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Sound quality : K800 is worse than K750?


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Posted by sapibobo
Hai all,

i am an ex user of K750. That phones is rock and one of the best phone i ever own and use extensively. I really like the camera and music ability even though it is a non-walkman phone. I usually paired it with HPM-70 and found the sound quality better than with its original headset.

Just upgraded to K800. Screen is great, generally K800 is everything should-be-previous-K-series. Better and larger screen, jumped-up resolution, upgraded menu system, etc ... and of course the camera.

I really enjoying this phone, asides its flimsy prone-to-scratch camera sliding cap and larger dimension. But what really annoys me is that the sound quality is worse than K750.

What i mean is the sound quality through a headset. Dont get me wrong, they sound fine, but it worse than the dynamic output k750 produced through its headset. I tested with various AAC songs that i have.

I tried to pair it with HPM-70 and WTF.... it is sound even worse than with its original headset. I use HPM-70 with K750 with no issues and really enjoying its sound quality. Tips for you guys of K800 owner, just stick with its original headset and forget the cool stylish walkman headset.

I am curious to HBH-DS970 Stereo Bluetooth Headset. What i understand is, since the sound is transfered through radio wave (via A2DP Profile), this headset should have its own DAC and independent amplifier thus should sound different than wired stereo headset. Anyone test this headset with K800? I want to buy it but a bit afraid if it is just sound the same (HBH-DS970 price is still expensive in my area).



Is there any chances that SE deliberately crippled this phone DAP ability in favor of camera functions? Any future firmware upgrade might resolves this issue? If SE have a plan of future walkman phone release based on K800 than the hardware should not be much different and maybe its just the same component (likewise K750 and W800)- so this problems can be fixed via firmware upgrade.

[ This Message was edited by: sapibobo on 2006-09-12 08:48 ]

[ This Message was edited by: sapibobo on 2006-09-12 08:51 ]


Posted by strizlow800
Thanks for the information. I really didn't know that the sound on K800 is worse than K750, even on the headset! But, it shouldn't be like that. K800 is pretty new model so it has to be freed from the old typical disadvantages of the previous SE phones, but after all, K800 is phone made mainly for taking pictures with its 3MP camera. It is not a walkman phone.

Posted by QVGA
Walkman, or non-walkman, if its true, its a stupid move.

Posted by jj03
i dn't believe it to be worse than the k750i at all...i'd say it's slightly better.

Posted by marktang
yup i think the sound is better than the k750 actually.....its very similar to the w series.

Posted by sapporobaby
The HBH-DS970 is great and sounds great in my opinion. I am disappointed that I can not use my Etymotic or Ultimate Ears headphones with it but you can't have everything.

Get over the conspiracy theory. Do you really think that SE would damage something so that something else is better? Did you think this through? Anyway, the short answer is NO.

Posted by DragonEye
my k790/800 sounds better then any SE i've used to date k750/w600/800/810/900, m600

lacks the megabass but.. sounds is clearer and cleaner, has the fade in and out capabilites and no hiss at all. using the hpm-70's headphones for comparison

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[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2006-09-12 20:26 ]

Posted by dcbastable
I have to say that the sound quality on my K800i has so far been perfectly ok. Perhaps you just have a faulty unit!

Posted by BobaFett
next to it k8 is focused for the cam, w models are more focused for mp3 features

This message was posted from a E50-1

Posted by $hé®îNghÀm3:16
I have this same problem. My k750i sounds exactly the same as my w810i they're so identical besides the menus and sound amazing. Much better than any ipods i've owned. Ive recently purchased a k800i and too realise how much they've reduced the quality. It isnt even half as loud, no bass what so ever, no clear midtones. Its absoultely awful and for somone to have this phone and say its better than even the k750i for sound is ludacris, UNLESS off course we've got different quality in sound due to firmware?

But im really dissapointed if sonyericsson have purposely done this because the seperation in walkman and cybershot is gettin ridiculous. Customers should be able to get the whole package like many before me have said. And to cripple sound quality just because they'd be competing with themselves (walkman) will turn away customers.

