Posted by Xugaa
Fifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says.
The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.
The Royal Navy said it was doing everything it could to secure the release of the sailors and marines who are based on HMS Cornwall.
They were said to be carrying out a routine patrol in Iraqi waters.
The Ministry of Defence said: "The group boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.
"We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level."
"The British government is demanding the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment."
"Whatever the rights and wrongs of military action, British forces in Iraq are now there with the authority of a UN security council resolution... and the Iranian government should be left in no doubt of the serious implications of their action," he said.
The UK claimed the men were "forcibly escorted" into Iranian territorial waters.
The incident comes as British Army Colonel Justin Masherevski, who is based in Iraq, says most of the violence against UK forces in Basra is being engineered by Iranian elements.
Col Masherevski said Iran was providing "sophisticated weaponry" to insurgents and "Iranian agents" were paying local men to attack British troops.
Main Source
British Evidence
Source
Bush attacks Iran over captives
President George W Bush has condemned Iran's "inexcusable behaviour" after its capture of 15 Royal Navy personnel. The US leader added that he would "strongly support" the British government over the crisis.
Source
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-04-01 00:54 ]
Posted by axxxr
Again this is yet one more reason why our forces shouldn't be in that region in the first place.
Our government thinks that by staying the course with the great satan the U.S will somehow bring democracy in Iraq, well i've got some news for them, Democracy will never come to Iraq or Iran for that matter, they are people with different cultures and traditions, we are only making life harder for them and of course ourselves by staying there....best to pull out now and leave them alone, the U.S has caused enough death and distruction!
War with Iran is very likely, don't think that lunatic bush will rest until he's launched some kind of military strike.
Posted by jcwhite_uk
I have a friend who is going to be driving through Iran next month on his way to china. I am not sure it is a good idea myself.
Posted by Xugaa
Personally I think that once Saddam and his heirarchy of followers were removed there was no reason to be in Iraq at all, I think we should have left a long while ago and just left them to it, and I think we should just pull out now completely, reducing the troops gradually like we're doing is just endangering our already stretched and vulnerable troops. I am though in full support of the war in Afganistan and think that that should become our priority concern for the meantime. I personally think that Iran like the US is looking for trouble, they weren't even in their own waters when this happened...
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-03-23 13:36 ]
Posted by axxxr
On 2007-03-23 14:29:49, jcwhite_uk wrote:
I have a friend who is going to be driving through Iran next month on his way to china. I am not sure it is a good idea myself.
I don't think it should be a problem driving through Iran, as long as he has no connections with Mi5 or Mi6 he should be fine!
it would have been dangerous if it was Iraq but Iran isn't like that, they are a peacefull people.
the only danger is something might stir up while he's inside Iran, so thats the gamble.
Posted by Xugaa
I would still say it was dangerous, it's his choice of course but I would certainly advise otherwise. Like you say Axxxr, Iran might be more "peaceful" but I certainly wouldn't consider it a safe place to go at all.
"The incident comes as British Army Colonel Justin Masherevski, who is based in Iraq, says most of the violence against UK forces in Basra is being engineered by Iranian elements."
"Col Masherevski said Iran was providing 'sophisticated weaponry' to insurgents and 'Iranian agents' were paying local men to attack British troops."
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-03-23 13:42 ]
Posted by goldenface
They'd better let the sailors go or there'll be trouble.
I've a friend in the Royal Navy, not sure where he is at the moment though.
Posted by Xugaa
On 2007-03-23 14:42:26, goldenface wrote:
They'd better let the sailors go or there'll be trouble.
I've a friend in the Royal Navy, not sure where he is at the moment though.
Family Information Line - 0845 7800 900
?
Posted by maggflodd
It's the "routine patrol" bit that should have us all at attention... Routine??? Car smugglers??? De Menezes was shot following a "routine stakeout"! Hitler introduced his "patriot-act" following a routine-Reichstag-Brand"... No routine in a crazy conext... NO routine!
Posted by oneofthose
@ maggflodd, 'routine' indeed! Remember the tanks at Heathrow... ??? Today the UN PLACED sanctions on Iran because they want nuclear thisorthat.,- how much more reasonable does that sound, when Iran acts oh so unreasonably - I mean, according to, eh, THE press the Iranians went as far as arresting them 'at gunpoint'! How dare they - British occupation forces illegally in your waters, and you arrest them at 'gunpoint'... Iranians, you need to pass a patriot act before you can get away with that!
