Official K800/790 Video Thread

Posted by dcuk
Hey Mysh

I've been working on it awhile trying to perfect it (ok readers you can stop laughing now! lol

) and thought it might be helpful for M3 in some way,

I understand y1 & y2 should be equal and started out that way but then thought maybe a user might want to crop a DOG from there video and in so doing would have uneven y1 & y2 settings but didn't want them to have to worry about maintaining DAR by guessing x1, x2

Did you manage to get chance to change your PAR to 1.2222 from 1.3333 so M3 will produce correct circles? (looking forward to not having to go through virtualdub first!)

Thank you.

*******************UPDATE************************

PS: after just trying "(y / 3) * 4 = new x" this will work fine if final output is for TV but not for 320x240

as a test using (576 / 3) * 4 = 768 (which is how a CRT displays a 720x576 to correct it's DAR, but doing that with a cropped image and using this calculation it will add distortion as there's no final overscan calculation produced on the output medium in this case the K800i

(I could be completely wrong here too

)
_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-24 01:48 ]

Posted by mysh
Nobody has asked for uneven cropping yet, so i haven't looked at it. It seems an unlikely thing to need.

How come you have been working on crop calculation tho? working on some software?

I haven't gotten around to supporting PAR below 1.33 yet, it'll be easy to add tho. Until i came to reply to your post, i hadn't even looked at the cropping code for about 2 months! It's more than a little untidy, you can even see where i've reduced the target aspect ratio from 4 / 3 to 0.75 in some places but not others, terrible really:

Code:


Sub ComputeCrops()

            'compute 16:10 > 4:3 aspect horizontal cropping value

            iCropH = Convert.ToInt32((iSourceWidth - ((iSourceHeight / 3) * 4)) / 2)

            'vob version

            If strFileExtension = ".vob" Or bIsDVD = True Then

                iCropH = Convert.ToInt32((iSourceWidth - ...

 (((iSourceWidth / fSourceAspect) / 3) * 4)) / 2)

            End If

            If iCropH Mod 2 = 1 Then

                iCropH = iCropH - 1

            End If

            'assign cropping value so long as it's positive value

            If iCropH < 0 Then iCropH = 0

            'compute letterbox removal

            iCropVl = Convert.ToInt32((iSourceHeight - (iSourceHeight * 0.75)) / 2)

            'vob version

            If strFileExtension = ".vob" Or bIsDVD = True Then

                Dim newsourceheight As Integer = CInt(iSourceWidth / fSourceAspect)

                If Not newsourceheight Mod 2 = 0 Then newsourceheight = newsourceheight - 1

                iCropVl = Convert.ToInt32((newsourceheight - (newsourceheight * 0.75)) / 2)

            End If

            iCropHl = Convert.ToInt32(iCropH + iCropVl)

            If iCropHl Mod 2 = 1 Then

                iCropHl = iCropHl - 1

            End If

            If iCropHl < 0 Then iCropHl = 0

            If iCropVl Mod 2 = 1 Then

                iCropVl = iCropVl - 1

            End If

            If iCropVl < 0 Then iCropVl = 0

        End Sub

lines starting with ' are just comments.

as you can see, aspect ratios wider than 4:3 are considered (eg. 16:10), but i never looked at aspect ratios narrower than 4:3 such as 5:4.

I'll overhaul that code before the next release and make it use the detected par in all cases (5:4, 16:9 etc).

[ This Message was edited by: mysh on 2006-10-24 01:51 ]

Posted by dcuk
I just updated my last post above

you are using 0.75

I was using 0.77 (Don't ask

) but then found 0.67 to be more accurate if you are referring to converting anamorphic, even had a string of y*1.2222*0.67=x until I found using 2.04 produced to same results (well it does for me)

Just a quick PS: please can you shorten the length of your _____ line in above post so forum goes back to normal width, thank you

PPS: you never know someone else might want uneven borders I've needed them in the past!

_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-24 01:54 ]

Posted by mysh
edited it to shrink it a little, if you like i'll just remove the code. I thought if you were writing some code yourself it might prove handy.

