Posted by goldenface
@Joebmc
That is indeed true, infact both have become economic powerhouses, both are independent and Japan especially enjoys a high standard of living.
Posted by scotsboyuk
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Hardly. Most of the world realsies what a nutjob Kim Jong Il actually is and that his regime presents a very real danger to world peace. Even China has been taking a tougher stance on North Korea. Most of the world, including the U.S., doesn't want a war on the Korea Peninsula, however, I don't think many would object to the U.S. acting to stop North Korea should it decide to start a war.
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The U.S. would only use nuclear weapons if North Korea used them first. The U.S. knows how much is at stake, and wouldn't risk the repercussions of a nuclear attack unless a nuclear option was absolutely necessary.
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The U.S. wouldn't 'leave'. What would probably happen is that South Korean troops would take control of the North with a view to the eventual reunification of the two Koreas. The U.S. for its part would probably seek to help rebuild North Korea as it did with Germany and Japan after WWII. Not only is this a good move in terms of the humanitarian situation, it also solidifies U.S. influence in the region.
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Declaring war would be tough in the present climate. However, if the North launched an attack on the South then I think U.S. public opinion would probably be for helping South Korea. If the North were to use a nuclear weapon on either the U.S. or one of its allies then U.S. public opinion would almost certainly be for doing whatever was necessary to stop North Korea.
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I agree that the solution must be a diplomatic one, the alternatives are far too horrible to contemplate. However, if it comes down to war then the U.S. can and will act. It would certainly be better for the U.S. if it had support in such a war beyond South Korea and Japan, but to be frank the U.S. doesn't need support if it really sets its mind to defeating North Korea.
China and Russia could protest all they want, but if the U.S. felt that it had to act then there wouldn't be much either could do to stop it short of war, which I doubt either would risk over North Korea. Simply put, the U.S. is powerful enough to force its will through when encessary. If it is pushed too far then there is no country that is capable of opposing it.
Posted by *Jojo*
I am NOT sure if the inevitable attack on Pyangyang WAS included in Nostradamus' crystal ball
The WAR in the gulf (90's) was made mention and the FALL of the TWIN towers !
Posted by Bandit
@scotsboyuk...
the diatribe was meant for people like jojo who think that the US should bomb all members of the 'axis of evil'. i realise that there's more to it. i didn't want to make my diatribe too long.
You're absolutely right that the US is VERY unlikely to call a pre-emptive strike let alone nuke anyone just cos.
As for China and Russia. I'm not sure that the US is prepared to go up against both of them at the same time at this juncture.
~LB
Posted by *Jojo*
@bandit - Well . . . . having seen and watched the FLAWs in US style-attacks .. . well, I can just say that it would just be one of their LAST recourse - Nuke Bomb, . . . they are NOT that good anymore with their ground-deployment-attack-strategies . . . so, why WASTE sooooo much money (again, if ever . . .)
There's a saying that: He who LAUGHS last . . . HAS the Nuke !
Posted by scotsboyuk
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Dash it man, don't be afraid to string these things out! It's a glorious day for me to see someone else having a jolly good ramble. Huzzah I say!
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I don't think it is necessarily a question of the U.S. 'going up against' them, rather them going up against the U.S. If the U.S. considers an atatck necessary then both China and Russia have to decide whether or not it is worth opposing the U.S.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-10-19 03:56 ]
Posted by gelfen
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On 2006-10-19 04:56:34, scotsboyuk wrote: |
and whether or not they feel that opposing the US and preventing a greater american presence in the region is worth more than a nuclear and unpredictable NK.
Posted by Bandit
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HAHA....yes. a good diatribe is glorious. except that i don't have time to elaborate (actually, it's called being LAZY).
as for the US vs. RU&CN. I don't see it happening anytime soon. All parties have too much at stake to head into battle. Besides. Chinese people don't care about peace and stability, so long as there's $$$ to be made! PUWHAHAHAHAA =)~
~LB
Posted by *Jojo*
. . . and I AGREE with that . . . Chinese people don't CARE much as LOOOONG as the Cash Register is ticking every second !
Posted by goldenface
That wasn't a very nice thing to say!
Millions of chinese people live in poverty too.
Posted by Johnex
yeah, but just about the same amount are rich too
Posted by Davo_169
theyre good at building walls
Posted by goldenface
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No-one is as well off as the Swedes. They have the highest standard of living in the World don't they?