Posted by maggflodd
heathrow - yeah, how loooong forgotten. And a couple of years ago when British tanks rammed an Iraqi prison to free some of their British comrades... How heroic and yet bizarre. Bizarre of course, because our "free" media failed to supply any context - like the not so esoteric fact, that those British soldiers had been arrested while running around, armed to the teeth, DRESSED AS IRAQIS!!! They had been involved in false flag attacks aimed at fanning the flames of sectarian fighting... Oh yeah - poor armed forces... always getting arrested for being "in the wrong p[lace at the wrong time"!!!
Posted by VGA
Well, let's examine the other side of the same coin!
IRAN'S ARREST OF SAILORS WAS LEGITIMATE, SAYS FORMER UK ENVOY !
http://www.payvand.com/news/07/mar/1318.html
ANY COMMENTS ON THE REMARKS OF A UK CITIZEN?!
Armando Rozário - Cabo Frio & Macaé - BRAZIL, March 27, 2007
Posted by Xugaa
Yeah right that the British boat/s were in Iranian waters, Iran has done this before and they'll do it again. With no other objective other than to stir up trouble and make the Middle East at the moment more trouble than it already is. Even the UN I believe are saying this, stating that by doing this Iran will do nothing other than make themselves look even worse to the world.
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-03-27 10:53 ]
Posted by fatreg
why does it matter if they were in iranian waters anyway??
im pretty sure everyone is free to sail wherever they want!!
fatreg
Posted by Xugaa
On 2007-03-27 18:41:28, fatreg wrote:
why does it matter if they were in iranian waters anyway??
im pretty sure everyone is free to sail wherever they want!!
I don't think so no, at least not military vehicles.
Iran is accussing us of entering their waters and spying on them...
Despite the fact that we were in our waters and we were searching an Iraqi boat suspected of illegally importing cars.
Which then means that in fact the Iranian vessels entered Iraqi waters to capture the sailors.
Posted by fatreg
hmmm..
do i smell some small scale war?
joy.. just want the world needs..
ffs.
fatreg
Posted by axxxr
If we mess with people in that region, this sort of thing is bound to happen, with America's pressure and Evil eyes on Iran now you can't expect Iran to be friendly towards us can you now.
Lets see this one kick off now, its getting mad now and could become something much much bigger!
Posted by fatreg
why wont they just let them go then?
simple solution to the problem or does iran have something to hide in respect to smugglning cars?
fatreg
Posted by axxxr
On 2007-03-27 19:39:10, fatreg wrote:
why wont they just let them go then?
simple solution to the problem or does iran have something to hide in respect to smugglning cars?
fatreg
They probably have there reasons for not releasing them, its maybe there way of getting back at the us for imposing sanctions on them for the Nukes there developing.
Iran has a right to hide anything they like, they after all a Sovreign nation, we don't tell the stuff we get upto in the world (mostly fabricating dodgy war dossiers against innocent countries) so why should they?
Posted by fatreg
forget i said anything.
fatreg
Posted by axxxr
why...did i say something wrong?
Posted by Xugaa
Yeah but Axxxr, like it or not as already stated there is evidence to show Iran's direct involvement with the trouble in Iraq. Although it is assumed and in many cases agreed that Iran have been paying and influencing Iraqi attacks on British troops, there is much evidence to suggest that Iran are and always have been supplying weapons and munitions during this war, goods that are to be used against us. So like it or not Iran isn't as peaceful and nice as you might think, definately not the government/leadership anyway, since they are directly increasing the problems in Iraq and indirectly fighting against us. We are not imposing on them for no reason, like when Saddam was in power Iran currently has an extremely untrustworthy government/leadership that whether the nuclear intentions are peaceful or not they cannot be trusted with such energy power, the exact same goes with North Korea. Not to mention the countless threats that their leader has already made in public to not only the Western world but also the UN as well.