Posted by jucame
All this is true, i have talk about this many times here in esato forums, as far as i know and i work with sound and music area, the sound of K800 is far away from my W800 and my W810 which is great, SE please take at least the compressor you have added to our K800´s, no dynamics, worst trebles, bad bass etc. i use UM2 headphones to test and Shure E5c with my SE mobiles by the way.

Posted by DragonEye
Quote:

On 2006-09-13 01:52:49, jucame wrote:
All this is true, i have talk about this many times here in esato forums, as far as i know and i work with sound and music area, the sound of K800 is far away from my W800 and my W810 which is great, SE please take at least the compressor you have added to our K800´s, no dynamics, worst trebles, bad bass etc. i use UM2 headphones to test and Shure E5c with my SE mobiles by the way.



the first thing i noticed on my k800i and k790a was that the sound quality was better then any previous se phone i've used.. firmware is r1cc003

Posted by sapibobo
Finally i have some people with similar experiences.

I run SEUS and it said i already have the newest firmware.

I am not sure that i have faulty K800 unit. Other features works perfect, camera works great, nice screen, good reception, etc - asides some minor bugs - mind you, but that is a different story.

I tried my friend K800 and it is still sound the same! My friend really amazed when he listen to K750 and hardly believe how can a newer model have worse sound quality.

If i have a defect unit then it should be a batch of units that have this similar problem.

I strongly suggest any prospect buyer of K800 to test the device whenever possible before taking it out the store and comparing it to k750 or other walkman series.

I hope in the future firmware release they will fix this. K800 that i purchased is not suitable as DAP. It need further sound tuning. The output is fine but lack of dynamics that K750 produce.

Posted by Tervel
have you perhaps tried different encoding, different formats? I'd try mp3 comparison, maybe when comparing regular aac it is worse, but then again, the K790/800 is capable of aac+ or eaac if I'm not mistaken. Maybe it excels at those formats while the regular AAC format is degraded (for whatever reason).

Just a thought.

Posted by sapibobo
I have a bunch of AAC and MP3 songs. And the test is to compare the same song played in K750 and K800. And obviously K750 sound better.

However, AAC is sound better than MP3 in any SE phone that i ever tried : S700, K750, K600 -- and even K800 still inherit this condition, only generally sound worse.

I also have a bunch of atrac3plus songs. Codec that Sony Walkman line have been use for years (with all of its variants). And to me Sony Walkman DAP with this codec is far better than any SE phones with AAC and MP3 decoder.
It just that sometimes i like to bring only the phone while still having my songs and not bring two separate devices altogether. If M2 finally breaks 2 GB i definitelly will buy one (currently have 1GB) - if this phone have some juices to folds up my ear.

So i ends up triplicate my collection in my 40 GB hardisk specialized for songs. I already have too many codecs. I cannot 'mentally' afford to re-rip everything again to AAC+ or whatever AAC descendants might be there.




Posted by frajam88
Now this is wierd. I have a k750i and ive had a listen to my mates k800i. The k750i sounded miles better even when i played with the equalizer. I used to have a sony walkman nwa1000 and tht sounded really crap in comparisson to the k750i even at a high bitrate. I dont get how the k750i can sound so good, in my case, better than a dedicated mp3 player!?

Posted by jucame
That is true also on W800 and W810, cristal sound, lot of power, great superbass with good earphones is great idea, and no compression at all, try give volume to your K800 and you will see the compressor is there and that is bad for music, give volume to your K750,W800,W810 and your ears will hurt big diference, dynamics are there not in our K800, if SE takes out the compression we then have a great as walman sound in our K800, sure it makes a diference.

Posted by Spawn
Quote:

On 2006-09-12 09:45:53, sapibobo wrote:
Hai all,

i am an ex user of K750. That phones is rock and one of the best phone i ever own and use extensively. I really like the camera and music ability even though it is a non-walkman phone. I usually paired it with HPM-70 and found the sound quality better than with its original headset.

Just upgraded to K800. Screen is great, generally K800 is everything should-be-previous-K-series. Better and larger screen, jumped-up resolution, upgraded menu system, etc ... and of course the camera.

I really enjoying this phone, asides its flimsy prone-to-scratch camera sliding cap and larger dimension. But what really annoys me is that the sound quality is worse than K750.