Posted by goldenface
U.S. tracking N Korean ship with banned military equipment
Friday, October 20, 2006 at 09:19 EDT
WASHINGTON — U.S. intelligence has detected the departure from a North Korean port of a North Korean ship suspected of carrying military equipment banned under a U.N. sanctions resolution against Pyongyang's Oct 9 nuclear test, CBS News reported Thursday.
The United States is tracking the ship, CBS said, noting that it remains uncertain exactly what the ship is carrying and where it is headed. Should the ship be confirmed to be loaded with nuclear, missile or other related materials, it could be subject to the first maritime inspection under the sanctions resolution adopted unanimously Saturday by the U.N. Security Council.
© 2006 Kyodo News.
Posted by Danny_BFC
I wonder were thats going..
Posted by goldenface
Lets see what happens if it gets stopped and boarded
It might be the catalyst....
Posted by Bandit
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Absolutely. And they don't care about what's going on in the world because they're too busy trying to put food on the table.
Hierarchy of Needs mate. Only people complaining about these people living in poverty are white, middle class, women who have nothing better to do with their time. You know, the same group of people that think that minimum wage should be $10/hr. PUWHAHAHAHHA
(yes, I'm being confrontational. i'm just playing...sort of).
My point is....esp. with Chinese. The world revolves around money. I'm allowed to say that. i'm Chinese. PUWHAHAHHA =)~
~LB
Posted by Bandit
From this morning's post.
SEOUL — North Korean leader Kim Jong Il said Pyongyang didn't plan to carry out any more nuclear tests and expressed regret about the country's first-ever atomic detonation last week, South Korean news reports said Friday.
WOOHOO! Crisis averted =)~
~LB
Posted by goldenface
Yeah. I was just reading that.
I'm sorry, says Korea's Kim
Oct. 20, 2006. 11:27 AM
BURT HERMAN
ASSOCIATED PRESS
SEOUL — North Korean leader Kim Jong Il said Pyongyang didn't plan to carry out any more nuclear tests and expressed regret about the country's first-ever atomic detonation last week, South Korean news reports said Friday.
Kim told Chinese State Councilor Tang Jiaxuan that "we have no plans for additional nuclear tests," Yonhap news agency reported, citing an unnamed diplomatic source in Beijing.
Kim also told the Chinese that "he is sorry about the nuclear test," the mass-circulation Chosun Ilbo daily reported, citing a diplomatic source in China. The North Korean also raised the possibility the country would return to arms talks.
Posted by Bandit
*sigh*. There goes this thread =)~
~LB
Posted by joebmc
Kim Jong Il still a crazy guy tho, i read that the NK capitol does not allow pregnet women or old people in it because Kim dont like the look of them
Posted by Davo_169
hah what a legend...wish i had that kind of power...id get rid of everyone that wasnt me
Posted by goldenface
Drat! I was looking forward to a good barney,
Joke!
Lets hope for some peace and stability in the Far East. I was worried for our Japanese and Korean friends for a bit.
Posted by axxxr
10 Things You Didn't Know About Kim Jong Il
source
1. Most people say he was born in Siberia in 1941, when his father, Kim Il Sung, was in exile. The \"official\" account states that he was born in 1942 in a log cabin on a mountain, and there was a double rainbow to mark the occasion. His name as a child was \"Yura.\"
2. His younger brother drowned in a pond in 1948; his mother died a year later.
3. He rode a motorcycle to high school.
4. He graduated from Kim Il Sung University in 1964 with a degree in political economy.
5. He has allegedly written over 1,000 books and six operas and designed a tower to commemorate his father.
6. He did not allow his voice to be broadcast until 1992.
7. He has at least six children by three different mothers and perhaps more.
8. He sleeps only four hours per day.
9. He wears platform shoes to mask his short stature.
10. He likes movies. A lot. He is said to own over 20,000 and claims to have watched every Oscar winner.
Posted by *Jojo*
11. He has a half-brother . . . named, Mentally Il !
Posted by REO
An interesting historical fact........
All though many countries have tested their nuclear arsenal, no country other than the U.S. has used it in warfare. (Hiroshima, Nagasaki).
For all we know, N.Korea could have some duds. Does anyone really know whether they will work? This could all be a bluff .......
Just food for thought.......... We really don't know...
In the end, we all want peace....... War doesn't resolve the worlds problems. Communication is the ultimate solution to world peace.
Posted by axxxr
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Nice words there REO!
Posted by *Jojo*
@willie - Pyongyang and Iran only KNOWS two words when they want to communicate about - PEACE . . . . = Nuclear Bomb !
Posted by REO
@Axxxr, Thanks!
