Posted by plankgatan
k850 have a tiny flash, but still amazing...(the light sensor do a great job)
no flash...............mathematics all day long.
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@astdave....buy one of this...fits perfect..(and you dont have to worry about scratches)
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I
k850i, 
w810i & 
T28
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-10-15 19:24 ]
Posted by jdthegr8kd
@plankgatan
nice pics mate, keep still posting.
@all
those who are not satisfied with sharpness, ISO and other settings, i want to tell u onething don't worry abt that, coz in future there are so many modders are waiting to mod cam drivers like what they are doing for K-series(K750,K800, K550 and K810) currently.
so definitely they will fulfill the K850 cam drawbacks.
Posted by DarKMaGiCiaN
On 2007-10-15 21:17:15, jdthegr8kd wrote:
@all
those who are not satisfied with sharpness, ISO and other settings, i want to tell u onething don't worry abt that, coz in future there are so many modders are waiting to mod cam drivers like what they are doing for K-series(K750,K800, K550 and K810) currently.
so definitely they will fulfill the K850 cam drawbacks.
HEHEH that what I'm waitting for ^_^
DarKMaGiCiaN 0.9 for K850
Posted by DarKMaGiCiaN
@plankgatan
I have nothing to say about your shots because the shots shows the phowrfull of the k850 ^_^ and how good you are in taking photos ^_^
[ This Message was edited by: DarKMaGiCiaN on 2007-10-15 20:46 ]
Posted by indup
macro
Posted by max_wedge
someone mention iso controls shutter speed, but that's not strictly true. ISO is a measure of the sensitivity of the cmos sensor to light. The higher the ISO the more senstive the sensor to light. When the iso is set high, the camera automatically chooses a higher shutter speed. This can be useful for night shots with movement.
Someone also mentioned there is no point in the manual iso setting because you only want to use the lowest iso possible - well that's wrong too! If you have no control over the iso, then the camera will sometimes choose a very high iso (in low light) which you don't want. If you can force the iso down to 100, then the camera will choose a slow shutter speed (instead of high iso) which means you have to hold the camera steady, but if you do you get a picture with less noise.
So the manual control of ISO is VERY important and a god send imho.
Posted by plankgatan
thats very true...i have allways use manual whitness balance on k810, etc, and now even better with both ISO and whitness.....(dont forgett the light sensor who "guide" your flash right)
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k850i, w810i & T28[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-10-16 00:53 ]
Posted by *Jojo*
@max - I am really at AWE
seeing how you make your ala-Eintein replies when it comes to camera-specs . . . . . are you a professional photographer by accident? Like those of who takes nude photo-models at Playboy 
I mean, you always give us details of how specific parts of the cam - works and functions . . . well honestly, I really don't MIND knowing those, coz I am just a POINT-and-SHOOT guy when it comes to usin' cams (camera-phones or digicams) . . . . 
!
Posted by plankgatan
one thing you should think about with k850, is to not hold your fingers over the light sensor (on the back).
i even took a picture on it, (the paper came with the box).......he he
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k850i, w810i & T28
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-10-16 01:41 ]
Posted by soane28
thats a rather arwkid place to put the light sensor
Posted by plankgatan
well, it dosent bother me...(i only point it out).
Posted by *Jojo*
I think this will ALL apply to ALL
camfone with this feature As I've seen that DEMO-pic in my P990 too !
Posted by plankgatan
the light sensor is doing a very good job....(when i shoot with my k810 in complete darkness (with flash of course), the pics dosent have the same sharpness and light.....
keep up the good work
...................
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k850i, w810i & T28
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-10-16 01:59 ]
Posted by rockerZ
@plankgatan
Good pictures of the leaves indeed.They really show the power and colors of the K850.
Though i still have to admit the photo that 'DarkMagician' had posted earlier was the best photo taken by a mobile phone i have seen in my life
Posted by razec
On 2007-10-16 02:11:02, plankgatan wrote:
one thing you should think about with k850, is to not hold your fingers over the light sensor (on the back).
i even took a picture on it, (the paper came with the box).......he he
_________________
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k850i, w810i & T28
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-10-16 01:41 ]
judging from the mineral glass cover that protects the autolens cover. this was probably the cause of overexposure on K850's cam lens clearly evident on GSMArena's camphone test vs N95. since this is just an ordinary scratch resistant glass without coating like we've seen in barrel type optical lens from digicams. this could cause lens flares and reflections that's why capturing objects with strong exposure to sunlight results to purple fringing or overexposure. so this was the design flaw of the phone. i suggest SE should make an accessory that protects the lens from lensflare or unwelcomed sun rays as seen on DSLR cameras
Posted by kjao
if the camera setting is not set to auto, then the light sensor should not come into play right? manual settings are...well, manual. it should fire off at whatever ISO it'se set at regardless of the amount of light. is this the same on the k850?