What i mean is the sound quality through a headset. Dont get me wrong, they sound fine, but it worse than the dynamic output k750 produced through its headset. I tested with various AAC songs that i have.

I tried to pair it with HPM-70 and WTF.... it is sound even worse than with its original headset. I use HPM-70 with K750 with no issues and really enjoying its sound quality. Tips for you guys of K800 owner, just stick with its original headset and forget the cool stylish walkman headset.

I am curious to HBH-DS970 Stereo Bluetooth Headset. What i understand is, since the sound is transfered through radio wave (via A2DP Profile), this headset should have its own DAC and independent amplifier thus should sound different than wired stereo headset. Anyone test this headset with K800? I want to buy it but a bit afraid if it is just sound the same (HBH-DS970 price is still expensive in my area).



Is there any chances that SE deliberately crippled this phone DAP ability in favor of camera functions? Any future firmware upgrade might resolves this issue? If SE have a plan of future walkman phone release based on K800 than the hardware should not be much different and maybe its just the same component (likewise K750 and W800)- so this problems can be fixed via firmware upgrade.

[ This Message was edited by: sapibobo on 2006-09-12 08:48 ]

[ This Message was edited by: sapibobo on 2006-09-12 08:51 ]



Interesting post but i find my k800i absolutely spot on audio wise, its nice and bassy and seems pretty clear to me. At the moment ive been using teh hbh ds970 bt headset and it sounds superb through the k800i. Tried it with my p990i and it sounded terrible but thats the p990i...awful audio if you ask me.

So far i havent had any problems with my k800i and the hbh ds970 headset.

Posted by jj03
i agree...i don't know what went wrong with the p990's audio...it's awful.

Posted by sapporobaby
@Spawn,

I agree. The k800i is great. Sounds great when using either the HBH-DS970 or if I use the HPM-70, with my Etimotic or Ultimate ears. I am sort of at a lose as to what people expect from these all in one devices.These phones are designed primarily to make phone calls. The added bells and whistles are there to entice the buy away from another brand. It is called marketing.

Posted by jucame
We expect it to be at least as one of the same brand like K750, like W800 or as a W810 no more no less.

Posted by jj03
Quote:

On 2006-09-14 08:18:40, sapporobaby wrote:
@Spawn,

I agree. The k800i is great. Sounds great when using either the HBH-DS970 or if I use the HPM-70, with my Etimotic or Ultimate ears. I am sort of at a lose as to what people expect from these all in one devices.These phones are designed primarily to make phone calls. The added bells and whistles are there to entice the buy away from another brand. It is called marketing.




of course...but it's not really unreasonable to expect good sound in a device which is advertised as a premium device is it?

Posted by DragonEye
Quote:

On 2006-09-14 18:13:25, jj03 wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-09-14 08:18:40, sapporobaby wrote:
@Spawn,

I agree. The k800i is great. Sounds great when using either the HBH-DS970 or if I use the HPM-70, with my Etimotic or Ultimate ears. I am sort of at a lose as to what people expect from these all in one devices.These phones are designed primarily to make phone calls. The added bells and whistles are there to entice the buy away from another brand. It is called marketing.




of course...but it's not really unreasonable to expect good sound in a device which is advertised as a premium device is it?



i just compared the same song, same headphones from my k750i(newest firmware vs k800i and still the k800i sounds better (clearer and cleaner sounds) however it does not pack as much bass (no megabass) and is not as loud.

aac 160kb track
_________________
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[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2006-09-14 23:15 ]

Posted by kalleboo
One of the first things I noticed on my K800 was the horrible audio quality. It seems to lack clarity, details and dynamics - everything is muddy, and it lacks in volume. Especially when you hook it up to a home stereo with the RCA music cables - then you can really tell how horrible it is.

I got the HBH-DS970, and they sound amazing. They're even better than the K750+HPM-70 combo I used before. The volume goes up really loud, the bass response is great, without sacrificing treble (like "Megabass" does).

I vote for getting the HBH-DS970's.

