Posted by Mike.P®
Well I think I got to about the second line before giving up.
As for the W950i getting blocked I contacted PeterKay to say that I would not do that straight after he posted on here that he was the new owner.
But at the end of all your waffle basically I have a unusable 8800 and you have the funds from my W950i.
That really seems like a good deal to me.
Posted by T68iKING
I still think you should compensate Mike back; seems like your trying to avoid any costs on yourself - we all know the police or courts arent going to convict or compensate anyone back.
Do the right thing Topscooby, and give him his money back (you can both agree a figure if you prefer?), and track down the ebay seller yourself (you must have his details - home) or take lamont advice and sell on the 8800 outside the UK (should get at least £150), that way you wont be stung (totally anyway) by the deal.
I dont feel its right for mike having to take any burden of the barring of the phone, as he bought it off you on esato - no safety or security in place (just trust). However, you had ebay and paypal to help you, if they cant help, maybe implies you shouldn't use they serivces again. Though as a esato member, you have the choice/power to simply refund him, and try again at chasing the original seller.
P.S: in case your wondering, i dont know Mike at all - havent even done a deal with him either
and therefore wanted to illustrate it wasnt fair that you had your 'mates' put their bias view in the thread (though as its a free world....) 
Good luck anyway to the both of you.
Posted by koolezt
Maybe, a view from a disinterested 3rd. party might help. I'll try to take it step by step.
At the bottom of this, there's apparently a guilty party defrauding insurance or selling-on an unpaid-for contract phone or a careless victim misquoting an imei.
Topscooby is either that person or an accomplice or an innocent middleman.
Mike is the loser at the end of the chain and Topscooby is unwilling to carry the can, but says he is willing and able to co-operate in tracing the chain.
Those are the facts we know. (By the way, I'd guess most theft victims don't know their imei exists, far less the actual #. I've had a stolen phone blocked by identifying myself with contract details and phone #.)
Now for two conclusions and a question that should suggest a solution. First, Mike is out of pocket and all he has is an expensive papeweight. Second, the facts can only be found by official investigation, Mike can't do it on his own, and Topscooby's co-operation would make the job easier.
The question is: Starting from the present situation, what does Mike have to lose by putting the matter in the hands of the police, with Topscooby's promise of co-operation?
Posted by joebmc
Just wondering, can Topscooby prove the paypal dispute with the ebay seller?
Posted by Brnoblade
For what it's worth, here is my two penny worth.
Last year I traded a phone with zootzoot, which I bought off of a supposed mate. I tested it, and was well, so I advertised it, and struck a deal with zootzoot. Upon receiving the phone, which only took a couple of days, zootzoot informed me that the phone was blocked. So I felt it was my moral obligation to give zootzoot a full refund. He didnot have to ask, and to his credit, he was very civil about it. I refunded him and asked that he destroy the phone, as I did not want anything to do with dodgy dealings.
The onus was on me to retrieve my original outlay, which I did. It took me a while to catch up with the original seller, and me , not being the most tactful or tolerant of people, ranted and raved and demanded my money back. He said that he had nothing to give me, and if he had, he wouldn't hand it over. I saw red and gained some satisfaction, if you catch my drift. This is not the way to do things, and I cannot condone it, but it made me feel better. I am out of pocket, and still slightly peeved, but I now consider the subject closed.
Topscooby, give Mike a refund, and let's keep this forum a friendly place. You can start to recoup your outlay. Please do not go about it the same way as me as you could land yourself in serious trouble, but involve the proper authorities, whether it be the police, Ebay, Paypal or all three.
Well, that's my sayso. Sorry, if it goes on a bit.
Posted by Mike.P®
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How about the expensive paper weight if they decide to return it to the insurance company?
That would just be the icing on the cake wouldn't it.
I would then have nothing . the original seller would have the money from Topscooby and Topscooby would have the proceeds from MY W950i.
Posted by dougproctor
Mike. Your phone will eventually, no doubt, end up with the insurance company. And by the time the police etc have got their finger out and caught the criminal, it will be worth nothing anyway.