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-03-27 20:32 ]
Posted by axxxr
Trouble in Iraq is caused by the U.S and us in case you forgot, America's threats on Iran have been going on for decades now, santions have been unjustly imposed on them for nuclear technology, its only natural for them to battle there enemies whatever way they see possible. (not defending there actions) but we are the root cause of the all the problems in that region....did you just say Iran not peacefull? correct me if im wrong but i don't see Iran illegally invading someone else's country...we are ones illegally occupying Iraq and mass murdering innocent people there....Iraq was never a country we should have been in and should leave immedietly, all we achieved by staying there is stir up a hornets nest which is now out of control and will never stop...Iran is another country we should stop telling them what to do, they've done nothing wrong!...the greater threat to Peace is America , they are the ones that should be stopped.
Posted by maggflodd
On 2007-03-27 21:30:09, Xugaa wrote:
Yeah but Axxxr,....................the exact same goes with North Korea. Not to mention the countless threats that their leader has already made in public to not only the Western world but also the UN as well.
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-03-27 20:32 ]
Posted by fatreg
i just merely hope they get released without any issues and that we find out they haven't been tortured or anything or there will be trouble...
fatreg
Posted by axxxr
yeh lets hope they all get back home safe and sound.
Posted by Xugaa
^ Just revenge right?
Posted by Xugaa
UK ready to produce Iran evidence
The government is preparing to release photographic evidence to support its assertion that 15 UK sailors seized by Iran were not in Iranian waters.
Source
Posted by maggflodd
On 2007-03-28 09:58:35, Xugaa wrote:
UK ready to produce Iran evidence
The government is preparing to release photographic evidence to support its assertion that 15 UK sailors seized by Iran were not in Iranian waters.
Source
... Just DON'T think I don't care about those 15 - but think about HOW that list of casualties (very casual...) will grow... bet the sun has the obituary already prefabbed: "many who knew Iran..."! Or will it be "YOU'LL GET YOUR NUKES - BEND OVER AND TAKE 'EM"??? Maybe ch4 can do a phone-in show where we decide who gets it next. That way they wouldn't have to fabricate pretexts after pretexts... "life-swap" meets "faking it" - in this episode we take 15 sailors and make them live with them "arabs", while we take some other "arabs" turn them into suicide bombers and let them live in Britain..., hilarious scenes, moving confession camera, and John Reid's diary room. (Priceless - for the rest there's I.D. Card...) To compete the bbc shows "Top Smear" and ITV is launching "Diplunacy - skating on thin Ice". "deal or no deal" - this is exciting, Iran! the banker is on the phone!!" (ooooooh) - "He offers you 50 Burger Kings and 1 BP! Remember, before you decide: all your foreign assets are at stake?"... Not a dull night until BB8... (I almost forgot ant and decs new special: "Pokerface - Collateral Damage", where Ant - though it's possibly Dec - will wonder if contestant number 1, a former weapons inspector, will keep his cool or commit poker-political "suicide"... "so Dr Kelly, you'd come so far... Last second you hit the suicide button - why?" - "No I didn't" - "yes you did" - "No, I..." - "shut up"... Cut to commercial: "medal of honour: road to Iran... pS3 - this is living.....
_________________
... so what's the problem? You misunderstood me perfectly well...!
[ This Message was edited by: maggflodd on 2007-03-28 11:21 ]
Posted by axxxr
I just heard on the Sky News that the soildiers were only 1.7 nautical miles outside iranian waters, not exactly a huge figure B-Liar's government can categorically argue about.
An expert has has also said that the waters tend to recede in that area because mud plains or something like that, which means it narrows the distance and now putting the soidiers inside Iran waters, so the Iranians may just have a strong case.
so lets see what happens.
Posted by goldenface
So they weren't in Iranian waters after all?
Gee, I wonder what happens now....
Posted by joebmc
Don’t know why Iran’s president seems to be thought of as the Middle East’s savoir to so many his almost as bad a bush!
Posted by axxxr
Can i ask on what grounds your comparing President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with G.Bush?
Posted by joebmc
Well did he not say that he would like to wipe off another country off the map?
I dont know why some are trying to justify Iran’s actions. As a Brit all I want is for my fellow Brits to be returned safely.
All I can see is Iran are trying to invoke some kind of action by not releasing them.
But I’m sure once its proved that they were not in Iranian waters some will say it was some sort of conspiracy (or has that already been said)?
