Posted by Mizzle
I guess most of you know what an impact the thread at SE's developer forum had regarding the P990 & W950 firmwares. So how about doing something equal regarding the K850 and the video recording resolution?
Eldar has earlier on confirmed it being able to record in VGA, yet it's set at a maximum of QVGA by
IS THAT OK?
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[ This Message was edited by: thecoolsha on 2007-09-16 14:51 ]
[ This Message was edited by: thecoolsha on 2007-09-16 15:02 ]
Posted by goldenface
What speed 30fps recording at QVGA and 15fps at VGA?
Posted by Mizzle
Well, it was supposedly possible to record in VGA @ 30 fps. So it should be 30 fps, but imo 15 fps would be acceptable, too.
Posted by tai020381
The white paper already stated able to record video @ QVGA resolution. I guess SE will not amend that anymore although it has the ability to do that. Leave that to upcoming releases.
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2007-09-16 15:44:31, thecoolsha wrote:
I guess most of you knew what an impact the thread at SE's developer forum had regarding the P990 & W950 firmwares. So how about doing something equal regarding the K850 and the video recording resolution?
Eldar has earlier on confirmed it being able to record in VGA, yet it's set at a maximum of QVGA by
IS THAT OK?
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[ This Message was edited by: thecoolsha on 2007-09-16 14:51 ]
Sounds like an EXCELLENT idea!
Personally I'd love to have VGA recording @ 30fps; ONLY if the hardware was quite capable of doing so WITHOUT freezing the phone; or glitchs in the File Manager or Media Manager. I'd be satisfied with 24fps.
Posted by Mizzle
On 2007-09-16 15:56:17, tai020381 wrote:
The white paper already stated able to record video @ QVGA resolution. I guess SE will not amend that anymore although it has the ability to do that. Leave that to upcoming releases.
We could push upon them to enable it in an upcoming firmware release, just like the masses did with the UIQ firmwares.
On 2007-09-16 15:58:38, Prom1 wrote:
Sounds like an EXCELLENT idea!
Personally I'd love to have VGA recording @ 30fps; ONLY if the hardware was quite capable of doing so WITHOUT freezing the phone; or glitchs in the File Manager or Media Manager. I'd be satisfied with 24fps.
Yeah, who cares whether it's 24 fps or 30 fps. But I'm sure it could be implemented.
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[ This Message was edited by: thecoolsha on 2007-09-16 15:05 ]
Posted by Supa_Fly
Human eye can deal with 24fps as smooth motion where as the 15fps would be worse @ VGA resolution then in ciq resolution.
Posted by Mizzle
On 2007-09-16 16:20:14, Prom1 wrote:
Human eye can deal with 24fps as smooth motion where as the 15fps would be worse @ VGA resolution then in ciq resolution.
Still, I'm sure it can be modified.
Posted by Tsepz_GP
Maybe SE had already tried VGA @ 30FPS and found it not necessary for the K850.
What i would realy like is if the W960 did 30fps instead of 15fps
Posted by goldenface
Or maybe it is keeping the increased rate there for a more advanced version.
Posted by Dogmann
@GUCCI.011
That can't happen with the W960 as it's hardware isn't able to produce the results you want as it still has the same hardware as the P990 including the the Lite version of the Power VR MBX graphics chip and this is why it can't record 30fps VGA video.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-16 19:39 ]
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2007-09-16 17:44:35, goldenface wrote:
Or maybe it is keeping the increased rate there for a more advanced version.
Most likly, but they've been restricting us to lower resolutions, and 15fps on just about every model for years (save for the W900). With 5MP cam; it should be expected to be reasonable & needed by SE to allow 30fps (smooth with auto focus and anti-shake enabled)! I WANT IT now SE you B!&(* ! (that was for SE, btw).
Posted by Hurst
SE keeps VGA under wraps to release it on the facelift (ala k810). If you follow their strategy for the last 1.5 years, it is to hold back on products to use the upgrades in future products. It's cheaper than producing an n95 that's for sure.
Personally, I find it appalling and it's the reason why innovative companies like Apple mop the floor with dinosaurs who groupthink their profit paradigms.