I was sold a phone on here by a well known member. It was blocked about two weeks later. I rang the member and within 20 minutes, the money was back in my bank account by bank transfer.
No hassle, no questions, just an apology for the trouble. Why should you have to bear the brunt of the enquiry for a not inconsiderable amount of money?
Posted by solidsingh
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im also interested in this because when i had a similar problem, i sold a phone and the buyer complained that it had more scratches than i described, he won ha nds down and got his money back
Posted by captainsm
I've had a few complaints registred with Ebay myself and my experience is that the buyer almost always get's out on the winning side.
Shipped a P990 to israel for 900 bucks when they were brand new. The buyer claimed it never got there and got his money back from my Paypal account.
I even provided info from the israeli post office that it was delivered, but still nothing.
Seems strange that scooby can't get the money back.
Posted by mrmilo69
If he's opened a dispute and it was settled, he cannot open another dispute about the same item, so what else can topscooby do? If he couldn't get paypal to do anything then, how will he now? Sell it in another region, best bet you'll recoup more than if the police get involved. It seems logical to me, you can ask topscooby to do something but you are being selfish to an extent. As long as you are not out of pocket you don't seem concerned, surely you should want to get to the bottom of this for the greater good of everyone or sell it in a different country and move on.
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all,
As i have already tried to make it as clear as possible so i will try and suggest the only way i can see to try and resolve this issue amicably as after all i do believe this is what every one involved would like to see.
Firstly the only person that can report it to the Police, E-Bay and Pay Pal is TopScooby as he is the only person that has proof of purchase from the original seller. Now if he was just selling a single phone and not a trader he would have to have to suffer the loss while refunding Mike and write it off. If he is a trader he will have to take it as a loss against profits already made and try and recover his losses from the original seller or more trades as that is just good business practice. As if not you will have ruined your reputation here as a trusted trader which i think must be worth more then the sum involved as i doubt any one would risk a trade with you ever again.
Mike you also need to return the phone to TopScooby as currently you are handling what appears to be stolen property which is a greater offence then actually stealing it. Now if TopScooby is unwilling to resolve the issue with Mike his only option will be to take it to the Police and report TopScooby as the seller of what now appears to be a stolen phone and here it could well get very messy and unpleasant for all involved.
If the seller is still registered or not with E-Bay they will be compelled to give the Police all his registration information plus bank account details and if he is a Power Seller i wonder if he has reported this additional income to the Inland Revenue. If as TopScooby says so far he has failed to respond to any of his E-mails or messages i would inform him that in a final message and marked as such that you have now had the phone returned to you and have had to reimburse the buyer and unless he is prepared to resolve the issue with you, you will have no other option than to report the matter to the Police. Which unless he is a complete scumbag or moron should make him see sense.
So yes TopScooby you will have lost the value of the phone and have to try and make this money back but IMO morally this is what you are obliged to do, you may not like it and it may be painful but IMO it is definitely the right thing to do. I am sure if the position was reversed you would expect the same treatment would you not?
Lastly as the only positive i could say to you is just think how this would enhance your reputation here as a trusted seller and someone that can be trusted to always do the right thing for any of your buyers which i am sure would result in you being able to get slightly more for anything you sold as people would know where they stand if there is a problem. So whilst any loss is hard to take I'm sure you could be make it back in a relatively short time. Obviously this is only my suggestion of how to resolve the issue and only you can decide what you are going to do but i would suggest thinking hard about what is right thing to do and all the consequences of your actions.
Marc
Posted by *Jojo*
I just made a READ-through with all of the POSTS here from page 1 to 5 (as of presstime . . .). I made a very CAREFUL observation with those of: Mike P., Topscooby, Peterkay and YES - Dogmann ! I agree with the latter's reply . . .
Since it's an all-star-Esatonian show here, minus the original owner of the Nokia 8800 though (where Topscooby bought it . . .).