[ This Message was edited by: kalleboo on 2006-09-14 23:56 ]

Posted by sapporobaby
Now that we have gotten no where with this thread, what is the outcome? What next? Some like the sound, some don't. Hearing is subjective anyway, so WHO CARES??????????

Obviously SE did not think it an issue and made no noticeable upgrade in the Wotan released version of the software. Maybe some of you did not get the memo. It is only a phone. A phone that has some media playback capabilities but at the end of the day it is a phone.

Would it be a fair comparison to equate the k800i with my B&W 801 Matrix? They both reproduce sound right? Should I rate the camera of the k800i against my Nikon D200? They both take pictures.

At the end of the day it is a phone, a phone, a phone, a phone that does other stuff as well.

Posted by Sirhackalot
Totally agree with you mate, I suggest you join the club and don't bother responding to these's unthankfull winers. I wish the moderators or admins could do somthing about these new peeps. Btw what happen tot he original Esato users, I mean thoes were the days where every one was happy things were smooth and if there was a problem people would wait till it was fixed.


Posted by sapporobaby
Quote:

On 2006-09-15 01:13:36, Sirhackalot wrote:
Totally agree with you mate, I suggest you join the club and don't bother responding to these's unthankfull winers. I wish the moderators or admins could do somthing about these new peeps. Btw what happen tot he original Esato users, I mean thoes were the days where every one was happy things were smooth and if there was a problem people would wait till it was fixed.





DING, DING, DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best post of this forum.

Have you noticed the old guard has gone elsewhere and for the reasons you mentioned above. It is like these people just sit there and do nothing but test their phones for flaws, and then open up a gripe session. It is pathetic.

Posted by Sirhackalot
Im going to mention this to mass n laffen see if they can take a look at this because its's getting rediculouse around here. I mean this is the first time i have ever see a general discussion full of SE sucks, K800 sound quality worst...... I bet half of these kids don't know what quality is!!! when the real problem is a volume adjustment!

Posted by sapporobaby
Do that dude. Mass got a bit annoyed with me because I went off on a few of the whiners a bit back so I try to behave.

Posted by sapibobo
Unlike the SE bashing threads (suck big times, etc) i am not the similar person who like to bashing SE. My first phone is Ericsson t28 and i am become the die hard fans ever since.

I owned most of descendant of t28 : t29, t39, t68i, t610, S700, K750 and finally K800i. I skip UIQ entirely because i own a non GSM PDA. SE introduces me with mobile MP3 music with separate HPM-10 accessories with t39. I never owned a Nokia. My other phone beside SE is.... well, i dont have any. I tried some S60s but i do not like the quality and the menu structure.

This thread is not intended to bashing SE or to discredit anyone. I just a regular user seeking for answer in this forum, hoping to find people with similar experience. In hope that someone can make suggestion or direct me with some steps things i should do.

Creating this thread is not enjoying either even to myself because for all this time i relying on SE to provide me my mobile comm and entertainment.

K800i is dificult to let go, SE design never failed me. And i get used to the quality of the camera. It is just that the music quality (at current firmware) is worse than K750.

Just an update : I tried different K750s with the same HPM-70 and for the certain the music is better than the combo of my K800 with HPM-70. And i tried another K800 and the quality is the same worse as mine. I really cannot figure it out how SE can do this.

Now i bring extra memory stick duo 128mb (legacy from my S700) alongside with my 1 GB M2, contain my favorite songs just in case i spot someone i know to tried their SE phones. And so far i conclude that my K800i (with few others) sound worse than K750.
Starting to repeat myself, sorry.




Posted by Cupidon
I have the same problem.I compared k800 with k750 and w800 in hpm 70...and I was very disappointed when I realise that k800 is by far the worst.I`ve compared these phones using the same melody and hpm70.K800 is very slow in earphones and this is most annoying thing for me.I hope they`ll fix this problem with the new firmware although the wotan firmware update didn`t fixed this problem.I think all of you with the same problem should write a complain at www.sonyericsson.com

Posted by jasond
sapporobaby, I think we need to add a category for you to the 2007 Esato awards for most infuriated person.

Quite planly these people are discussing and comparing a perceived fault with a product, maybe to decifer whether they have a defective unit, perhaps to share an annoyance.