Posted by cristiano
why only K850??
what about W910+W960?
at least they should make K850 VGA @30 fps and W960+W910 VGA @15 fps
K850 is not the only mobile with a camera
Posted by goldenface
On 2007-09-16 21:34:24, Prom1 wrote:
Most likely, but they've been restricting us to lower resolutions, and 15fps on just about every model for years (save for the W900). With 5MP cam; it should be expected to be reasonable & needed by SE to allow 30fps (smooth with auto focus and anti-shake enabled)! I WANT IT now SE you B!&(* ! (that was for SE, btw).
I know! What are they holding back for? The W900i was announced years ago and it still hasn't been bettered in some respects. May be they are waiting to launch a new range of phones with Improved Video but lots of peeps are getting sick of the wait. GRRRRrrrrr...!
Posted by SilveR.
Or get a real Digital Cam,.
How ever for some video rec very important, for me it's only a bonus..
Depend what the buyers wants
Posted by Mizzle
@christiano because K850 is capable of doing it. Don't know about the others.
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2007-09-16 22:10:09, cristiano wrote:
why only K850??
what about W910+W960?
at least they should make K850 VGA @30 fps and W960+W910 VGA @15 fps
K850 is not the only mobile with a camera
However, its the ONLY one with the MP to support the clarity at VGA resolution - without a dedicated mobile video card.
Like Goldenface said whats taking them soo long to release native VGA @ 30fps! rumored Video phone is NOT coming to other regions than Japan. Wait no longer should we!
another "get a real camera" post I'm gonna FREAK! sorry no offense to SilvR. Just that we rather carry 1 device that CAN take excellent photos. Most moments with fun outtings night escapades, or fun times with loved ones & family included are within a focal distance of 10 feet - usually, perfect for CamPhones or point & shoot. With resolutions increasing and lens quality improving we're going to see MORE of an overlap! Now with ISO control a whole new ballgame.
Posted by Dogmann
@thecoolsha
The K850 can do it because to date when released it will be the most advanced and highly specified SE device. It wipes the floor with the specs found in it's so called Flagship smart phones. That unfortunately still rely on the same hardware that was announced for the P990, this is whilst others say there is nothing wrong with the hardware found in these devices i strongly disagree and also think they are in need of an urgent update to far newer processors and graphics so they can give things like HSDPA and proper video recording along with all the other benefits that come with them.
This why however great looking these new devices are they are just re packaged old tech nothing new or really ground breaking but they could be just so much more. They could and should IMO be up there with the new TYTN and E90 that is what i expected of SE to deliver and in the past would of.
Since UIQ3 SE have stagnated they only new thing they added to their smart phones was 128 Ram and only then because that was so badly needed to achieve stability lets not kid ourselves it's any different.
How ever much even Masseur likes his P1 just ask him which device he reaches for when he wants to access the web? Even though he wasn't that keen on the N95 in the end he used it with his N770 as modem as the speed difference is just so great. Now of course he has his TYTN that appears to be his device of choice.
If your an SE fan or not you have to realise this is there current greatest weakness along with lousy customer support. Even Motorola in it's fist UIQ3 device gave it a better processor and graphics plus a 16million colour screen and HSDPA even non smart phones are getting HSDPA but not SE's flagship devices.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-17 00:14 ]
Posted by mib1800
I just dont buy the idea that SE purposely disable the vga@30fps video record in K850. What's the point of that? It is not like K850 would cannibalise another SE premium handycam phone since SE DONT have one yet.
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2007-09-17 01:13:55, Dogmann wrote:
If your an SE fan or not you have to realise this is there current greatest weakness along with lousy customer support. Even Motorola in it's fist UIQ3 device gave it a better processor and graphics plus a 16million colour screen and HSDPA even non smart phones are getting HSDPA but not SE's flagship devices.
Marc
True but remember Motorola has MUCH more experience in UIQ & Symbian than SE does. Sad but true. Since Ericsson & SE have used Symbian & UIQ for years longer than Motorola > and Moto did release MORE devices than SE & Ericsson combined until recently. However, you cannot give Moto all the credit for the Z8 .... they consumed Sendo which had INCREDIBLE Symbian experience & knowledge in such a SHORT Time. Sendo was burned by M$ with licensing and marketing and wanted to show them up with the Sendo M or whatever that phone was.
