Posted by Amras
On 2008-03-10 17:55:16, AbuBasim wrote:
On 2008-03-10 15:18:04, Amras wrote:
No, the jeep wasn't red. It's maroon -> dark brownish to purplish red. So it isn't red, nor purple.
The color in the pic is not purple, AbuBasim. In my monitor, the pic shows maroon. And the jeep was maroon as well. The pics show more purple tone anyway, but not so different from the original color since the jeep wasn't red either (the jeep's color is far from the red in the Red Sirion posted above).
Would it been something like this? Some quick adjustments with the hue map tool in PSP, the same I tried once on one of plankgatan's many McDonalds photos:
It's ABSOLUTELY not like that. And I'm 100000% sure!
I told you it's maroon. Not orange, nor red. The car color is not that bright. It's not bright red/orange or any bright color, it's rather dark red, or else I say it "maroon".
It's really, really awkward for me to see the jeep in orange like that - you know - coz it's not.
And I can prove you that the color you edited is wrong. Look at the "stop" sign in the middle of the lot. Your retouches make it become reddish orange. In fact, it's pinkish red, coz the painted flower design below the sign is supposed to be sweet and lovely as the concept of the mall (where the parking lot is where) should be. Look at the pic below.
Taken with K770, see the bottom left. Look at the sign. It's not orange at all. It's pinkish red. Look at the red color on the sign pic, then compare the red with the rest of the red colors on the top left/top right/bottom right pics.
The bottom left, the red color is paler isn't it? Why? Doesn't K770 always produce the best red? Why then the red color in the sign look paler compared to the rest in the pics? Coz it in fact is pinkish. Not red. So in this case, K770 isn't wrong. So is K850 in the picture I posted earlier.
The sign is pinkish red, not orange nor red nor reddish orange nor orangish red.
(BTW.. The sign is not exactly the same sign, but I assure you the mall only use two color: green and red. The green is light/fresh, but still got pastel feel. The red is pinkish, soft and sweet.)
Please consider that k770 pic above was taken when the weather is sunny in around January or so (in Indonesia it was sunny), and the k850 pic was taken yesterday, after some raining and when the sky is cloudy, make the pinkish red more "off" than when it's sunny.
If you don't believe me, just look at my post at K850/K810 sensor. You can see that K850 color reproduction is close to the one reproduced by my Canon digital camera.
I really don't mind to explain you anything. And after some experience, we all know that those cam phones doesn't reproduce 100% true color. Even K770 who came with a very great detailed and color reproduction in daylight time, it sometimes produces yellowish things. And many2 more (not only K770, also K750, K810, N82 etc etc). I admit that K850 red color reproduction isn't as good as K770's (for example) coz it simply IS not as good, but the difference is not that much either (in my case). For sure, not as much "as maroon to reddish orange".
So changing the color of the car that much? Is that really necessary? Really it's very awkward for me to see that Jeep become something that is really different to what it really is, AbuHasim.
I'm quite practical person and I'm here just to stand out my opinion only (which is coincidently sometimes similar with others' opinions). If the K850 produces worse red color, I just say it, YES it does produces worse red color than K770 (even than K750, I agree).
Why I said that? Coz I own both phones (and have owned K750, K800 etc etc) so I know. But how much different are they? I can say, not much. And aware that sometimes K850 takes washed out red color while sometimes K770 also takes very yellowish/orangish red color, so to speak wise, it's somewhat like a tie - in general speaking.
I have put some respect on you since the earlier K770 vs K810 thread coz I know that most of your words were true, and I agreed what you said on the topic. So when I explained this car color thing, I thought you would understand what I meant by "maroon". Really.. it's not any bright color, is dark. Dark red or should I say (again) "maroon = dark brownish to purplish red".
If there's any lack of tone, it's not yellowish tone (if you add yellow, the color will become orangish red/reddish orange, not darkish red). So if there's any lack of the tone, it will be the lack of brown tone. If you add slightly brown tone on the car color, I think it would be just perfect. But remember, the car color is rather dark, not as bright as you think.