Posted by goldenface
From BBCNews
"The UK government says the Iranian government initially said the merchant vessel searched by the navy personnel had been at a point within Iraqi waters before later providing a second, alternative position, within Iranian waters."
They have to let them go now. They've change their story. The Soldiers were working under a UN Mandate. Enough said.
Posted by axxxr
On 2007-03-28 14:06:20, joebmc wrote:
Well did he not say that he would like to wipe off another country off the map?
I dont know why some are trying to justify Iran’s actions. As a Brit all I want is for my fellow Brits to be returned safely.
All I can see is Iran are trying to invoke some kind of action by not releasing them.
But I’m sure once its proved that they were not in Iranian waters some will say it was some sort of conspiracy (or has that already been said)?
The country in question i.e: Israel is an illegle state which he was referring to, but besides America and Israel have both been threatning Iran for decades now Iran have a right to defend themselves, politically and by force if necessary.
I want our Soildiers back home safely just as much as the next man but the point here is that this is just another reminder why we shouldn't be in that region in the first place.
Within Iranian waters or not, Iran has been slapped by the U.S with sanctions and threats, this is there way of getting back at us.
Posted by joebmc
"Israel is an illegle state"
You Say Tomato, I Say Tomahto
Posted by axxxr
Israel is an illegle state like it or not!
ahmadinejad may say things in the heat of the moment, but the fact is he hasn't done anything yet...political word play is all it is.
besides its the U.S who have destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, amongst other countries and mass murdered millions....not Iran!
Posted by goldenface
Just because he hasn't done anything yet doesn't mean he won't.
Is it wise to wait until he actually does something?
Posted by axxxr
On 2007-03-28 15:12:15, goldenface wrote:
Just because he hasn't done anything yet doesn't mean he won't.
Is it wise to wait until he actually does something?
If he does do something, i believe it will for the right reasons not like America who flout every international law.
I find it very disturbing how people defend America's illegle actions and yet point there finger at a country who we are trying to provoke anyway.
if Iran does do something its because we keep medling in there private affairs and keep telling them what to do.
Posted by fatreg
Iranian state television has broadcast an interview with captured British female sailor Faye Turney and footage of 14 male captured colleagues.
Leading Seaman Turney, 26, said they had been seized in the Gulf because "obviously we trespassed" in Iranian waters - something the UK disputes.
She said her captors were "friendly", "thoughtful" people and she and her colleagues were unharmed.
The Foreign Office said the footage was "completely unacceptable".
Earlier Iran said it would release Leading Seaman Turney "very soon".
Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said she would be released on Wednesday or Thursday.
Earlier the UK said it was suspending bilateral contacts with Iran amid the dispute over Friday's incident in the Gulf.
Eight sailors and seven marines were taken at gunpoint by Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
They were seized after they had searched a merchant vessel.
'Issue under consideration'
Iran has insisted the group, based on HMS Cornwall, which has its home port in Plymouth, were in its waters when they were taken.
UK VERSION OF EVENTS
1 Crew boards merchant ship 1.7NM inside Iraqi waters
2 HMS Cornwall was south-east of this, and inside Iraqi waters
3 Iran tells UK that merchant ship was at a different point, still within Iraqi waters
4 After UK points this out, Iran provides alternative position, now within Iranian waters
Speaking on the sidelines of an Arab summit he was attending in Saudi Arabia Mr Mottaki said: "Today or tomorrow, the lady will be released."
He later told reporters: "The issue is under consideration. I think it will be solved soon based on rules and regulations. I think I have informed you that the lady will be released very soon."
His comments came shortly after Tony Blair said it was time to "ratchet up" pressure on Iran.
Earlier, the Ministry of Defence issued data it said proved the group had been 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi waters when they were seized.
Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff, Vice Admiral Charles Style, gave detailed co-ordinates which he said proved that.
The co-ordinates were 29 degrees 50.36 minutes north, 048 degrees 43.08 minutes east.
The MoD backed up its assertion by releasing a photograph of a handheld global positioning satellite device in HMS Cornwall's Lynx helicopter as it flew over the searched merchant vessel, confirming its position.
Vice Admiral Style said the sailors had been "ambushed" and their detention was "unjustified and wrong".