However, the Z10 is rumored to be Z8's successor this fall. Hint no lime green highlights with a two toned black & grey/silver getup and its nice.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2007-09-17 03:27:13, mib1800 wrote:
I just dont buy the idea that SE purposely disable the vga@30fps video record in K850. What's the point of that? It is not like K850 would cannibalise another SE premium handycam phone since SE DONT have one yet.
I agree. All this hopefulness that K850 will record in vga is just a recipe for disappointment imho!
It's like the guys who thought they could make the K750 video record at qvga just because it was possible to specify those values in the camdriver0.dat file. They didn't notice that you could also specify 1600 by 1200! but of course no one would expect it to work at 2MP
so why expect it to work at qvga, when SE clearly state it's resolution is 3GP?
Same with K850. It is what it is.
Posted by Hurst
On 2007-09-17 03:27:13, mib1800 wrote:
I just dont buy the idea that SE purposely disable the vga@30fps video record in K850. What's the point of that? It is not like K850 would cannibalise another SE premium handycam phone since SE DONT have one yet.
How about this reason:
It's a lot cheaper for future R&D to taper your features added on rather than having to create new innovative solutions every product cycle.
For example, how will Nokia best the n95? They had to push hard to increase the screen size, add a bigger battery and more memory. n95 successor? Will cost a lot of r&d to make a better product. In the end, though, the consumer wins. Same goes for Apple.
SE on the other hand? Hold back, keep your r&d costs down and spend more on advertising/marketing ("cybershot" bs) to make up for the discrepancy. Different business model. The saavy consumer must make the cognizant decision.
Posted by de_construct
The fact that the K850i's still camera is better than the N95's is much more important. The N95 is a bit of a big beast that wont appeal to everyone (as much as everyone wants its features, few will put up with its size) I think maybe SE should have made the K850i look a lot less weird as it's meant to be SE's main candybar, filling the shoes of the K750i/T610.
What does bug me is that SE have not been brave enough to move the K850i over to UIQ3... Seeing as Moto have done so with the Sendo-designed Z8 and Z10 with its one-handed UIQ3... they could really have a go at Series60.
Posted by >500
afaik both the k850 and t650 could shoot vga@30fps in the labs, and both being of high quality... though it drained battery life and, as we all know about vga video, took up lots of memory.... battery life is obviously one reason why they did not use vga....
Posted by max_wedge
On 2007-09-17 08:08:23, de_construct wrote:
What does bug me is that SE have not been brave enough to move the K850i over to UIQ3... Seeing as Moto have done so with the Sendo-designed Z8 and Z10 with its one-handed UIQ3... they could really have a go at Series60.
the w960 is a good step in that direction, it's a designed for finger tap use, so you don't really need the stylus. It would be nice with a dpad atleast though, to make it a true one handed device. I would like to see the successor of the K850 be a UIQ device in similiar form factor to the W960, but with cybershot branding and camera and a keypad that includes a joystick or dpad.
Posted by cristiano
if you don't want the battery to finish early and you don't wan't the video to take big spaces of the memory than set it @QVGA no one make you to record at VGA if you don't want thies thing to happen
(i don't see nokia care about the battery in fact they have crap battery's but they record up to VGA)
if
didn't put VGA video recording in K850 than by the time they will use it other brand will reach VGA @120 fps
Posted by tai020381
I think QVGA is quite enough for a Handphone for me already. I owned a Digital camera which also records video at VGA resolution and I seldom use it, mostly only taking photographs. Also, did you guys notice that for our forum and other gadget forums the topic always state "Post your photos AND VIDEOS taken by your phones" where videos are almost non-existent in it.
Posted by Mizzle
I still think, that if it's possible, why not make it AVAILABLE for us.
Come on guys, I guess we'd all want this, so speak up and let
know about it!
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2007-09-17 14:08:36, max_wedge wrote:
On 2007-09-17 08:08:23, de_construct wrote:
What does bug me is that SE have not been brave enough to move the K850i over to UIQ3... Seeing as Moto have done so with the Sendo-designed Z8 and Z10 with its one-handed UIQ3... they could really have a go at Series60.
the w960 is a good step in that direction, it's a designed for finger tap use, so you don't really need the stylus. It would be nice with a dpad atleast though, to make it a true one handed device. I would like to see the successor of the K850 be a UIQ device in similiar form factor to the W960, but with cybershot branding and camera and a keypad that includes a joystick or dpad.