Thanks.
_________________
---- tempat sapi-sapi ngumpul kebo...
[ This Message was edited by: Amras on 2008-03-10 21:06 ]
Posted by Duran
[ This Message was edited by: Duran on 2008-03-10 21:40 ]
Posted by aigaias
Donjuan i love your cat. i want one for myself.
Posted by davidsic
Posted by Radiux399
I think this picture perfectly describes the problem what most people have with the K850's image taking abilities. The colors always come out too cool, leaving the image looking somewhat lifeless. And it skews the colors in such a strange way that I can't even fix the colors using outside photo editing software.
Perhaps some of you can get around this problem by not using the auto mode and tinkering with the settings. But since most people take pics using auto, this is a disappointment. And since other SE phones like the K750/W800 line, as well as the K770/T650 also take great colors on auto, you'd think SE's flagship "cybershot" line would be able to.
Posted by Coquito
no comments...
_________________
I
k850i [ This Message was edited by: coquito on 2008-03-11 00:28 ]
Posted by plankgatan
sure the saturation is little thin, but hey, all
phones have (more or less) that. i use my settings/profiles/EV and nearly allways i get good colors.... so you can get thicker colors quite easy.
ps... think this pic still looks ok. use cloudy or daylight and stay away from direct sun-attacks... he he
pss. even k750, T650, K770 produce very very often bleached colors, so k850 is no exception
_________________
I
K850, W810 & T29
------------------------------------
____________________________________
(t610, t630, k700, k750, k800, k810)
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2008-03-11 00:43 ]
Posted by puestadelsol
Sharpness
Posted by Radiux399
On 2008-03-11 01:31:13, plankgatan wrote:
sure the saturation is little thin, but hey, all
phones have (more or less) that. i use my settings/profiles/EV and nearly allways i get good colors.... so you can get thicker colors quite easy.
ps... think this pic still looks ok. use cloudy or daylight and stay away from direct sun-attacks... he he
pss. even k750, T650, K770 produce very very often bleached colors, so k850 is no exception
I've taken several dozen pics with my T650i, and i've yet to find that it takes pictures with bleached colors. Blurry? Some. But never bleached.
And the problem isn't that the K850 has a lack of colors. But rather, the colors are just "wrong". I can't really describe it any better than that. But I think this comparison shot between the K850 and the N82 sums it up nicely.
N82
K850
The N82 might not be necessarily 100% true to life with its color representation, but I don't think anyone here can say that the K850's shot looks more attractive.
Anyway, I think the biggest disappointment with the K850 was that people were expecting it to be able to take similar quality pictures to another 5mp cam-phone that also happens to use a Sony sensor: the Imobile 902. Unfortunately, the 902 still happens to take much better shots in all aspects.
Posted by plankgatan
we could go on about this mather forever.
i can show you hundreds of blurry/crappy N82 pics
i can show you hundreds of blurry/crappy K850 pics...and so on and so on
but i can tell you one thing about N82... it stop produce good pictures as soon the sun goes away. it realy needs good sunshine to get this sharpness, which i mean is quite bad. a decent camera "should" be able to produce in all environments.
Posted by mib1800
On 2008-03-11 02:34:53, plankgatan wrote:
we could go on about this mather forever.
i can show you hundreds of blurry/crappy N82 pics
i can show you hundreds of blurry/crappy K850 pics...and so on and so on
but i can tell you one thing about N82... it stop produce good pictures as soon the sun goes away. it realy needs good sunshine to get this sharpness, which i mean is quite bad. a decent camera "should" be able to produce in all environments.
That is bull and you know it.
What is the point of talking when you can use your eyes to see. Just take a look at this latest cam shoot-out.
http://smape.com/en/reviews/s[....]meras_N82vsG800vsK850-rev.html
You can clearly see N82 beat the K850 in almost ALL situations even in low-light.