@ Jojo, That is true..... We can only wish, communication will prevail.......
Posted by *Jojo*
Oh how I just LOVE to see the TWO complimenting each other here
Looks like you are after all . . . soul mates
@willie - That's kinda hard . . . only a DIVINE intervention can make that happen . . . thanks for the SMS too pal !
Posted by axxxr
Possible future scenario?
It all started in November of 2008. After the nuclear war with North Korea devastated several American cities, the current President George W Bush assumed complete control over the government and refused to leave office, nullifying the elections. Peaceful protests sprang up all over the country. The National Guard was deployed and by early December several protesters were captured or killed.
Many left the country. Soon, the amount of refugees became a problem for the rest of the world. All around the globe borders started to close. In early 2009 the fifth Patriot act was passed and prohibited Americans from traveling abroad without special permission papers. We became prisoners. Curfews were enacted and in some regions the sight of military personnel on street corners became all too common.
The government began to control the press with an iron fist. It became a crime to speak out against the United States and even foreign journalists were kidnapped and tortured. The internet was hit the hardest. Many bloggers were arrested and detained indefinitely. A new task force was created in order to deal with “cyber crimes”. Free thinkers everywhere were targeted and nearly wiped from the face of the earth.
By 2010 a small group of insurgents had formed a new political party. The New American Revolutionaries, as they were known in the beginning, were a group dedicated to a peaceful solution to the current government. They began to garner a measure of support amongst the American people despite the fact that many of them were now wanted criminals.
It was the night of December 9th, 2011, that would change the world forever. Seven high ranking members of the rebellious political party were captured by American soldiers and subsequently executed on national television. This was meant to have the effect of crushing the rebellion forever. What happened next was just the opposite.
Americans everywhere took up arms against our leaders. Chancellor Bush declared martial law. There were reports of massive desertions in the military. Many were joining the revolution. On Christmas day, 2011, the first battle took place for the city of San Francisco. 25,000 Americans died in that battle. The rebels had taken a base. The civil war had begun.
Neighborhoods were torn apart. All semblance of normal life in America had been destroyed. Even small rural towns became war zones. By 2014 nearly half of the population had been wiped out. The rebellion held much of the west coast while the republic held the east. The Midwest was literally ripped apart.
It wasn’t until 2018 that the tide of the war changed. The rebellion had taken control of Florida and was poised to make a push for DC. Up to this point, the European nations had taken a hands-off policy on the situation in the US. In late November, a coalition of six nations (Including Great Britain, Germany, France, China, Russia, and Holland) agreed to send troops to aid the rebellion. On the 1st of December, the attack was launched.
The body of the Chancellor was found slumped over his desk in the oval office. He had shot himself in the head with a revolver as soon as it became evident the allies were closing in and his army was defeated. The rest of his administration was arrested and tried for treason as well as war crimes dating back to 2003. The republic had fallen. The war was over.
We had lost everything. However, for the first time since 1776, we were also free to do anything.
It was the beginning of a new world...
Posted by brix25
@axxxr: Highly unlikely...ever heard of checks and balances? I know at times it might seem that Repugnants have got their fingers in every pie but I still have faith in the American democratic system.
Posted by axxxr
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I believe that died a long time ago!
Posted by brix25
I'd have the US and it's BS everyday as opposed to a world where the likes of Iran/DPRK sets the agenda...then again I don't think they've got any ambitions for world domination.
Posted by axxxr
whats wrong with Iran?...its not a dictatorship and they aren't after world domination like the U.S.
Posted by scotsboyuk
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You mean apart from the fact that ultimate power resides with an unelected religious leader and that its President has denied the Holocaust and the same President has talked about Israel being wiped of the map?
Posted by scotsboyuk
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Let's have a look then ...
A few things wrong here. First of all the idea of a nuclear war with North Korea and the devastation of 'several American cities'. North Korea possesses, at most, a handful of nuclear weapons, which may not even work properly. Furthermore it does not yet possess a reliable long range delivery system. The U.S. has been trialing a missile defence shield. The only way for North Korea to reliably attack the U.S. mainland with nuclear weapons at present would be to smuggle them into America or get them close enough on ships. Neither undertaking would be easy given that North Korea's nuclear weapons are likely fairly large devices, and not best suited to discretion. Any movement of suspicious ships of the U.S. coast would no doubt be tracked, and again the above missile defence shield may come into play.
Of course this all assumes that North Korea launches an attack, which they are unlikely to do unless the regime there feels it is about to loose power.
