Posted by goldenface
This ugly issue has raised its head again with a high profile policeman hitting out at the parents who let the children run 'feral' in the streets and the poor man in Warrington attacked and subsequently dying after confronting yobs.
Is the shopkeepers fault for selling the booze in the first place?
Are the Police taking on the role of surrogate parents and are thus too stretched to do their job properly?
Should the parents be ultimately responsible and this fined or even jailed for their childrens behaviour?
Should the alcohol be priced out the reach of off-licence drinkers?
Should alcohol be banned in all public places?
How should this be tackled?
Posted by pmerryman
This is down to one lot of people, which is the do gooders.
You cant hit your kids anymore, teachers have to sit on their hands when dealing with unruly pupils, the police dont have any authority, and all because of the do gooders.
Posted by masseur
more background in this BBC article
many areas within Australia have bans on alcohol ni public areas. In fact I read recently that the whole of Alice Springs now has a public alcohol ban
my son is nearly 18 and we have started introducing him to the odd can of beer. We figure if he joins us and sees responsible drinking that it should have a good influence on him.
But clearly peer pressure will change that as it did for us when we first started drinking and went out with our mates.
Another point is that many European cultures allow children (14+) to drink the odd glass of wine at meals and we don't hear many stories like this from those places
Posted by goldenface
@Pmerryman
Well thats one argument however, a lot of parents would argue that they have never needed to hit their children and have ended up wth perfectly well behaved children.
So wouldn't the responsibility again come back to the way parents bring up their kids?
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[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2007-08-15 13:44 ]
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
yes - But they need to try a differnt approach, you cannot just lock kids up to stop them drinking.
Got to remember, its not just the alcohol which is the problem, its the fact the kids are twats
Posted by >500
kids aged about 14-17 here are growing up FAR TOO FAST. Their parents need to do much more, they let them run riot! They have to be a little harder.
these kids think their s**t dont stink! I know im fairly young, but i dont fit that age bracket
they try to go to clubs (overage) not underage ones... when they have parties (house/hall), all they do is drink, get into fights etc etc... and kids these days tend to be hanging out in large groups, say 5+ people, so fights start easier....
Posted by pmerryman
On 2007-08-15 14:44:49, Luke-the-magic-man wrote:
yes - But they need to try a differnt approach, you cannot just lock kids up to stop them drinking.
Got to remember, its not just the alcohol which is the problem, its the fact the kids are twats
It is the kids that are twats as you say, and it may be the way that they have been raised by bad parents.
The drinking in teenagers has been around for years, we must have all drank a bottle of cider on a weekend, and at around 90p for a litre, that was very cheap. So people cannot say that booze is too cheap and easily available, when it has been like that for years.
Posted by batesie
this comes down to 'respect' or a lack of it in my opinion. that includes respect for yourself and other people.
i used to drink with friends out in a park from the age of 13, the main things being, we did it away from public view, in moderation due to the fact that if out parents found out we'd get in major trouble!
we never got into trouble, we had parties etc, and had a good time!
but where has the discipline gone from todays society? parent seem to scared to tell of there kid if they do something wrong! or dont they care?
i think its this left-liberal minded attitude 'dont smack kids' culture that has let kids run riot. what wrong if you tell your kid no 3 times and they still do it, they should be punished but i never see it anymore!
who's reponsibilty is it to disipline kids? school teachers or head's? No. police men and women? No. Parents?.... well i honestly think they dont either now.
at the end of the day if some under 18's want to get alcolhol, you'll never stop them. but what you can stop is people being so SOFT on them, and soft on the parents!!!
SO my answer is yes, parents need to take more action and responisibility for there uner 18's actions and just teach them some respect and disapline!
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[ This Message was edited by: batesie on 2007-08-15 14:16 ]
Posted by goldenface
So what would you say the difference is between the kids of today and the kids of say a couple of decades ago? The fact that drink has always been available from one outlet or another might not be the problem but isn't it a lot more accessable now?
Admittedly, parent were allowed to slap their kids in the past in a way which is frowned upon now.
Is our celebrity obsessed culture to blame? Are we glorifying the so called celebrities who come rolling out of nightclubs stewed to the gills and rolling around in the gutter, who then sell their story to a celeb mag and end up on the front page of the very next issue, airbrushed and looking gorgeous?
