I reflash? Any advice? My is week 41 build.
Posted by 1889
Just to add to the mixer, my phone is week 45, the only problem I've discovered is the flash one. Not tried taking any outdoor pictures yet.
Also, whats this about holding the phone properly when taking a camera. I've got nothing with mine that tells me how to hold it. I'm assuming you hold it by the edge of the phone and not let any of your fingers get on the back of the phone?
Posted by vortigern
On 2007-12-27 19:49:42, obentou wrote:
Haha I would agree with you perhaps 2 years back, but now that my earphones are more expensive than my iPod Nano, I guess you get the point
Please tell me you don't plug those earphones into your ipod and just have the ipod to get dirt out of your shoes!
I just use the w880 earphones with my k850 - it's not as good as my w800 tho, but acceptable. I guess they had to put smaller components in to fit all the camera stuff too.
That said... it could be the music I listen to or my weird ears but I only tend to notice bad reproduction and not compression/bitrate as long as it's 128kbps mp3 or above.
@gordonowusu ... you probably need different headphones to notice the difference, but I agree that it's not as much of a difference than it made on my w800 - I was guessing that as I thought they hadn't put as good components in (like I mentionned above) that megabass would make it distort too much.
@1889 .. there was a piece of paper in with my phone with a diagram to show that you should hold it by the edges only - with your fingertips
[ This Message was edited by: vortigern on 2007-12-27 19:42 ]
Posted by gordonowusu
I use HBH-DS970 bluetooth handsfree and still no difference. I was thinking this is due to a faulty handset. Thanks for your quick response.
Posted by obentou
I am not sure what you are referring to.... I don't get the joke
Hmm, well I just discovered a weird behaviour with the camera... I put my finger on the hole beside the AF light on the camera, and the flash goes off with very little power, meaning it gives off a near-black photo. However if I block the hole with an object, say a thin piece of opaque material, the flash operates normally. The reason for this, I have absolutely no idea...
[ This Message was edited by: obentou on 2007-12-27 21:04 ]
Posted by iwantin
Just my 2cents,
The photos below show one with full auto flash settings (ie SE dark photo function
) and one with flash off (ie good pic). Both taken one after the other on a bright sunny day.
IMHO camera aperture on auto flash mode too small, it's like SE reversed the aperture settings for day and night photos such that flashed photos are too dark and non-flash photos are too bright.
Was also reading the manual last night and it actually officially states that the phone SHOULD be restarted everyday to reset the memory, reducing chances of lack of memory errors. With new long lasting batteries, when was the last time you guys restarted your phones?
Posted by capuera
hello,
it seems to be a firmware issue, not a hardware one because with a little trick I managed to take good photos in dark environment with auto settings. What I did was to use the autofocus, so I pushed the camera button half way down and then the camera focused and the green frame appeared...the trick is to stay 2-3 seconds in this position because the sensor should observe the dark...with this trick the picture is good...I think that the sensor is obstructed by the 3 led light just before the autofocus and he feels that it is enough light and is adjusting the settings in a wrong way...with this trick he has enough time to "see" that it is not light.
try and share your opinions...I made some pictures with this trick and all are OK now
Posted by vbayma
On 2007-12-27 22:32:35, negrescumari wrote:
hello,
it seems to be a firmware issue, not a hardware one because with a little trick I managed to take good photos in dark environment with auto settings. What I did was to use the autofocus, so I pushed the camera button half way down and then the camera focused and the green frame appeared...the trick is to stay 2-3 seconds in this position because the sensor should observe the dark...with this trick the picture is good...I think that the sensor is obstructed by the 3 led light just before the autofocus and he feels that it is enough light and is adjusting the settings in a wrong way...with this trick he has enough time to "see" that it is not light.
try and share your opinions...I made some pictures with this trick and all are OK now
Intersting... You have a point there.. gonna try and tell later...
Posted by obentou
On 2007-12-27 22:32:35, negrescumari wrote:
hello,
it seems to be a firmware issue, not a hardware one because with a little trick I managed to take good photos in dark environment with auto settings. What I did was to use the autofocus, so I pushed the camera button half way down and then the camera focused and the green frame appeared...the trick is to stay 2-3 seconds in this position because the sensor should observe the dark...with this trick the picture is good...I think that the sensor is obstructed by the 3 led light just before the autofocus and he feels that it is enough light and is adjusting the settings in a wrong way...with this trick he has enough time to "see" that it is not light.
try and share your opinions...I made some pictures with this trick and all are OK now
Hmm, if that is actually the problem, then that is perhaps why everyone is getting dark photos... I always have used this method to take pictures (ie. waiting for the green "OK" to take the picture by pressing half-shutter)... since this is what you do for digital cameras anyway... it's not like you just press the damn button to take the picture, might as well go back to your QCIF cell phone camera if you do that.
Hope you've actually identified the problem, so we can put this issue to rest
On the side note, if the update in Jan. doesn't solve everything or most issues by then, I will dump this phone for an N95... despite my hate for the S60 interface
[ This Message was edited by: obentou on 2007-12-27 22:13 ]
Posted by darrengf
Good Evening people, well i seem to have started a good conversation and im glad that it isnt just me and people have started to notice the same problem.
I have been reading the comments for most of the day and tried most of them as well, however i still get dark pics.
But i think we all should work for SE as there fault and test team. We have done a faster and much better job than there team has. We have identified the fault and are not far of a soloution. So SE any chance of a few jobs ?
What has also amazed me is that people have pure passion for the K850i and i total admire that.
Even though im negative currently about it, i still luv my phone and want the best from the phone now readig all these comments.
Now i have tried the keeping the button held down for longer which doesnt make any difference on my phone, comments from @ iwantin does make sense. I think that there is some role reversal of the picture taking. eg when in light the pic becomes dark and when in dark the pic is light.
So if SE are reading this we may have a soloution.
Turn the plans for the software the other way round and read the plans then back to front.
Posted by vbayma
Nice darreng...
It´s really seemns we´re all sad abou these bugs and using our best to try to understand... what happens to cause this... Haven´t seen so good discucion of the same object looong time ago...
I Pray for God that SE can really fix it. Because after all the K850i is an increlibe phone. I had compared with a friend of mine that have an N95 8GB. Dosen´t have flash only poor led (worse than K850´s one) photos seens sharp but with no colors...
Off course to dont cause fight i´m not comparing the phones... just about photo etc... Two really diferent phones...
And yes i had tried the tip of our friend about holding the button before snap... didin´t worked either...
Maybe K850i is the most buggy SE phone o ever seen but i have faith that will be a major update in January/Febuary and corret mos of the issues before... They had done this before...It´s doable...
Posted by br@dley
I think the camera issues are a combination of things:
- Flash doesn't sync all the time.
- Poor design - bad positioning of light sensor. It's a phone, and people hold it differently than a camera. eg. sometimes I want to take pics in portrait but that is guaranteed to obstruct the sensor.
ps. I don't use the autofocus light. I hold the camera properly. Still I get dark pics every so often. I think there is some merit to waiting a while before taking the photo. However, the software should force you to wait if it needs time to adjust to the light... ?
I think the over-all performance is a bigger issue though. The K850i.. the Windows Vista of phones !
Posted by darrengf
I dont know if people want to try the SEUS, As a few more people are now saying that the new firmware has been released.
R1DA038, and the camera ver 3.4 is an update from 2.9.
If people could feed back with the networks and branding if possible.
Posted by Xeneelk63
Just updated My O2 K850I
Current Software Version:
1200-4400
R1DA038
071207