@de_construct; correction Sendo did NOT design the Z8; thats purely Motorola - but they DID have a hand in engineering & also in core-application design; as Motorola bought Sendo and kept many of their engineers.
@max_wedge; So you DO want Video @ VGA in the K850i - but I understand that you believe its just not possible. Personally I've been hammering about UIQ3 (1-handed) in so many threads for so long I'm getting nerved about SE not doing so in the K850i. I pray that its successor debuts in 6mths & even more powerful with UIQ3, a Dpad, and mobile video accelerator. SE is not using Glass lenses - from what I can tell - in their phones and there is so much MP's will do without a glass lense it'll begin to show subpar quality photos. Samsung, Nokia, LG have ALL partnered with Camera Lens maker co's & incorporated specific designs of lenses in their phones and the quality is getting MUCH better if not slightly better than what we've seen in the 2 reviews of pics from the K850i going head to head.
Does any1 have any facts of the platform & hardware used in the K850 sourced from SE??!
Posted by Aware
My challenge:
IF T650/K850 CAN RECORD in VGA/30 FPS - GET ME THAT FIRMWARE, I'll test it first hand, and report here AND Se-nse, AND M-R!
Otherwise, your talk is JUST THAT - TALK
FAR too many people chatting crap at the moment, with NO PROOF......and, as someone who puts his money where his mouth is, I for one am sick of it......
As soon as LG Viewty is out, SE will be THE ONLY manufacturer WITHOUT VGA recording capability. For the people who released W900(QVGA/30fps) in 2005(6 months before ANYONE ELSE), that's a shambles in my book......
Can't believe just how fast a manufacturer can go downhill, all for want of money......I think K850 release will teach SE a hard lesson though......
Posted by mario2004
The n95 is one of the best (if not the best) camera quality a cellphone does have as of today. SE suffers from a bad plastic lens. 5, 7 or even 10 Mp is not going to help much. Also to be able to record vga at 30fps a cellphone needs lots of 'horse power' which clearly non of the SE models have. On the other hand I don't think the members in here should compare the N95 to any of the Se cells. Keep in mind, the manufacturer of the N95 is bigger then next 3 cell companies (se included) counted together ! And they had lots of mishaps before the 'home run'. For now the most important thing is to keep nokia at bay in market share because if they are going to get 50%+, new rules come into play. I hate the idea of a second Microsoft. We all stand to loose !
Posted by Dogmann
@>500
I really don't know where you got your information from but VGA Video recording is dependant on having the right graphics chip not just how fast or powerful the processor is. Neither of these two devices have a graphics chip able to do this and that is why how ever much any of you want it. It can't just be added with clever software it is hardware dependant and quite simply they don't have the necessary hardware so unless they add it to their new devices nothing is going to change until they do it really is that simple.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-18 19:43 ]
Posted by ashyak36
maybe SE are just working on a phone to take on the N95. how awesome would that be
Posted by plankgatan
On 2007-09-18 20:25:27, mario2004 wrote:
The n95 is one of the best (if not the best) camera quality a cellphone does have as of today. SE suffers from a bad plastic lens. 5, 7 or even 10 Mp is not going to help much.
whatever
my k810i takes better macro, portrait & lowlight pics then N95....no doubt about that. (i have compare with my friend N95 many many times, nearlly all time my k810i takes better macro, portrait & lowlight pics).
just take a look on some k810i pics here on Esato, they have more real colors, sharpness, contrast, etc. (N95 pics often looks "unreal" (like it have to much contrast or something).
the only N95 pics ive seen who is better then k810i is the Landscape pics.
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Posted by >500
@dogmann
i have it from VERY good source.... this was in the labs, proto testing, who knows, maybe they had a chip in them at this stage.... whether you believe me or not is entirely up to you...
Posted by soane28
i bet the K850 and T650 can record VGA 30 fps, SE just limit their products for marketing purposes and other silly excuses.