I too am of the opinion that the sound quality is slightly lacking ony my K800 (I listen to it through my car stereo, using the car cradle), but even if this wasn't the case, it is my firm opinion that there really is nothing wrong with the manner of this discussion.

Of interest to you guys (as posted in the K800 Firmware thread - apologies for the double post, I'm sure you'll agree on it's relevance), this was my response from SE when I contacted them about my phone's media player audio quality:

Quote:

Dear Jason,

Thank you for contacting the Sony Ericsson Call Center.

Our Head Office is currently looking into this problem. However, we cannot advise at this point when the fix will be implemented. Please try using the Sony Ericsson Update Service in about 3-4 weeks as a fix may available at that time.

Best Regards,

Sony Ericsson Call Center



Cheers.

Posted by sapporobaby
Quote:

On 2006-09-17 11:10:39, jasond wrote:
sapporobaby, I think we need to add a category for you to the 2007 Esato awards for most infuriated person.

Quite planly these people are discussing and comparing a perceived fault with a product, maybe to decifer whether they have a defective unit, perhaps to share an annoyance.



I thought about your post a bit before I responded so as to try to look objectively at your statements. I have come to the conclusion and this is my personal opinion, that you are relatively new to this forum. Not quite a year. However I have been here for a minute or two and can tell you that the basis of posts that riddle this forum have driven away the good people that were here. They have moved on to other forums where they do not have to endure posts from users that would rather shot gun a forum instead of doing a bit of leg work to solve their problems. Most here are takers. They have nothing to give in terms of info or relevance. We can take this very thread for example. At the end of the day it is subjective. Hearing is subjective. I have a $10K home stereo system, an iPod, a k800i, and a m600i. They all sound different as they all do different things and have their core functionality. Do I expect my hone stereo to be comparable to my iPod? No, not really. The iPod is handicapped by many things but it does its main function, to play media, rather well and I can accept this. The same can be said of my phones. Their main or core function it to make and receive phone calls. All the extras are just marketing additions they is designed to make SE products more desirable than Nokia or other products. This forum has descended into a level of whiners and cry babies that have no other life outside of sitting in their parents basements and trying to see what bugs they can find in their phones. As for me, I have a life. If I find a bug that is not so crippling that it does not impede the core functionality of the phone, I march on. I write SE, tell them of the issue and drive on. This is not the case here. There are forum trolls that seem to get off on nothing more than finding something to gripe about in regards to their phone. So, while you may have a point, I tend to disagree.

Posted by tupac1
^ what are you on about sunshine? my w800i performs like a phone aswelll as a killer music player and a decent camera. its 3 in one. both the music function and phone calling is equal. and yeah the music quality whoops ipods ass. i have a nano ipod and the equalizer is so are the earphones from the ipod . btw labelling it music phone, it means music as its core aswell.
_________________
800i mods: anti-hiss & increase earpiece + joystick cap(no hole). so slick



[ This Message was edited by: tupac1 on 2006-09-17 18:24 ]

[ This Message was edited by: tupac1 on 2006-09-17 18:26 ]

Posted by sapporobaby
Quote:

On 2006-09-17 19:21:18, tupac1 wrote:
^ what are you on about sunshine? my w800i performs like a phone aswelll as a killer music player and a decent camera. its 3 in one. both the music function and phone calling is equal. and yeah the music quality whoops ipods ass. i have a nano ipod and the equalizer is so are the earphones from the ipod . btw labelling it music phone, it means music as its core aswell.
_________________
800i mods: anti-hiss & increase earpiece + joystick cap(no hole). so slick


[ This Message was edited by: tupac1 on 2006-09-17 18:24 ]

[ This Message was edited by: tupac1 on 2006-09-17 18:26 ]




1. Get degree in Marketing.
2. Get to know the marketing managers at SE and see what they say about their own products.
3. Then come back and talk to me.

The only thing that we come close to agreeing on is that the stock headphones from the iPod are not great, hell not even good. Spend about $150 or more on some good ones: Ultimate Ears, Etymotics and you will notice the difference.