Posted by AbuBasim
On 2008-03-10 20:27:12, Amras wrote:
It's ABSOLUTELY not like that. And I'm 100000% sure!
I told you it's maroon. Not orange, nor red. The car color is not that bright. It's not bright red/orange or any bright color, it's rather dark red, or else I say it "maroon".
It's really, really awkward for me to see the jeep in orange like that - you know - coz it's not.
And I can prove you that the color you edited is wrong. Look at the "stop" sign in the middle of the lot. Your retouches make it become reddish orange.
It looks orange on your monitor? On mine it looks similar to Wikipedia's page on the color maroon, plain maroon - not rich nor bright. Someone needs to calibrate his/her monitor, and it could of course be me but so far when I have been looking at my i-mobile 902 shots, these have been very close in color on my monitor as to what I saw when I took the shots.
Edit: Your monitor is not an old LCD monitor by any chance? The color on LCDs tend to become yellowish as they age, so red would look more like orange.
_________________
Snuck! It's ointment time! -- Mad Jack the Pirate
[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2008-03-11 04:23 ]
Posted by Amras
On 2008-03-11 05:18:58, AbuBasim wrote:
On 2008-03-10 20:27:12, Amras wrote:
It's ABSOLUTELY not like that. And I'm 100000% sure!
I told you it's maroon. Not orange, nor red. The car color is not that bright. It's not bright red/orange or any bright color, it's rather dark red, or else I say it "maroon".
It's really, really awkward for me to see the jeep in orange like that - you know - coz it's not.
And I can prove you that the color you edited is wrong. Look at the "stop" sign in the middle of the lot. Your retouches make it become reddish orange.
It looks orange on your monitor? On mine it looks similar to Wikipedia's page on the color maroon, plain maroon - not rich nor bright. Someone needs to calibrate his/her monitor, and it could of course be me but so far when I have been looking at my i-mobile 902 shots, these have been very close in color on my monitor as to what I saw when I took the shots.
Edit: Your monitor is not an old LCD monitor by any chance? The color on LCDs tend to become yellowish as they age, so red would look more like orange.
_________________
Snuck! It's ointment time! -- Mad Jack the Pirate
[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2008-03-11 04:23 ]
I didn't say orange, I said reddish orange/orangish red. My monitor is not wrong. The wikipedia's maroon also is shown maroon here (and of course, not rich maroon).
My monitor is one year old, it's 17" LG Flatron T730SH so I think I got the color's right.
Look AbuBasim, your retouched car color is not maroonl.
1. Your retouch:
One of the brightest color: #B96658
One of the darkest color: #501108
2. Wikipedia's Maroon:
#800000
I don't know if you can tell the difference, but for me they are different.
Instead of maroon, for me, your retouch is more like burnt amber with a very little slight of burgundy. And the retouch makes the car look metallic with a light nuance of color on the car's top side, it's like there's slightly a mahogany tone on it. There's no purple nuance in your retouch which I think the most important element to determine the right color of the car.
Once again, I think my monitor shows the color just right. The wikipedia's Maroon is exactly what was on my mind all this time, and the monitor shows it right.
So I think is there any chance that your monitor setting has too much blue on it? My monitor is not the only one to have the chance of wrong setting, isn't it? 
_________________
---- tempat sapi-sapi ngumpul kebo...
[ This Message was edited by: Amras on 2008-03-11 05:30 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Amras on 2008-03-11 05:36 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Amras on 2008-03-11 05:46 ]
Posted by Amras
On 2008-03-11 04:03:42, mib1800 wrote:
On 2008-03-11 02:34:53, plankgatan wrote:
we could go on about this mather forever.
i can show you hundreds of blurry/crappy N82 pics
i can show you hundreds of blurry/crappy K850 pics...and so on and so on
but i can tell you one thing about N82... it stop produce good pictures as soon the sun goes away. it realy needs good sunshine to get this sharpness, which i mean is quite bad. a decent camera "should" be able to produce in all environments.