The UK government said the Iranians initially said the merchant vessel had been at a point within Iraqi waters, before later providing a second, alternative position, within Iranian waters.
Iran's embassy in London issued a statement in response to the UK data, in which it said the sailors and marines had been 0.5 km inside Iranian waters at the time they were seized.
The statement, quoted by the official IRNA news agency, said "the governments of Iran and Britain have the ability to solve the incident through contacts and close co-operation".
source
fatreg
Posted by BobaFett
well, they get well paid and guess they know what they do, so such kind of risk is in the military games incl...
no offence, but i cant feel sorry for soldiers, who DO know, that this apart of the world isnt a playground...
Posted by maggflodd
On 2007-03-28 19:15:00, BobaFett wrote:
well, they get well paid and guess they know what they do, so such kind of risk is in the military games incl...
no offence, but i cant feel sorry for soldiers, who DO know, that this apart of the world isnt a playground...
Posted by Xugaa
It shows though that it was actually Iran that crossed into Iraqi waters as opposed to us in theirs. I'm trying to find the BBC article with the satillite evidence produced to prove Iran wrong, but it's annoying trying to find old articles. Funny how they were released when the UK proved Iran's "mistake" to the world.
EDIT: Oops, my bad they haven't been released...
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-03-28 22:08 ]
Posted by axxxr
At the same time, Mr B-liar and Bush should stop hounding Iran aswell over there Nukes, and leave them alone.
Posted by Xugaa
No one said they've got nuclear weapons Axxxr, just that they are in the process of producing nuclear power and with the current leadership cannot in no way be trusted with it, just the same as with North Korea; fine North Korea have actually produced the weapons but it's based on the same level of mistrust that the vast majority of the world has for these two countries. Once nuclear power has fully been utilised within Iran they have the potential of creating nuclear weapons well within two years, and like it or not their dictator would very much enjoy the 'pleasure' to do so.
For example...
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said the Nazi Holocaust was in fact a "myth'', followed by also threatening Israel with an atomic attack.
Iran has been 'playing' about with nuclear energy for decades, although I am in no position to say whether Iran does in fact have nuclear weapons or not; for all we know they already do, and personally I'd rather not take the risk of waiting to find out. This is why it is important to be pressuring them at this moment in time, just as we are with North Korea. Also by the way, this isn't just the UK and USA holding sanctions on Iran; this involves the EU, other countries and the UN very much as well doing exactly the same thing.
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-03-28 22:11 ]
Posted by maggflodd
@ xugaa,
the only "dictatorshop", the only entity to have ever used a nuke in a conflict is "the greatest democracy on earth" - you know who... When Japan was absolutely ready to kick the emperor into unreserevedly capitulating! Therew are many indicators to prove that hiroshima and nagasaki werew mere last tests... As if the population was just a gathering of guineapigs!!! The same democracy is poisoning 100's of thousands incl. their own troops, using depleted uranium(what's the difference? One big bang or a thousand little ones - they are in longterm-effect nukes!). Pakistan is by all means a dictatorship - biggest supplier: weknowwho... Israel would have been punished for their illegal nukes by your beloved UN, but guess who vetoed every resolution(and there are almost too many to count - that's the UN for you)? So, according to statistics/historical precedence it's gonna be a great democracy to use a nuke next (oh, I forget France bombing a greenpeace ship to shut them up...another democratic act related to nukes). Pakistan, n-korea, iran... They have a lot to lose... They will not use the nukes. it'll be a country with the cocky self-assurance of getting away with everything that'll use it. now who could that be?
Posted by Xugaa
On 2007-03-28 22:32:40, maggflodd wrote:
A country with the cocky self-assurance of getting away with everything
E.g. Iran...
Posted by maggflodd
On 2007-03-28 23:14:46, Xugaa wrote:
On 2007-03-28 22:32:40, maggflodd wrote:
A country with the cocky self-assurance of getting away with everything
E.g. Iran...
Posted by Xugaa
Lol, calm down...
Did you know...?
After the "Popeye" comic strip was launched in 1931, spinach consumption went up by thirty-three percent in the United States.
In World War II, the German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.
Right, where were we?
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2007-03-28 22:33 ]