_________________
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*

-/..../../...//.../../-/.//../...//--./---/../-./--.//-/---//-/...././/-../-

[ This Message was edited by: sapporobaby on 2006-09-17 18:36 ]

Posted by MrPlant
Sound quality is subjective...

ohh no its not...

I put the same song on my old W800 and my mates k750. I then played the same track on my new k800.. (This was on the speakerphone). No EQ.

The K800 speakerphone is very tinny with no bass to it whatsoever..

Did the car test - car hookup lead - same deal..
K800 sound is undefined, undynamic, lacks bass and heavily compressed.

It has been crippled by firmware in my opinion.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with "megabass" or lack of it..

Just pure subjective listening....


I am selling this phone, unless this gets fixed soon....

Somehow I am beginning to doubt sony even care about fixing this..

Posted by Trentors
I can't believe my eyes. Now we are a bunch of ungrateful whiners because we want SE to improve their technology instead of crippling it???

It that is in the spirit of the "old" Esato then this forum used to populated by a bunch of SE fanatics that worshipped and praised a company that apparently could do nothing wrong!!! Just like the Nintendo and Apple fanboys!

SE is a company. K800 is their product. We are the consumer. Stop making excuses for SE - they did something wrong - they even admitted it (otherwise they wouldn't try to fix it).

SE economy is based on users buying a new product every year. If a new product does not differentiate from their previous models they are not going to sell. In spite of all the talk of SE being excused because of the whole "it's just marketing" they still have a responsibility. When they claim that their phones are in the league of other Walkman products they better be because otherwise another company WILL make a phone that is. And consumers will choose that product.

If rumors start to circulate that SE makes phone with crap sound quality, people who has seen the obvious logic of combining gadgets, will choose another phone brand (LG Chocolat i.e.).

If SE is ONLY a phone maker then there is no use for new phones because the phone abilities are not improved. Then there would be no SE!

And if SE want's to eat into the MP3 and Digital Camera market they better get their act together - or end up like Siemens.....wait Ericsson already did that – I don’t think their name can hold a third name.

So all you "oldies" in here: The top of the line is NOT the T39. We have new features and expectations to a phone and there is NO excuse for crippling a feature every other manufacture has and that SE even used to differentiate their product from the competition. Stop pining for the old simpler times and cut the hypocrisy!


Besides it is not the first time SE cripples and existing feature. The MIDI sound on the T610 sounds far superior than the MIDI system used today. Sure the new MIDI modules have more channels (because lame consumers think it equals better sound) but the fact is that it sounds terrible. It was even discussed in here and still SE got away with because we now mostly use real compressed audio instead of MIDI


Posted by mcrosser
SE, like any other company, should have their flagship phone at a serious high level, the most it can be. The crippled sh*t, tha's for people that can't afford the real ultimate phone, and can only get some other one minimized on some aspects. Men, be real, there are still people out there using T300 as their main phone, and others having 2x P990 or whole collection of other phones. SE has a phone for everyone, just not the phone for those who want ultimate. Ok so no phone is perfect. What is ? We just want SE to give us the BEST THEY HAVE TO GIVE, we don't (some of us) want them to give us ultra next generation phone, no! Can't people see this? The phones with inferior specs are for masses with reasonable incomes to above average, and the top spec are for phone geeks. Cheers

Posted by schumy_f1
K800`s sound SUCKS.My ex k750(K SERIES) was much better.SE cripped k800` sound(no bass,lower volume,no megabass,etc).K750 made me to change from NOKIA to SE and I must say I was very hapy with it(good camera and superb mp3 playback-with hpm70).Now SE want us to buy 2 phones k800-for taking pictures and w850 for listening music.For those saying that "my k800`s sound is the best".......please shut up...I`m veeeeery disappointed with this great move from SE because I use mp3 playback almost every day.SE should let that great output from k750.

Posted by HacQ
thats true... k750i sound playback was and still is much better than k800...ive got O2 upgrade K800 with hope that K800 will have good jump forward with most everything in it but it wasnt, just screen and cam is better, but nothing else(by the way,the battery life time is worst ive ever experienced on SE, even if ive used phone just a little)
K750i/W800i rules!



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