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[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2007-08-15 14:20 ]
Posted by pmerryman
I used to drink in the local park, and near the local chippy when we were around 16. We hung around in a crowd of around 13 people, and we never caused any trouble, or got into any fights.
It is all down to respect, as earlier posted. If you dont have respect for anybody, you may as well give up now.
The kids know that you cant hit them for being cheeky, wether it be the parent, the policeman, the teacher, and this is where the respect falls down.
Posted by leeboy13
im with pmerryman totally on this one... it is the do-gooders who have ruined it all now and kids CAN get away with murder.... uunless of course you still practice the 'heavy handed' approach... which personally i would... theres a difference between hurting your child and trying to tell them the difference between right and wrong.... however i have to say there is far more to this and not only the 'do-gooders' who ruin it, but also the people who just simply cannot control they own angry and aggression (the parents i mean here)...
Its a tough one, but maybe the aid of the internet and more freely avalible sources for them to find out about this kind of thing hasnt helped also..
I still remmebr the first time i got legless - was at my sister engagemnt party and i drank like 8 cans of white lightening - needless to say, that was enough to put me off for a while
Posted by Danny_BFC
The fact is everyone except about 10/20% of 14-17y/o's will be drinking regulary. Its as simple as getting your brother or sister just to go in the shop for you.
The Shopkeepers aren't bothered
Posted by goldenface
Its all very well saying kids need discipline but I think there will always be parents who just don't care what their kids get up to.
Should the parents be fined or even jailed?
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[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2007-08-15 15:21 ]
Posted by leeboy13
its a otough one goldenface because how can you PROVE whos at fault - there are some kids out there - who will juts not listen.....
to simply fine or even jail the parents would be harsh - i mean imagine if you got jailed because youre son or daughter did something horrible (ie, got drunk and seriously hurt someone).... you cant watch the kids 24/7 and shouldnt have too 0- but kids will be kids and they will want what they cant have....
i see where youre coming from, just find it hard to understand how one would control/govern such actions...
Posted by pmerryman
You will always get the families who dont care about what the kids get up to or where they are, and yes these type of people should be fined.
When I am driving home from work, through a not too desirable area, you can see kids as young as 5 or 6 wandering around the streets on their own. Now that is out of order, and these parents shouldn't even be allowed to have kids. Now who knows what these kids are getting up to whilst out on their own.
When I was a youngster, you knew that if you were ever taken home by the Police, you would get a crack off your Dad, and that was enought to put you off. Also, you would have probably got a crack off the Policeman as well.
What happens these days, they stand there telling the Police to F*ck Off, because the Police's hands are tied.
If my Daughter is Naughty, she knows she will get a crack off me, and that is usually enough. Dont get me wrong, she wont be walking around with bruises on here body, but a slap around the arse or legs usually sufices.
Posted by leeboy13
i agree.... maybe a way of finding out how well children are looked after should be explored... you are right though, something needs to be done somewhere....
Posted by batesie
i got a whack as kid, never enough for a bruise, but enough to know not to do it again, but only if i had to be told a few times! (as we all know some kids wont listen, and action speaks louder than words)
if this has been missed out a generation, then these kids when grown up wont have the same implementation of disipline either, and this is what we are beginning to see!
Posted by goldenface
Thats probably right batesie.
I got whacked when I was growing up and just I can't believe what some kids get away with these days. I hated getting into trouble but admittedly I never used to go boozing until I was 17-18.
Posted by batesie
*sigh* if you see a kid playing up in a shopping centre and there mum says stop more than 3 times and they still ignore her i'll say "dont be worried about smacking them! looks like he/she needs a smack!"
EDIT: saying that i wouldnt say that to other people, as its not my child so none of my buisness., but i do 'think' it sometimes!
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[ This Message was edited by: batesie on 2007-08-15 16:25 ]
Posted by joebmc
I got a clip round the ear hole as a kid if naughty and if I was playing up all my parents had to do was threaten me with a smack (usually in the super market with “I’ll pull down your pants and smack your bottom in front of everyone”) and I would stop playing up. Did me no harm!
Kids today don’t care for threats of smacking because most know there get away with it and/or parents are a bit scared of getting into trouble for it I guess.
What we need in this country is some sort of national service to straighten them out and give them respect for themselves and others.
Posted by djtwistter
they country need to be sorted out it messes up and it hasnt got a proper rule