PAL TV is 1.25 (5:4) ratio. I get what you mean about it being wrong on the phone screen, which is 1.33 (4:3). Basically the TV does it's own 4:3 DAR on the 5:4 PAR tv signal. See below on 'narrowscreen' video about this.

essentially i am using a value of 0.75 because that is the target screen ratio of height to width, 3/4 = 0.75.

so for ANY widescreen video with a ratio of anything above 1.33 (4:3), you take the height, and multiply it by 0.75 to find out what the new width should be to make it proportionally perfect on a 4:3 screen. Does that makes sense?

In the case of PAL signal tv captures, it's a 'narrowscreen' video, so you need to do the opposite... 720/576 = 5/4 = 1.25 aspect. You crop a tiny amount off the top and bottom (instead of the sides) to fit to 4:3 fullscreen, yet keep perfect proportions (perfect circles).

The actual math would be:

crop from top and bottom = (Res Y - (ResX * 0.75)) / 2

i understand you're using 0.77 then 0.67 to account for overscan and the TVs own DAR, but this isn't neccessary, as a TV overscans in both X and Y dimensions. 0.75 is the phone aspect, which is what we're targetting, it's perfect. The cropping is like only doing the vertical part of the TV overscan, it's not to replicate the TV overscan tho, it's to fix the PAR.

Really i should just change the * 0.75 to / 1.33, it's the same thing, and would make this a lot less confusing to read!

trying to combine both the target aspect and source aspect into one value like 2.02 works fine if your source aspect is always the same. But only then. It's better to compute source aspect on-the-fly, with a simple rule to distinguish between the two cases of < 1.33 or > 1.33 aspect.

That way you can deal with video of any proportions accurately and easily.

In that earlier post i mentioned i'll add support for aspect's below 1.33, and what i meant was adding that vertical crop for 'narrowscreen' 5:4 captured video, and any other video under 1.33 aspect.

I should admit, i don't specifically know how exactly a TV converts the 5:4 signal to a DAR of 4:3, it may use non-square pixels in the CRT. I am aware that overscan occurs horizontally as well as vertically though.

[ This Message was edited by: mysh on 2006-10-24 02:33 ]

Posted by dcuk
720x576 is 1.2222 because 8 pixels either side normally arn't used in almost all DTV broadcasts (I read a complex article on it months ago explaining why they do this, I'll try and find it for you later on today)

Have a peep at the frame grabs I posted before to help explain
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=125517&start=180

I used to use 1.25 on the k750i as the media player adds tiny black borders top and bottom to 128x96 video as it can't quite stretch it to fill the frame so 1.25 produced true circles on screen

I've tested lots and lots of videos (honestly!) and really 1.2222 seems to look perfect on the k800i screen (I've even paused videos and mesured circles both ways to see how round they are (sad I know

lol)),

infact I'll encode some small files size videos in the different DAR's so you can try them on your phone

_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-24 03:07 ]

Posted by mysh
hehe ok this getting silly now.

on the pics you posted on page 13, the 1.22 image is the same as doing the 'narrowscreen' vertical cropping i just mentioned.

Compared to the 1.33 image, you just cropped a few pixels from the top and bottom. You shorten the image height while maintaining the image width, essentially 'squashing' down the image slightly when it comes time to resize to 320x240.

This is exactly what will be in the next version of m3! I can also add a function to remove those 8 dead pixels on the sides prior to computing the vertical crop, if that'd be handy?

Posted by dcuk
I agree it is and we shouldn't hog the thread

I honestly didn't squash the shots vertically they are true screen grabs from virtualdub output window with the different PAR settings, I'll send you them later today. each picture is 320x240

PS: goto page 13 and right click the images and 'save as' to your desktop then check the properties for each image

***UPDATE:***
Each image's width is altered only to test different PAR settings before being converted to 320x240

I prefer to alter width rather than height as the vertical crop is usally goverened by the need to remove just the black bars and no more.