Just take a look at the i-mobile 902 which has a sony cdd sensor camera module and see its excellent quality in both day and night. I am yet to see another competitor for this camera, and that includes the N95 and K850.
Im sure they are quite capable of creating a top notch product, just choose not to, especially when they can make products cheaper and still gain a good profit. SE really need to question themselves about the quality of their products.
Posted by max_wedge
You gotta remember SE is not the huge phone company Ericsson was. They have much less marketshare and that they can keep churning out a wide variety of great phones and still turn a profit is quite an achievement by such a young and small company.
Once they claw back some of the marketshare that ERICSSON lost, they will be able to concentrate again features again. For now they are concentrating on quality and varied offerings in the mid range.
I know many will argue with me about it being Ericsson who lost the market share but if you do your research you will see Ericsson had made some errors in choice of outsourcing that left their market exposed to competitors. That's why they got out of the mobile phone business - the market loss was so huge the decided to drop mobile and concentrate on their core business of selling network technology instead.
SE has been picking up the pieces ever since. Sony and Ericsson were never going to subsidise SE for ever. At some point SE had to start making a profit for itself or the joint venture would die.
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2007-09-17 15:56:02, Aware wrote:
My challenge:
IF T650/K850 CAN RECORD in VGA/30 FPS - GET ME THAT FIRMWARE, I'll test it first hand, and report here AND Se-nse, AND M-R!
Otherwise, your talk is JUST THAT - TALK
FAR too many people chatting crap at the moment, with NO PROOF......and, as someone who puts his money where his mouth is, I for one am sick of it......
As soon as LG Viewty is out, SE will be THE ONLY manufacturer WITHOUT VGA recording capability. For the people who released W900(QVGA/30fps) in 2005(6 months before ANYONE ELSE), that's a shambles in my book......
Can't believe just how fast a manufacturer can go downhill, all for want of money......I think K850 release will teach SE a hard lesson though......
I don't know from what rocker you bounced off of but screw you! WHo are YOU to think you're better than ANYONE else here or elsewhere?! I don't care that you waste money or even receive SE phones as gifts - quite frankly besides the congratulations instead of envy from others and there interests in what a particular model is capable of I don't think they care that you have the latest & greatest or even the most either. Remember you are NOT what you have. Ppl "TALK" on forums to bounce ideas, share opinions, and even debate their opinions to seperate truth from fact. GET USED TO IT. Otherwise your post
On 2007-09-17 15:56:02, Aware wrote:
IF T650/K850 CAN RECORD in VGA/30 FPS - GET ME THAT FIRMWARE, I'll test it first hand, and report here AND Se-nse, AND M-R!
Otherwise, your talk is JUST THAT - TALK
is ALSO just talk. You STILL haven't proven that anyones hopes or opinions on whether or not the K850i CAN / CANNOT record at 30fps or even at VGA resolution. What not priveledged to get the firmware yourself? Common. This kind of talk is NOT helpful nor inducive of proper etiquette nor even helpful to this thread or to others hoping that their hard earned dollars can be satisfied with their upcoming purchase - their dollars being satisfied not their being. Just remember that we live in a democratic world (well most of it) and we HOPE that with our threads, and voting with our $$ can pursuade SE to consider delivering more powerful or feature set phones. THe world is becoming more media hungered and more complex that things like video/audio recording & playback & sharing along with memo's and calendaring are being increasingly more capable.
IF T650/K850 CAN RECORD in VGA/30 FPS - GET ME THAT FIRMWARE, I'll test it first hand, and report here AND Se-nse, AND M-R!
Otherwise, your talk is JUST THAT - TALK
@Aware, I'm directing this few paragraphs to you but not outright and totally as I've seen other posts here shot off to others and hoping that others take note. Its not out of malice and you could've had a bad day - or even if not directed to me as I didn't take it this way - but it didn't seem right from my standpoint. I may even be out of line here but I don't know.
On 2007-09-18 20:41:33, Dogmann wrote:
@>500
I really don't know where you got your information from but VGA Video recording is dependant on having the right graphics chip not just how fast or powerful the processor is. Neither of these two devices have a graphics chip able to do this and that is why how ever much any of you want it. It can't just be added with clever software it is hardware dependant and quite simply they don't have the necessary hardware so unless they add it to their new devices nothing is going to change until they do it really is that simple.