That is bull and you know it.
What is the point of talking when you can use your eyes to see. Just take a look at this latest cam shoot-out.
http://smape.com/en/reviews/s[....]meras_N82vsG800vsK850-rev.html
You can clearly see N82 beat the K850 in almost ALL situations even in low-light.
I can take much better pics with my K850.
But don't get me wrong, I always think that N82 is better than K850. And still think the same way. Coz N82 simply is.
The point is.. I just feel that I can take better pics than the K850's pics taken for the review. Really.
Anyway.. why a review always uses the auto settings? Really don't get it. You have many many possibilities of settings with your camera, and you just use the auto settings? Isn't it a waste? For me, it's much wiser to use each camera's best setting. With that, people who read will know what the maximum capability of each device is, then the review isn't biased.
Posted by Topscooby
On 2008-03-09 20:31:50, DonJuan wrote:
whats tunning??
here my cat
That cat is so pretty...whats her name?
Posted by Luci'sPower
Posted by AbuBasim
On 2008-03-11 06:23:54, Amras wrote:
On 2008-03-10 20:27:12, Amras wrote:
It's really, really awkward for me to see the jeep in orange like that - you know - coz it's not.
I didn't say orange, I said reddish orange/orangish red.
Yes, you did!
See above quote from your previous post.
So I think is there any chance that your monitor setting has too much blue on it? My monitor is not the only one to have the chance of wrong setting, isn't it?
Perhaps. I'm using an ACER AL1914 monitor at home. It's a little more than a year old. At work right now, I'm using an old IBM T41 laptop, which is more than three years old. Although the laptop is not very bright, it hasn't started showing that yellowish tone yet.
[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2008-03-11 07:58 ]
Posted by iqmaster158
Topscooby ..i guess its Titch
according to photo name )
Posted by Duran
@plank, k850 can't take pictures with no sun either.
I took 3 shots on all AUTO & CLOUDY, hold them as still as i could..but all have major blur
And i;m not saying my k750 could pull it off, or a k800..but the k850 certainly isn't any better..which is a disappointment IMO!
Posted by plankgatan
On 2008-03-11 04:03:42, mib1800 wrote:
On 2008-03-11 02:34:53, plankgatan wrote:
we could go on about this mather forever.
i can show you hundreds of blurry/crappy N82 pics
i can show you hundreds of blurry/crappy K850 pics...and so on and so on
but i can tell you one thing about N82... it stop produce good pictures as soon the sun goes away. it realy needs good sunshine to get this sharpness, which i mean is quite bad. a decent camera "should" be able to produce in all environments.
That is bull and you know it.
What is the point of talking when you can use your eyes to see. Just take a look at this latest cam shoot-out.
http://smape.com/en/reviews/s[....]meras_N82vsG800vsK850-rev.html
You can clearly see N82 beat the K850 in almost ALL situations even in low-light.
????
whatever.... nearly all N82 pics ive seen on Flickr.com WHO IS TAKEN IN CLOUDY WEATHER IS BLURRY....
K850 handle low light better.... end of story
Duran... yes it can, (learn your camera better and you will get better sharpness even in cloudy weather... if i and many other people can, you also can)
and second... this landscape pics is ridiculus blurry.. (it looks like T630 or something...he he he)
Luci... you one of the best
K850 rules soooo much
super sharp with super perfect colors
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2008-03-11 11:33 ]
Posted by Luci'sPower
well Duran i have no problem with a cloudy weather........
[ This Message was edited by: Luci'sPower on 2008-03-11 10:39 ]
Posted by DarKMaGiCiaN
On 2008-03-11 11:07:20, Duran wrote:
@plank, k850 can't take pictures with no sun either.