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this subject and share your views.
_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-24 04:10 ]

Posted by mysh
Email me if you want to discuss this more tho.

Basically the PAR setting in vdub will change the vertical proportions. So none of the image is cropped, just squashed a bit. I think those two screens you posted were from different frames, so it looked like the screen edge had been trimmed to me at first.

M3 will crop maybe 40 pixels from the 720 width to achieve the same effect. That should only be the overscan area, so no vital information will be lost. I could look at doing vertical resizing instead if you'd really prefer tho.

[ This Message was edited by: mysh on 2006-10-24 03:48 ]

Posted by dcuk
Hi everyone,

Mysh has been busy again and here is the latest version of M3
http://www.vapulus.com/w900i/M3-0.8.8.4-Installer.exe

Dont forget you need .net framework version 2 for M3 to work!
http://www.microsoft.com/down[....]DD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en

_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-24 19:05 ]

Posted by dcuk
Well I feel really silly now as I've found out my Anamorphic cropping ratio algorithm is very wrong

Oh well!

So I've reverted back to my old method which works every time but is a bit long winded

manually crop away (y1) & (y2) then

(then what's left is) (y3)*0.9152-720/2 = cropping sizes for (x1 & x2)

this is for cropping Anamorphic videos only!
_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-27 01:26 ]

Posted by mysh
hey dcuk, how is the DAR correction on 5:4 video working for you?

also, if you look back a page, you can see a simple way to compute letterbox removal with widescreen cropping in that code i posted. Although it assumes letterbox size of 16:10 image in a 4:3 frame currently.

Possibly the next version of m3 will have manual letterbox removal values. i need to find a good way to visualise the letterbox removal amount. Possibly using a framegrab and drawing lines over it that the user can then move. Much like your image there, but with dynamic lines that respond to new 'crop' values as you enter them. i'll keep you posted.

Posted by dcuk
Hi Mysh,

The output aspect in 0.884 for an 4:3 imported video is spot on now, thank you!

My algorithm is for true 720x576 Anamorphic videos and works every time (unlike my other method hehe

) rather than 4x3 letterbox videos (I wish they wouldn't use that method of encoding) and will allow someone to input any settings in Y1 & Y2 (if they like

) and will give a correct calculation for X1 & X2

__________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-25 01:36 ]

Posted by mysh
Glad that 5:4 is now perfect

i think for anamorphic in 720x576 with letterboxing, at least in m3, i'll deal with it as following:

-first of all convert the 5:4 to 4:3 AR as now works in 0.88.4

- use a common formula for all 4:3 video (includes 5:4 made into 4:3 as above)

math is too simple really...

whatever you crop off the top and bottom to remove the letterbox, multiply by 1.33

(3 off the top and bottom equals 4 off each side, keeps proportions perfectly)

so literally it's just: cropX = CropY * 1.33

obviously CropX/Y are divided by 2 when it comes to actual cropping.

It will achieve the same as your formula, but by dealing with the PAR / DAR difference prior to letterbox cropping (ie. cropping or resizing all input to 4:3 first), you make the letterbox cropping itself a much simpler and reusable process for any aspect video.

Sound ok to you? You'll have to trust me that it will work until i code it into the next version.

[ This Message was edited by: mysh on 2006-10-25 01:08 ]

Posted by dcuk
I think that is a great idea to only have one calculation and like your method

the only downside is loss of picture quailty with the Anamorphic video being scaled twice, once on import then again on export also the extra time needed when importing Anamorphic videos

Hey sneaky I just rechecked (ok I measured but you did ask me to check!

) my Pussycat dolls- Buttons M3 output video (encoded directly from the original mpg) with 0.884 and circles are a tiny bit taller than wider but most people won't notice!

I really look forward to the manual/semi-automatic cropping in a future version of M3!
Could you utilise the 'preview video' window and add manual/semi-automatic cropping to that, would that be easier so a user can select which ever frame they wanted!?