Posted by AbuBasim
Regarding ISO speed rating (aka film speed):
In traditional film cameras the ISO rating is a measure of how sensitive a particular type of film is. And typically lower ISO speeds would require more light but also higher quality pictures while the opposite is true for high ISO speed.
In digital cameras the ISO rating specifies how much the signal from the image sensor is amplified. Just as with film, high ISO speed means more sensitive to light but also the noise in the sensor output also gets amplified, i.e. noisier picture.
Posted by kjao
i see...thanks for the explanation.
it does seem a little bit of a hassle with the hand positions. it means the phone must be handled with both hands while taking a shot, doesn't it? (pls let's not start another flaming war about this, it's personal preference
)
i'm the sort who takes alot of impromtu shots...with my k750, the phone can be whipped out with one hand, shutter opened and shot taken. (eg while cycling)
from the experience of the k850 users, "one hand photography" is a tricky balance now, isn't it?
Posted by gola
On 2007-10-15 21:40:01, indup wrote:
macro
Posted by DarKMaGiCiaN
New Shots
^_^
Posted by Mizzle
Nice night shot!
Posted by masseur
my first couple of shots
out of my office window on this miserable London day
original size
my mid morning snack
original size
Posted by kristianm
On 2007-10-16 02:11:02, plankgatan wrote:
one thing you should think about with k850, is to not hold your fingers over the light sensor (on the back).
i even took a picture on it, (the paper came with the box).......he he
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k850i, w810i & T28
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-10-16 01:41 ]
The second picture doesn't even have the right hand covering the light sensor (I suppose it's that black dot beside the LED light and below the Xenon flash). So why is it wrong to hold it that way? Is the hand covering anything else in particular?
Posted by ericemel
Posted by ghostfreak
I love that picture ericemel - what were your camera settings for it?
Posted by kjao
fantastic shot of the toadstool
Posted by cmikilp
Posted by ericemel
On 2007-10-16 12:08:02, ghostfreak wrote:
I love that picture ericemel - what were your camera settings for it?
All auto except macro setting. Approx 10cm away
Posted by indup
[ This Message was edited by: indup on 2007-10-16 12:58 ]
Posted by goldenface
On 2007-10-16 11:48:14, ericemel wrote:
Great snap! Did you use the Auto-settings for this?
Posted by masseur
@goldenface... (don't just look at the pretty pictures
)
On 2007-10-16 13:05:49, ericemel wrote:
On 2007-10-16 12:08:02, ghostfreak wrote:
I love that picture ericemel - what were your camera settings for it?
All auto except macro setting. Approx 10cm away
_________________
Unless I'm very much mistaken...
reviews: i-mate V800 K700
[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2007-10-16 13:06 ]
Posted by goldenface
@masseur
Thats exactly what I was doing. I can actually read, and tie my own shoe-laces.
Posted by ghostfreak
So you're not just a Golden Face then
Posted by tai020381
Auto mode
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7451/dsc00199wj2.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7225/dsc00201cl5.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/491/dsc00203cx5.jpg
[ This Message was edited by: tai020381 on 2007-10-16 14:33 ]
Posted by tai020381
Yes, k850 does has the overexposure thing just like the k800. Still, this is currently the only picture I've taken which has overexposed. Reason still unknown. Perhaps some professionals here can guide?
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3517/dsc00197qv1.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5803/dsc00198zu7.jpg
The first picture taken full auto, second picture taken with EV set to -0.7. Just take note when you see the picture looking whitish before you take a snap. Readjust the exposure before you take!!