Marc
Ahhhh! but your forget not ALL mobile cpu's are made equal. Your mistake here is there ARE some phones who's dedicated dual core cpu can handle video processing more than average. We see this in the Motorola Q9 - no dedicated video chip if I'm not mistaken, and as well as the many Nokia N80/N81/E61i/E65i etc can all record video at 15fps but at 352x288 or higher resolution. NO dedicated camera and signifcantly clearer than the K800 can.
On 2007-09-19 03:25:13, max_wedge wrote:
You gotta remember SE is not the huge phone company Ericsson was. They have much less marketshare and that they can keep churning out a wide variety of great phones and still turn a profit is quite an achievement by such a young and small company.
Once they claw back some of the marketshare that ERICSSON lost, they will be able to concentrate again features again. For now they are concentrating on quality and varied offerings in the mid range.
I know many will argue with me about it being Ericsson who lost the market share but if you do your research you will see Ericsson had made some errors in choice of outsourcing that left their market exposed to competitors. That's why they got out of the mobile phone business - the market loss was so huge the decided to drop mobile and concentrate on their core business of selling network technology instead.
SE has been picking up the pieces ever since. Sony and Ericsson were never going to subsidise SE for ever. At some point SE had to start making a profit for itself or the joint venture would die.
I Disagree! With HUGE sales and INCREASE of marketshare by default due to Motorola's latest & recent qtr blunder, I'd say SE has a LARGER market share than what Ericsson had prior. More Cellular providers carry SE products than Ericsson - at least this side of the pond - and more models as well every qtr. Plus that with other accessories now, headsets, flash modules, Speakers, and watches (which still has yet to really begin to be counted). Now I'm not sure HOW to research this; as "marketshare" can be interpreted in so many ways. Corporate, consumer, provider sourced, local continent, worldwide, etc.
Posted by max_wedge
Ericsson no longer sell mobile phones, so you can't cmpare SE to Ericsson now. All you can do is look at marketshare percentages now and then.
(Ericsson is very successful at their core business. On wcdma business, as of 2004, Ericsson held 30% of the mobile platform market, but they don't actually make phones, they design network technology that is used by other company's that make phones.
http://www.ericsson.com/erics[....]releases/20041111-968812.shtml )
SE came about to address Ericssons waning influence in the mobile handset market, ie: SE's job was to increase marketshare compared to Ericsson on it's own. There first goal was to lift SE marketshare from Ericsson's 10% (in 1999, down from the 1998 figure 0f 12.7%) to 12% http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,2085807,00.htm
Today, SE marketshare sits at 8-9%.
That said, I have no doubt that SE will keep growing and eventually reach the target of 12% and I have no doubt outstrip that target completely. Producing a plethora of mid-range handsets is part of the strategy to achieve that goal. They will never achieve it concentrating on expensive high end all-in-one phones.
btw, marketshare is simple - it's the percentage of mobile handsets a company has sold out of all handsets sold world wide. What's not so simple is analysing the profit margin. HOwever SE is the fasted growing mobile phone manufacturer, so I expect they have good margins (margins which they churn back into development of the above mentioned plethora of handsets)
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Posted by Hurst
On 2007-09-17 15:56:02, Aware wrote:
My challenge:
IF T650/K850 CAN RECORD in VGA/30 FPS - GET ME THAT FIRMWARE, I'll test it first hand, and report here AND Se-nse, AND M-R!
Otherwise, your talk is JUST THAT - TALK
FAR too many people chatting crap at the moment, with NO PROOF......and, as someone who puts his money where his mouth is, I for one am sick of it......
As soon as LG Viewty is out, SE will be THE ONLY manufacturer WITHOUT VGA recording capability. For the people who released W900(QVGA/30fps) in 2005(6 months before ANYONE ELSE), that's a shambles in my book......
Can't believe just how fast a manufacturer can go downhill, all for want of money......I think K850 release will teach SE a hard lesson though......
Bravo. Someone who can think with clarity instead of fanaticism.
Posted by goldenface
On 2007-09-17 15:56:02, Aware wrote:
As soon as LG Viewty is out, SE will be THE ONLY manufacturer WITHOUT VGA recording capability. For the people who released W900(QVGA/30fps) in 2005(6 months before ANYONE ELSE), that's a shambles in my book......