My conclusion is that: First move, Peterkay should refund/return the
W950i (Mike P.'s) from - Topscooby, then Topscooby MUST return/refund all necessary original transactions they HAD last year with Mike P. . . . then it's TOPSCOOBY's duty now to have the MATTER, reported to the proper authorities or if a BETTER idea comes up . . . This is the FAIREST-solution-share that everyone can GET
I just hope that - Peterkay still HAS - Mike P.'s
W950i 
Posted by Miss UK
I bought a 7250i from somebody off here that turned out to be blacklisted aswell, I sent it back and got my cash back tho the guy didn't know what happened by it
it messed my sim card up tho wasn't pleased bout it nevertheless things were ok when I got a replacement
I dunno what to say it's a awkward position,
your best bet is perhaps sell it to someone else in another countries where it will work, ive seen auctions on ebay with blocked phones but they're sold to other countries cos they wont work in the Uk!
either that you can sell it for spares
hope that helps
Posted by Mike.P®
At the end of the day we all know what can be done with the phone but taking that way out would surely be more upsetting to Topscooby than him taking the phone back as he seems more than a little keen to point out the legal side of the problem when arguing against refunding my money.
If he is saying he should not have to pay me back as he would then be handling goods involved in a fraudulent claim (even though I have no involvement with the initial purchase and have no way of going after the original seller) then I cannot see that the problem should be solved by what could be classed as another "iffy" transaction.
I have though had a few pms from members here interested in the phone so we shall see, but obviously I will have to take a loss if any deal is made.
This also affects the integrity of every seller here in a roundabout way
because if Topscooby can just walk away from this sorry saga without even making a contribution to the loss then really the A-Z of sellers means nothing at all because he is a highly rated buyer/seller and I for one will not be doing any more buying from people on this forum. When it comes right down to it I have more chance solving a problem if I buy a phone from Ebay than here .. which is a very sorry state of affairs.
Personally I have sold phones that have gone on to be blocked and have ALWAYS refunded the buyer and then on to solve the problem myself, not always with the nicest of methods I admit, but always with results and it seems every other person on this thread that has had the same thing happen to them has also been refunded by a seller doing the right thing.
Posted by goldenface
Right heres my view. If Topscooby knew that the phone would be blocked then its my guess that he probably wouldn't of sold it on, so really you are both victims. You should split your losses and try and get your money back via the proper channels. Mike, unless you think Topscooby knew he was selling you a dodgy phone then you shouldn't really block his. So thats what it boils down to. What do you think?
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[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2007-02-17 10:13 ]
Posted by Mike.P®
I have already said that I am not going to block the W950i and that I will take a contribution towards my loss.
What more can I do?
Posted by lemmy31
I've been hanging around this forum since the days of the t68m, dont really contribute posts to any section apart from the phones for sale area, but reading this thread compelled me to reply.
At the end of the day, surely regardless of the situation in the eyes of the law or any other situation its all down to RESPONSIBLITY.
We all come here for information and help and sometimes to trade and sell handsets and we all have to be sure that if this situation arises again,as it will.....that we all take resonsibility for the items we sell or trade.We all buy, sell and trade phones regularly and cannot be sure that all the handsets we get are never going to get barred/ blocked etc, the business we all do in the for sale section is based on trust and if we are not going to stand up and be counted when things go wrong then the whole ethos of the site is brought into question.
We all have to forget the eyes of the law stance and do whats RIGHT, hope you get this sorted Mike.
Craig
Posted by goldenface
Surely, being able to sort out problems without going down the legal route is what makes trading here a good alternative, eh Scoob?
just my opinion. . .
Posted by Adi23
Whether TopScooby knew it was blocked or not is irrelevant and let's face it more than likely he did know it was blocked.
Mike needs to be refunded, there is no question about it. TopScooby sold him a phone which was not as described.
Posted by dougproctor
Adi23, that is probably not true about he knew it was blocked. Phones get blocked up until about a month or so after they've been traded. Depends when the seller reports it as stolen/lost etc. I would take that back and apologise.
I agree with you about the refund, that should happen. It's not Mike's fault, it rests with his seller and the ebay seller before him.