Posted by mongoose3800
I'm sorry, but I'm not one bit impressed with one shot I have seen from the K850. Sure, when shrunk down the photos look O.K. but so do photo's from any cheap low res camera. At full res K850 shots look very grainy. Even worse if you zoom in a little. At least it doesn't seem to suffer problems with anti-aliasing as badly as the K800. Every shot I've seen from the K850 look terrible at full res. What's the point of 5mp if the images look crap when viewed at full res. With more MP I expect better image quality at full res and the ability to zoom in to some degree. This clearly isn't the case. I know, some of you don't care about that - probably only because your justifying to yourself the purchase of the phone. But others do care about what images look like at full res. SE are actually claiming this phone will perform like a dedicated Digicam. What a load of rubbish. You would expect photos taken in full daylight to be pretty clear but even they appear grainy and over processed. Obviously there is only so much you can expect from a tiny Lens. I definately wont be making the same mistake of "ugrading" to a K850. I learnt my lesson with the K800 - it still bugs me to this day.
Posted by aledemo
hi,scuse me for the disturb..
can i ask to the luky man that have the k850 if he can take 2 or 3 photo with the flash?
please...
the power of the flash is the same of the k800?
i can take a picture whit the flash from 2 or 3 meters of the subject?
thank you
Posted by NightBlade
@mongoose:
The point of more megapixels is to have more detail when the picture is viewed at a lower resolutions.
Posted by Raaab
more megapixels does not increase the quality of a taken picture.
It just makes the image larger.
EDIT: Actually thats a crap description.
A pixel is a pixel. The defining point of quality is PPI, or pixels per inch. The more you shrink a picture, the higher the PPI, and the higher the resulting resolution/quality of the image.
With more recorded pixels (higher megapixel), you can shrink the image far less, and maintain a high PPI.
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raaab (+1,-0)
[ This Message was edited by: Raaab on 2007-10-16 16:08 ]
Posted by indup
Posted by Arne Anka
@mongoose3800
The pictures are indeed abit grany as on most camera phones I have seen. Some cam phones try to hide noise/grain by applying noise filtering, but in the process details are lost and the picture looks fuzzy. You can not add more pixles without increasing the size of the sensor as well and the sensors in most phone cams are to small for the pixle resolution they are made for.
But honestly, how many people looks at their photo albums with family and friends in full size (which don't even fit the screen) with a magnification glas as you seem to do ?
Not many I would say. Reduced size is how this kind of pictures should be viewd IMO.
I'm not saying your observation is wrong, just that you seem to use your cam phone in a wrong way sot to speak IMO.
Cheers
Arne
[ This Message was edited by: Arne Anka on 2007-10-16 16:10 ]
Posted by max_wedge
On 2007-10-16 16:33:05, mongoose3800 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm not one bit impressed with one shot I have seen from the K850. Sure, when shrunk down the photos look O.K. but so do photo's from any cheap low res camera. At full res K850 shots look very grainy. Even worse if you zoom in a little. At least it doesn't seem to suffer problems with anti-aliasing as badly as the K800. Every shot I've seen from the K850 look terrible at full res. What's the point of 5mp if the images look crap when viewed at full res. With more MP I expect better image quality at full res and the ability to zoom in to some degree. This clearly isn't the case. I know, some of you don't care about that - probably only because your justifying to yourself the purchase of the phone. But others do care about what images look like at full res. SE are actually claiming this phone will perform like a dedicated Digicam. What a load of rubbish. You would expect photos taken in full daylight to be pretty clear but even they appear grainy and over processed. Obviously there is only so much you can expect from a tiny Lens. I definately wont be making the same mistake of "ugrading" to a K850. I learnt my lesson with the K800 - it still bugs me to this day.
Well, I've not been disappointed with my K800 at all. Yes I do get an occasionally badly aliased picture, but the rest of the time I get pictures I'm very happy with (except where it's my own fault). The camera performs well for me, only flash pics are a little disappointing due to excess iso (mod driver offers an improvement in this).
I think if you have expectations of a camera phone being as good as an equivalent MP dedicated digicam you are going to be disappointed. The lenses and sensors are smaller by quite a bit compared to most digicams. However I've also seen many an ultra cheap digicam much worse than either K850 or N95 and even the K800. So atleast camera phones are maturing.
The fact is if you look at many of the images posted, while you may not be able to zoom in much, the images are more than suitable for display on a monitor or printing up to A3 in the case of 5MP, or 8x10 in the case of 3MP.
That's a good result for a camera that also has to accomodate the bulk of a mobile phone.
Posted by ericvert
mongoose3800 is right... you can buy a 50MP camera... if there is no better image quality with camera sensor enhancement... it's bulshit...