(PS: the manual slider and small output preview window isn't working at the mo with mpg's)

_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-25 01:40 ]

Posted by hampad
hey hey got a neew strange problem, the sound is to slow not out of sync but in slowmotion. otherwise it works greate

Posted by dcuk
Mysh I had another thought last night,

As well as reading the aspect from the mpg or file type header you'll need a manual aspect selection button in case someone has ananmorphic avi's which of course don't have header aspect data!

_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-26 02:35 ]

Posted by bavlondon2
Best thing ive seen for ripping is a combination of xilisoft dvd ripper and mpegable to encode.

The dvd ripper rips to either mpg/wmv or many other choices and I use mpegable to encode to mp4.

And the dvd rips come out really clear. In terms of how much space they take up an hour episode takes around 100mb but its worth it.

Ill post up a sample at some point.

Posted by dcuk
Hey Myah,

I've just reviewed your post and have carried out some tests and unless I've done something wrong I don't think that formula will provide the best results (I tired this approach first off only to discover it doesn't work so well for 720x576 4:3 videos

*****************************************
Quote:
"math is too simple really...

whatever you crop off the top and bottom to remove the letterbox, multiply by 1.33 (3 off the top and bottom equals 4 off each side, keeps proportions perfectly)

so literally it's just: cropX = CropY * 1.33"

*****************************************
Now this works ok on smaller values but the larger the Y crop the less accurate it becomes.

Trying my formula (Not the one I posted already, I mean one I use at the moment for 4:3 videos), I know it might not be the best but the videos won't need to be scaled up when opened so can be converted quicker and keep as much detail as possible

EG:
if Y=20
(your method Y*1.33=X) X=26.6
(my method with a 1.2222 value) X would=32.45 (true circles)
(my method with a 1.25 value) X=25 (which is very close to your original target)

________________________________
now if we take a larger Y value say 120

(your method Y*1.33=X) X=159.6
(my method with a 1.2222 value) X=154.6 (true circles)
(my method with a 1.25 value) X=150

If you choose to use this new method (Y*1.33=X) the larger Y becomes the bigger the discrepancy ending up nearly 20 pixels out compared to your current 1.25 M3 ratio

Posted by shuandrew
Hi everyone, and thanks to mysh for M3 - it's awesome! I wonder whether you can answer one question for me.

I've downloaded the newest version and converted a full-length DVD movie into MP4 for my K800, using the default settings in M3. It works great for about ten minutes, but then the sound starts getting terribly out of synch with the onscreen images. The only way I can see to fix it is to stop the movie all together, then start it up again.

Can anyone help? =)

Thanks a lot,

Andrew.

Posted by mysh
what movie profile (high/very high/smaller) or movie audio codec setting are you using?

I personally found HE-AAC or HE-AACv2 loses audio sync on some movies, but people insisted i include those codecs for movies, as they said they had no sync issues with it.

If stopping then fast-forwarding back to where you stopped it gets the sync back, it prolly is HE-AAC audio issues.

dcuk - thanks for the email, i'm looking into it.

Posted by shuandrew
Hi mysh, thanks for the reply. =)

I'm using High Quality and LC-AAC (all defaults) on the audio options, which doesn't stop the movie from going out of synch. =s

Do you have any more advice as to which settings I should use? Would dropping the quality to 'Smaller files' help?

Thanks again,

Andrew.

Posted by dcuk
Hi shauandrew,

Try lowering your 'video bitrate' to 300 too prevent slight pauses in the video (can even be so slight they are almost un-noticeable) on scene changes, doing this will allow the K800i video decoder some breathing space,

also to help try an 'audio bitrate of 64kbps instead of 96kbps (bet you won't hear the difference as Nero codecs are very effcient)

Posted by bavlondon2
I always use 96 for audio and 335 for video.

Posted by blunden
Mysh: Any progress on my 5:2 aspect ratio sample clip that couldn't be converted with the maintain original aspect ratio?

Posted by tw1st
mysh, M3 hangs on the 'Nero EULA Screen' for me.
It just pops up as box with nothing in it.
Help?