I took 3 shots on all AUTO & CLOUDY, hold them as still as i could..but all have major blur
And i;m not saying my k750 could pull it off, or a k800..but the k850 certainly isn't any better..which is a disappointment IMO!
if this happen to me I switch the BestPic ON and that solve the problem ^_^
Posted by DarKMaGiCiaN
On 2008-03-10 17:55:16, AbuBasim wrote:
On 2008-03-10 15:18:04, Amras wrote:
No, the jeep wasn't red. It's maroon -> dark brownish to purplish red. So it isn't red, nor purple.
The color in the pic is not purple, AbuBasim. In my monitor, the pic shows maroon. And the jeep was maroon as well. The pics show more purple tone anyway, but not so different from the original color since the jeep wasn't red either (the jeep's color is far from the red in the Red Sirion posted above).
Would it been something like this? Some quick adjustments with the hue map tool in PSP, the same I tried once on one of plankgatan's many McDonalds photos:
ابو باسم هاللون يذكرني بالمورانو و الرنج السبورت ^_^
و هاللون ما يركب على هذي السياره هههههههههه
Posted by AbuBasim
On 2008-03-11 11:56:27, DarKMaGiCiaN wrote:
ابو باسم هاللون يذكرني بالمورانو و الرنج السبورت ^_^
و هاللون ما يركب على هذي السياره هههههههههه
Sorry boss, I am part of the majority of us Muslims that actually do not understand Arabic.
Posted by Amras
On 2008-03-11 08:57:57, AbuBasim wrote:
On 2008-03-11 06:23:54, Amras wrote:
On 2008-03-10 20:27:12, Amras wrote:
It's really, really awkward for me to see the jeep in orange like that - you know - coz it's not.
I didn't say orange, I said reddish orange/orangish red.
Yes, you did!
See above quote from your previous post.
So I think is there any chance that your monitor setting has too much blue on it? My monitor is not the only one to have the chance of wrong setting, isn't it?
Perhaps. I'm using an ACER AL1914 monitor at home. It's a little more than a year old. At work right now, I'm using an old IBM T41 laptop, which is more than three years old. Although the laptop is not very bright, it hasn't started showing that yellowish tone yet.
[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2008-03-11 07:58 ]
Then it's my mistake then, AbuBasim. I didn't remember I said orange even if I really did. Sorry then.
BTW.. I really think how to explain the red color reproduction of my K850 all this day. I captured a lot of red objects but still don't know how to show you that the K850 reproduction is quite similar. I almost want to send you my things via airmail so you can see with your eyes. Haha.
But anyway, I think I've figured out how to really explain this. Just see this:
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=166638
Hope it helps.
Ah anyway.. this is a new pic. Taken hours ago.
full-res: http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/viewphotos.php?pid=10349
And btw.. it's not pinkish.
It's just the color of the flower.
_________________
---- tempat sapi-sapi ngumpul kebo...
[ This Message was edited by: Amras on 2008-03-11 11:29 ]
Posted by Raiderski
What is the point of talking when you can use your eyes to see. Just take a look at this latest cam shoot-out.
http://smape.com/en/reviews/s[....]meras_N82vsG800vsK850-rev.html
You can clearly see N82 beat the K850 in almost ALL situations even in low-light.
i took first shot (girl face) and compared them from technical point of view
N82: exposure time is 1/30s with ISO160
K850: exposure time is 1/250s with ISO200
now you know why N82 shot looks much better than K850 shot - exposure time is much longer (x8). in K850 camdriver those values can be easily corrected, of course if access to FS will be possible
Posted by plankgatan
well well. i realy give a shit about N82 when K850 can produce pics like this.
(this is good enough for me
N82 is big & ugly
K850 is small & beatiful....hhhhmmm, tuff choice.
_________________
I
K850, 
W810 & 
T29
------------------------------------
____________________________________
(t610, t630, k700, k750, k800, k810)
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2008-03-11 11:40 ]
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
On 2008-03-11 12:36:00, plankgatan wrote:
N82 is big & ugly
K850 is small & beatiful....hhhhmmm, tuff choice.