Doug
[ This Message was edited by: dougproctor on 2007-02-18 08:59 ]
Posted by tmagberry
I genuinely feel sorry for both parties, but unfortuately there remains both a moral stance and a legal stance. And it seems now that is where this all stands....
My understanding is:
...neither parties hold "Title" to the phone. That either remains to the very frst owner of the phone, or if the phone has been reported stolen, then the insurance company who has paid out on it are the legal owners, and unfortunately no one in the chain is in a position to do very much...no matter what has been paid where and how and with what proof.
And before anyone jumps on the "who's side are you on" bandwagon, I am just merely stating the legal standing...and not my opinion!
It a real shame for everyone involved apart from the idiot that barred the phone in the first place.
Good Luck in finding an agreable solution.
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[ This Message was edited by: tmag2005 on 2007-02-18 09:12 ]
Posted by Mike.P®
Well rather than face up to his responsibilities like a man and contribute something to my loss it seems Tobscooby has decided to skulk away and wash his hands of the problem completely.
I have heard nothing from him at all so would presume he is not going to do anything to help even though he has the money from the sale of MY W950i to Peterkay and I have a blocked phone.
I wonder if he would be so "ethical" if it had been the other way around .. somehow I doubt it but there you go, it must be nice to use your own interpretation of the law to walk away from something you are involved in with no cost to yourself.
Looks like I will have to get satisfaction another way.
Thanks to everyone who sent a PM of support and offering help .. and everyone on the thread who gave an opinion .. whatever it was
Please leave this open just in case .. although I don't hold out much hope to be honest.
Posted by Miss UK
Topscooby, just refund the cash back jeez!
Posted by luigithfc
i think you desreve to block YOUR w950i as he has given you a blocked and expensive phone. Then he will be in the same situation as you are in now but with peterkay wanting a refund... I think it's fair...
or you could agree the value of the phone and you should sell it and topscooby should pay you the difference. Or something like that...
but if he is ignoring you then you should do something about it.
Posted by leeboy13
personally, id refund the money to Mike P...... thing is Topscooby theres more than enough willing people on here who would have (im sure) helped you gte your original problem....
or worst case scenario id try and meet somewhere in the middle eg: sell the blocked phone and both of you split the costs, at least that way, one person alone aint getting ripped off... and although in my opinion neither party is to blame, id also say neither party is right... therefor come to a mutual agreement and keep esato a safe place to trade
a sort of simular situation happened between myself and LukeBonathan in which an item i sent him broke after minimal use...... we sorted all this out ourselves and probably both ended up slightly out of pocket but at least one of us didnt feel cheated... (well i hiope you didnt luke
)
all the best Mike P and Topscooby
Posted by PeterKay
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This would then screw me up!
Posted by leeboy13
exactly peter Kay..........
what ever happens dont lower yourself Mike P.....
what goes around comes around.....
Posted by PeterKay
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Absolutley true.
Posted by goldenface
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How will leaving two people with blocked phones resolve anything. Plus, Mike has already said he won't.
Posted by tsj
Instead of having a complete loss.. why not sell the phone as spares/repairs? You've clearly paid for the phone and you are now the owner i guess?
Posted by fatreg
as they say, possession is 9/10 of the law...
fatreg
Posted by dougproctor
tsj - what a stupid thing to say! Paid £200, sell for about £50ish IF someone will buy it. I don't think you can sell blocked phones on ebay now - they pull the listing. Limits your options. Mike's seller has done himself no good whatsoever on this site. You would think he had been around long enough to know the right way to deal with this. A refund - nothing less. If this transaction had happened on ebay by Paypal, he would have had his money back by now.
Do the right thing, Topscooby, and refund the man.
Posted by 6230
Topscooby, what a post! I see where you are coming from
Posted by Miss UK
Did he say which network it was originally got from if it was a contract phone?
maybe phoning them may be a idea and telling them whats happened literally
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all
TopScooby last posted 5 days ago in this thread after which 4 days ago i posted what i thought might be able to draw this matter to an amicable close. With many plus points being gained by TopScooby obviously i was wrong to assume that TopScooby was a man of honor and that his status as a trusted trader here meant something.