Amen to that!
I think thecoolsha has the right idea flagging this issue up.
If SE have something planned then they need to get their asses into gear and fast, they're just too slow bringing things out now and its turning into 'The Mouse that Roared'.
I remember reading an article a few years ago regarding the amount of money
spends on R&D and it wasn't a small figure.
Sony Ericsson, 50% owned by Sony Corp - proprietors of Handycam and Cyber-Shot has a few devices right now that shoot at QVGA and these are years old. Why isn't this technology filtering through to its JV?
At the rate Samsung are releasing devices SE will be smothered under the sheer number of hi-tech devices emerging from other quarters; they can't really expect the K850i alone to compete with 3 devices from Samsung, 3 from Nokia and god only knows what else is in the pipeline from other OEMs.
Get a move on! Squeak!
Posted by Dogmann
@Prom 1
Yes the Q9 says it has video recording and playback @30fps but no mention at what resolution it could be qcif for all it says and i am pretty sure if it was VGA they would of made a big point of it. The very fact they omit what it works at to me suggests it's not that great and highly unlikely to be VGA IMO.
This is why such a big deal was made of the N93 as it was the first device to launch using the OMAP2420 chip with the full version of the Power VR MBX that enables video recording and playback @30fps VGA. Which has been followed by the N93i, N95 and E90.
Please correct me if i am wrong but as far as i am aware these are so far the only Mobile devices along with the Z8 that use this chip and offer this ability. Other devices can do 30fps but not in VGA as irrespective of their processor power they are missing the graphics chip's ability. After this is what we are talking about not 30fps but 30fps in VGA.
@>500
I am not having a go just pointing out the realities of life, if your VERY good source actually knows what he is talking about i couldn't know as obviously I don't know him. But find it extremely hard to believe if they had it knowing this is what so many want they would just take it out, as that just isn't as easy as it sounds or makes any sense either but if we believed half the things that come from "reliable sources" our devices would all be very different by now.
Remember reliable sources claimed the P990 would get the same firmware as the P1 or even possibly a newer version of Symbian. Please take no offence but i do find it very hard to believe SE are now basing ther leading testing and research in Australia. People like to make out they know more than they do and unfortunately half the time take bits of information and jump to unsupportable conclusions just to look like they are in the loop or more important then they really are.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-19 09:48 ]
Posted by mib1800
It is true that K850 can do VGA video recording. According to an insider, SE purposely disabled this feature as they do not want to confuse buyers. K850 is primarily a "cybershot" so the main objective is to focus buyers on the camera capability and not video. Even the K700, K750, K800, K810 are capable of doing QVGA and better video recording but SE chose to disable it for the same reason. SE is finalising with Sony to use the "HandyCam" brand and SE will re-release K850 with a VGA @30fps video recording but at the sametime will downscale the camera to 2 MP so as not to overshadow the video recording aspect. The insider also said that K850 camera is actually a 7MP unit but downscaled to 5MP as Sony was concerned that it will compete with Sony lines of digital camera. Also K850 hardware already has a built in wifi/gps/gaming chip but SE did not enable it in the firmware now because it is not the opportune time to do so yet as the cellphone market is still crazy over music phones. SE will immediately activate these advanced in the firmware once the market opportunity arises.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-09-19 10:31 ]
Posted by QVGA
VGA resolution requires a good graphics chip, NOT a processor. Thats what i know for sure.
The amount of FPS in a video that a phone can churn out depends on its CPU, thats not for sure though.
Posted by >500
@dogmann
that p990 firmware talk was true.
had a so called p990 reunion in greece during the year and it was supposed to go ahead, why it didnt im not sure. Im sure Ares will confirm this meeting too.....
oh, btw, never said this person was Aussie, though im sure
australia do know what goes on in the company overseas. After all, its all
again, your choice whether you want to believe this or not. i for one do...
Posted by Aware
Okay......
Prom1 my statement was not made to you...or to >500, or thecoolsha...directly. Yourself...I don't know if you are quoting VGA capability from a founded source or not, tbh......but I DO know from where the others are getting their information, and it was to those sources(via the posters here, if necessary) I was aiming the challenge......