I'd take a K850i over an N82 any day, but I can't agree that the K850i is small. Its a brick! Honestly though, they're camera phones. Choose the one you like.
Posted by plankgatan
hhmmmm..
N82
112 x 50.2 x 17.3 mm
k850
102 x 48 x 17 mm
N82 is BIG & UglY
K850 is small[er] & beatiful.... he he he
_________________
I
K850, W810 & T29
------------------------------------
____________________________________
(t610, t630, k700, k750, k800, k810)
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2008-03-11 11:56 ]
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Hahaha, smaller... Ok, now I can agree with you!
Posted by Amras
Design and model is something that is really relative.
Here is more pic from my K850. Taken hours ago.
Oh btw.. if you see some blur on the green flower, it's intentional. Focus is on the red flower on the background.
Can't upload the original pic. My credit in Esato is all used today.
Posted by DarKMaGiCiaN
@AbuBasim
sorry I thought that you are from Oman ^_^ ( NICE TO MEET YOU )
any way I said that the color of the car remind my of the Range Rover sport
@Amras
red color is much better now - with the new FW - but it can be improve ^_^ waitting for that in next FW for waitting for the FS hack
@Raiderski
Before W800i
Now K800i
Future I hope to see you with K850i
@All
new Pic
Posted by aremaboy
This is a snap shot of a dragon fly resting on a leaf in front of my house..
Posted by aremaboy
Still in front of my house, I found this red flower. I don't know what it is called.
Posted by aremaboy
Have you ever been to Indonesia and taste this sweet tropical fruit called "Rambutan"?
Posted by Amras
On 2008-03-11 13:19:17, DarKMaGiCiaN wrote:
@AbuBasim
sorry I thought that you are from Oman ^_^ ( NICE TO MEET YOU )
any way I said that the color of the car remind my of the Range Rover sport
@Amras
red color is much better now - with the new FW - but it can be improve ^_^ waitting for that in next FW for waitting for the FS hack
Yes, it still can be improved of course. Can't wait either.
Anyway.. is that K750 for me? Haha.
I will gladly accept that. ^^
Posted by aremaboy
My beloved nephew...
Posted by aremaboy
Another dragonfly snapshot...
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Dragonflies are creepy.
Nice crisp shots though!
Posted by aremaboy
My local newspaper...
Posted by Amras
On 2008-03-11 13:52:44, aremaboy wrote:
Another dragonfly snapshot...
It's great!
Posted by -PERFECT-
By pperfectt, shot with K850i at 2008-03-11
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5254/dsc01615zy5.jpg
By PPERFECTT at 2008-03-11
Posted by plankgatan
and some people say K850 take bad pictures... ha ha ha.
this landscape-pic is awesome, great sharpness & colors.
which settings did you use ???
_________________
I
K850, W810 & T29
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____________________________________
(t610, t630, k700, k750, k800, k810)
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2008-03-11 18:38 ]
Posted by -PERFECT-
Document, cloudy, -0.7
Posted by Duran
I agree..
Any post processing?
No full version of the landscape?
Posted by plankgatan
stabilzer OFF .......R1EA031 yes ?????
Posted by karos
Posted by -PERFECT-
One notch in color balance (photodj), this is another pic with ev -1.0 no edited (the colors are very similar)
My fw. is 038 with stabilizer off
By pperfectt, shot with K850i at 2008-03-11
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1185/dsc01610lp7.jpg
Posted by hgautam
@aremaboy
Can you please post the Dragonfly pic in original resolution...
It's just great!!!
Posted by plankgatan
Perfect... this must be the best landscape picture all time by k850.... it blows everything away
it really looks like digi cam quality.
ps... whats happend to K850... all pictures just looks better and better
_________________
I
K850, W810 & T29
------------------------------------
____________________________________
(t610, t630, k700, k750, k800, k810)
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2008-03-11 20:01 ]