To be completely honest i am appalled at his actions or to be more precise lack of them. I don't know about anyone else but i wouldn't buy or sell with him now if he was the only person left on here trading. His actions are unjustifiable and appear to be totally lacking in morals. All i can say is his is dam lucky i wasn't the lucky winner or as it turns out unlucky winner of this auction as i did try and buy this phone as have wanted one for quite some time. I most certainly wouldn't let it rest as don't take kindly to being ripped off whether his fault or not if i had bought it from him i would hold him to account and as he would of taken my money would expect him to pay me back and this he would do trust me. This would also most probably incur further cots for him above the cost of the phone but i would return the phone and get my money back all of it as after all he would of been the one to of taken my money. I suppose now he has crawled back under his rock where he obviously belongs.
I should point out i have never met or dealt with Mike or TopScooby so hold no personal relationships or friendships with either. I just believe in people doing the right thing and taking responsibility for their actions and am a man of my word and honorable obviously something he isn't. A very sorry state of affairs and really not what i expected from a so called respected member of this forum. I am sure Mike will survive but do think this is a very unfair end to the whole situation. But as a great believer in Karma TopScooby will eventually get what he deserves of that i am sure.
Marc
Posted by koolezt
you're in a real fired-up mood tonight!
Posted by mrmilo69
why can't he just sell it abroad? He'll recoup a lot more than just "spares and repairs " money out. It's not a refund, but it could work out to be just as good, although perhaps a little bit more work on your part.
Posted by PeterKay
blocked phones, do they work in any other country apart from the UK!!
Posted by >500
i think they might pk... but get some one to confirm for you.
Posted by Mike.P®
They work in most countries and to be honest that is what I will probably end up doing .. but then at the end of the day that is not the point.
Topscooby makes such a big thing of the fact he will not refund me as he will then be involved in a fraud (which he is already by my reckoning) but the only way I can recoup some of my money is by selling the phone abroad .. which I have to do because of him .. this is just as bad in my book.
This post is now not so much about the blocked phone because I can see from Topscoobys silence that he is not going to do the right thing by contributing to my loss but more to do now with his integrity and the fact that a trusted seller on here can just walk away from a situation that he is involved in with no consequences to himself.
Posted by >500
what phones are these? i will buy them
cant be bothered reading this whole thread
let me know
Posted by Mike.P®
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http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=136079&start=0
Posted by Ridahz
Jedi am pretty sure the blocked 8800 will work in Oz...
And im sure you was after one?
Sorry if this sounds like a useless post btw.
Posted by Mike.P®
Hmm, still not a word from Topscooby.
Im going to keep this alive for a while I think.
Posted by 6230
Just a suggestion ( mentioned alraedy) why odont you sell it to people outside the UK? you could get your money back easily that way, maybe you wont be happy doing that but at least you would get your money back?
Posted by solidsingh
sell it on french ebay, you should get all the money back that you paid for it,
@topscooby, what comes around does go around and its only a matter of time until something like this happens to you and it will be 10 x worse
Posted by Dogmann
Hi all,
I am quite sure Mike is more than aware of his options re selling abroad but out of interest lets say he sold it to some one in France,
What happens when that person tries to visit London will it still work with his French Sim Card or will it stop working because he has a blocked IMEI phone?
Also i believe Mike like myself believes in a little thing called Karma and sometimes money is not the be all and end all of any situation plus of course the classic two wrongs don't make a right.
Marc
Posted by Mike.P®
It was never really about the money .. I have always known how to get rid of the phone .. It was more about doing the right thing .. something Topscooby seems to know nothing about. He does however seem to know something about going to ground and hiding.
As Marc says, I am a real believer in bad Karma and one day, when least expected it always comes back to bite you on the bum
Sometimes sooner than later.
Posted by solidsingh
yep mike p
it really does bite you in the bum when you least expect it
Posted by koolezt
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It was never really about the money .. ... .. It was more about doing the right thing |