How would an American president become a dictator? The office of President does not have unlimited powers and Congress could impeach and remove a President. A president would need a huge Congressional majority of loyal supporters to make changes to the constitution. Given that not even all Republicans are 100% loyal to the Bush Administration, much less Democrats and independents, I can't see this being a viable possibility. The system in the U.S. was designed with various checks and balances to prevent such things from happening. Given that the U.S. has gone through sever crisis before and a dictator has never appeared I would say that that system appears to be functioning rather well.
Whoever wrote this scenario was obviosuly influenced by Nazi Germany, with references to 'Chancellor' and suicide of the dictator.
Posted by *Jojo*
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I would rather want the US of A dominate the world instaed of the members of the axis-of-evil countries bein' seen on the helm . . .
I've seen some reports made by CNN some years back . . . many people of Pyangyang are starving to death, children primarily . . . and look what the Il (l) man of that country is focusing on makin' . . . nukes
!
Posted by axxxr
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Unelected leader which the people of Iran support,western democracy style rules don't apply in certain countries don't forget,Iran being a Islamic Religious state different rules govern the system of elections.
for him to deny the holocaust maybe a bit extreme i understand,but thats proberbly due to his bitterness towards Israel....His talk of wipeing Isreal of the map is is part of that aswell,..Israel is occupying stolen Palestinian land so calling for the destruction of it is a natural thing to say for him....The problems in that region have existed only because of the constant injustice and inhumane treatment of the Palestianians by Israel...Until a Palestinian state is created neighbouring countries such as Iran will always have extreme views towards them...I myself am against a single state of Israel with the Palestinians having no place to go....A Two state solution is the only way forward if everyone is to peacefully co-exist!
Posted by REO
If N Korea would even make the slightest attempt against the U.S.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki would seem like a fire cracker after a U.S. response on N. Korea.
I guess other countries look at the U.S.'s caution on world affairs, issues and certain wars as weakness.
Make no mistake about it.... a serious threat would be dealt with, in such force the world has never seen.
Israel is another force to be reckoned with. ( These boys don't play ) ......
Posted by *Jojo*
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Yeah . . . and Lebanon just got a PIECE of their arsenal some months back
Posted by axxxr
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Without the U.S Israel is nothing,...Israel would be eaten alive by neighbouring countries,.if it was'nt backed by the U.S....It owes its whole existence to america.
Posted by brix25
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You're right they're not after world domination in the classic colonial sense.
They want to export their ideology to other countries...basically their view of Islam. That's the problem people have with Iran, it's citizens are cool but the (religious) leaders are nut cases....and even though it's a supposed democracy the zealots can't be unseated...so even if you're someone like Mohamad Khatami and reform-minded the mullahs will block any sort of change which weakens their position.
DPRK is also not after world domination...all they want to do is own nuclear weapons...basically what the world is saying is that id you own possess these weapons you should be held accountable...problem is they don't want to be held accountable to common norms and standards.
God forbid, Kim Jong Il dies of a heart-attack will watching his favourite porn movie and the country is left without a leader.
Just a parting shot. Israel has nuclear weapons but it will only use them against it's neighbours when faced with a grave danger to it's state...right now they don't have to because no-one possess the threat to wipe them off the map.
Posted by goldenface
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I think the tone of the Israeli response is now starting to change.
Recently, after another one of Ahmadinejads fiery speechs, threatening Israel again, discussions were going on about whether or not Israel should respond sooner or later to this mounting threat and whether it should strike first.
If Ahmadinejad keeps on making these threats to 'get rid of Israel' then undoubtedly it will have to act soon. If it was to sit back and do nothing and wait for the 1st strike against them it will be too late to act.
Posted by brix25
@goldenface: Ahmadinejad is basically spewing rethoric...he knows that it's not in his interest to start firing off missiles. The safer option still remains to fund resistance groups like Hezbollah and Shiite militias in Iraq.
Posted by goldenface
@brix25
Probably, but when are people to start believing these threats?
How do we know when to start taking these threats seriously?
Posted by aragorn666
why are everyone afraid of n koreas nuclear pollicy
Posted by aragorn666
why dioes countries having nuclear power does not let let other countries acheive that
Posted by joebmc
@aragorn666
I think your find the answer on page 6 of this thread.
Posted by axxxr
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Because the countries that have the Nukes want to hold the ultimate power...which puts them in a better position to threaten and bully weaker nations.
Thats why i think their should be no double standards,everyone should be allowed to have nukes,if a rouge state like Israel can have them then why not anybody else.