When I see the first K850 pictures, it doesn't seems to be a revolution compare to k800 or even K810 ...
Will not advice to buy this model...
Posted by max_wedge
but there is better image quality. If you resize a K850 photo to the same size as a K800 photo it is crisp and clear as if a high quality 3MP ccd camera took the picture. Therefore for a given image size the K850 has better detail and is clearer and has less noise.
Resize the K800 image to the size of a K750 image, and it becomes a high quality 2MP picture instead of an average 3MP.
Each successive camera is better than the previous.
In my view, most low to mid range digital cameras also have graininess or compression artifacts when viewed close up. Only high end cameras, and usually ccd cameras, have that nice smooth clear look without post processing.
Posted by plankgatan
On 2007-10-16 16:47:41, aledemo wrote:
hi,scuse me for the disturb..
can i ask to the luky man that have the k850 if he can take 2 or 3 photo with the flash?
please...
the power of the flash is the same of the k800?
i can take a picture whit the flash from 2 or 3 meters of the subject?
thank you
the flash works better on k850 compared to k810(k800)...no doubt about that. (when i had my k810, the pics became fairly bad when i used the flash in a larger area(room)...never happends with k850).
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guys guys...we talking about cell phone cameras here..(a tiny cell phone camera will NEVER be the same like a real camera.....so you can complain, compare what ever you want...im happy with k850 camera...think its doing a great job).
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I
k850i, w810i & T28
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-10-16 17:09 ]
Posted by aledemo
thank you plankgatan for the answer...
i think me too that the pics are better with the k850,because with the flash use iso 200,(k800 use iso 400)..
but the power is the same?
i can take a photo from 3 meters from the subject?
Posted by AbuBasim
On 2007-10-16 17:07:03, Arne Anka wrote:
@mongoose3800
The pictures are indeed abit grany as on most camera phones I have seen. Some cam phones try to hide noise/grain by applying noise filtering, but in the process details are lost and the picture looks fuzzy.
Actually, not only some but all CMOS-based camera phones. The other type of camera, DSLRs, where also CMOS sensors are used, the sensor is so large that the amount of noise is low enough not to require noise reduction. The DSLR sensor sizes start at APS-C while for example the K750i has a 1/2.7" sensor, and the P990i has an even smaller 1/3" sensor.
But honestly, how many people looks at their photo albums with family and friends in full size (which don't even fit the screen) with a magnification glas as you seem to do ?
Not many I would say. Reduced size is how this kind of pictures should be viewd IMO.
If you take a 5MP photo from the K850i and scale it down to 2MP the result is much better than what the K750i can produce. Does the K850i allow saving the photos directly in 2MP size?
Posted by Shuuro
My sincere question...with k850i is it truly possible to capture a picture of blue sky? can anyone please upload full size picture to http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/upload.php
Posted by indup
The first picture taken full auto, second picture taken with EV set to -0.7. Just take note when you see the picture looking whitish before you take a snap. Readjust the exposure before you take!!
whats EV and how do you change the settings to for eg. -0.7?
Posted by mongoose3800
On 2007-10-16 16:53:04, NightBlade wrote:
@mongoose:
The point of more megapixels is to have more detail when the picture is viewed at a lower resolutions.
Do you realise how stupid this statement is? What's the point of increasing MP to view at reduced size. Without a doubt in my mind, I could post a reduced picture taken by a very cheap 2/3mp camera and it would look GREAT. Just look at the K750/W800 pictures that have been posted in reduced size. They are just as good, if not better, than 3-5mp pictures. In It is my observation that the photo's taken by the most basic 2-3mp dedicated digicam will run rings around anything taken by the K850 or K800. My point is that Se claim that the camera on the K850 is worthy of a true digicam status. It's not and the shame is people expect it to be. I think it's false advertising. The only thing a camera on phone is good for is to take shots because your real digicam was elsewhere.
I would also like to point out that alot of people now take DVD's full of images to view on other peoples P.C.s/TV's. What's the point of 5 MP if it looks like crap on a large screen? All I can say is that a lot of you are easily pleased. In my books SE's claims are extremely exagerated and you could qualify for refund just by demonstrating the quality of a low end 3mp phone.
Please, anyone, proof me wrong. show me a full res image that would reall y leave someone wondering whether it was taken with a true digicam of camera phone.