What I have, or where I stand in relation to others, I don't think is the point here; it wasn't even considered by myself when making the statement(although, I doubt very much that anyone with a retail, warranted T650(K850's not available right now) would be prepared to risk WSODing it trying to make it record VGA video with prototype firmware). I'm sorry if you felt it was.
But this isn't a light subject for SE owners, it's ~two years since W900(with specific tailored hardware) could manage QVGA/30fps recording, and so many people have been crying out for half decent video capability......yet SE has decided we're not worthy, and can put up with QCIF/15fps......
......and at the same time, these insiders are saying 'oh, but SE's phones CAN record VGA, they were doing it in the labs'......that's going to cheer up people who have just bought/received on contract their new phone(and are moaning because it CAN'T do decent video), isn't it......
{I Emailed SE last year, when I got my K800, about the fact that Eldar's prototype K8 had TrackID, and retail phones didn't. Their reply?? 'This may be implemented in future software updates' The actuality?? SE kept it out of K800 firmware, then put it IN......to K810 firmware......hmmm, so they expect joe public to purchase a whole new device, to get one UI feature......}
And that's what is winding me up. I assume you're aware of the modified camera drivers available for K800, yes?? It's already possible using these, to get K800/810 to record at 30fps...in fact just last week(or the week before), someone rewrote the K550 driver, and even THAT can record in 24fps(with a maximum of ~31fps, when the recording was analysed - the threads are in the software section, if you want to read them)! These drivers ALSO specify the recording resolution, however, it was depressing to find that, even when set to QVGA res, the capability has been limited by SE, in the MAIN firmware(drivers are in the filsystem side, hence modifyable)......to QCIF......
......which of course adds to the tension when the 'VGA capabilty' statement keeps getting shouted about by people with insider sources......
Also worth consideration: I have SHARP 904SH sat here with me, their 18 month-old(before even N93), DB2020 processored flagship cameraphone. WITHOUT any special INVIDIA processor, it can record VGA video(although I can't test it, I don't have a VodaKK simcard), albeit, I believe, at 15fps......but it's quite possible. And this phone runs same processor as SEs, and is based on the same Operating System, OSE.
I also have here right now, Samsung G600. With a WORSE processor than DB2020, even this phone can record VGA video(again only at 15fps).
Knowing this, are you happy that K850/T650 can apparently match their ability, but SE have locked out this ability, because they deem us not worthy?? Even worse, would you be prepared to wait until the replacement model comes along, before SE might actually realise it's possibly the most-demanded feature they're lacking, and allow VGA - of course, by which time, all the other manufacturers will probably be working on/releasing DVD/HD quality recording......and we'll still be told 'Oh, they CAN do it, they did it in the labs(but it been taken out of retail products)'......
And don't worry, I've been looking at this specific 'problem' for the last month or so(and challenging those with unfounded claims, ask >500 if you wish), and will continue to do so, until something concrete is proved, or disproved. I like cold, hard facts, and know for a fact, that when a corporation states what is or is not possible, they usually give the consumer the fob-off, as in this case......
......which makes it all the more annoying that those sources who claim VGA recording possible, cannot(or even worse, will not) provide anything more than this claim, even when they are in the best available position to do so(far better than someone like myself, for certain)......
I still would like to see this VGA-capable firmware, and will keep working at it(and if I CAN obtain it, I'll tell the world the results, they have a right to know)......but people who should know better should stop giving consumers false hopes, it's just not fair on them......
And SE should pull their fingers out(before they get left behind), period......
Posted by JK
Sooooo will the K850 record as well as a N95?
Posted by QVGA
On 2007-09-19 14:28:07, JK wrote:
Sooooo will the K850 record as well as a N95?
No because K850 records at QVGA and N95 at VGA
Posted by sesukaku
guyss.. i don't think this thread is helping us in anyway.. what we need is the phone is ACTUALLY can record @VGA 30 fps in the RETAIL version, not the one in the lab.. i don't give my damm about the K850 ability in lab... well.. because of the same reason.. i am not going to buy SE phone at least 2-3 years from now, if the situation gets better.. in the meanwhile.. i will look for some great-cheap nokia offers.