Posted by blunden

Quote:

On 2006-11-18 22:07:22, tw1st wrote:
mysh, M3 hangs on the 'Nero EULA Screen' for me.
It just pops up as box with nothing in it.
Help?

Just extract neroAacEnc.exe from the codec and put it in your M3\\bin folder.

Or wait, do you mean it happens during the setup?

Posted by glorfingal
it happens to mine as well - just hangs during the nero codec download
with a plain grey screen.
It occurs during the setup phase of M3.

What codec can the nero bit be extracted from ???

Posted by blunden

Quote:

On 2006-11-20 11:34:18, glorfingal wrote:
...What codec can the nero bit be extracted from ???

It can be found here:

http://www.nero.com/nerodigital/eng/Nero_Digital_Audio.html

I always use that method it does not require installing the codec, just let M3 use it.

[ This Message was edited by: blunden on 2006-11-26 20:40 ]

Posted by glorfingal
@blunden - your are a star

extracted the bits from the codec, dropped them into the M3 bin folder
and all is beautiful.

Thanks for the pointers

Posted by mysh
Just a head's up that there is a new version of m3 out:

http://www.vapulus.com/w900i/M3-0.8.9.1-Installer.exe

if you're using version 0.88.4 you need to download this manually, cus i broke the auto downloader in 0.884! oops!

All fixed now tho.

Lot's of goodies in the new version, you can create your own phone profiles for unsupported phones!

Posted by nidhelp
hey i juz bought the k800i..
i wna put videos in..
i would like to find out a few things..

-wher can i get the encoder that is needed?
-do i have to pay for it?

help needed..
thank you..

Posted by nidhelp
hey myth..

the M3 is doin great..
Thx alot man..
ur the man..
im starting to love my k800i even more now..

thx man:D

Posted by blunden
Mysh: My bug with the aspect ratio is still not fixed. Just wanted to let you know if you were under the impression that it was.

Except for that, it's an awsome app. Just recommended it to a friend to today.

Posted by bronxdude
hi guys! question. while playing videos, can we do a FAST-FORWARD?

Posted by bavlondon2
yes you can but you have to use the joystick

Posted by bronxdude

Quote:

On 2006-12-08 21:49:14, bavlondon2 wrote:
yes you can but you have to use the joystick

can u tell me how? i tried doing that, and it wont work. i am viewing my vids in landscape mode

Posted by blunden

Quote:

On 2006-12-10 01:51:22, bronxdude wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-12-08 21:49:14, bavlondon2 wrote:
yes you can but you have to use the joystick

can u tell me how? i tried doing that, and it wont work. i am viewing my vids in landscape mode

You have to watch them in the special movie player. You can't watch them from the player that starts when opening them in the file manager.

Posted by bavlondon2
Hi everyone im having some trouble encoding this clip. Its a quality ad by the way you aev to watch it to belive me. Anyway the clip has sound but for some reason when i go to encode it in mpegable it doesnt give me the option of any audio. Any ideas why that would happen?

Heres the clip. I was wondering if perhaps any of you would have some better luck with it. Id use M3 but for soem reason it doesnt work on my pc.

Could one of you lot perhaps give it a go. I promise fellas is a funny clip.,

http://rapidshare.com/files/6901179/scruffs.mov.html

Posted by yorkiex
here you go bavlondon2 see if this works mate

http://rapidshare.com/files/6975230/scruffs.mp4.html - 320*220

And here is 1 for you halo fans

http://rapidshare.com/files/6974790/halo_3_tv_ad.mp4.html - 320*220

enjoy

[ This Message was edited by: yorkiex on 2006-12-11 03:15 ]

Posted by bavlondon2
Thanks yorkie

Posted by Pepi
where can i get m3?

Posted by jj03
Go bck a few pages...link to the newest m3 is there.

Posted by blunden
The latest version at the moment is the one found in that link.

http://www.vapulus.com/w900i/M3-0.8.9.6-Installer.exe

Posted by Pepi
thanx
the links posted before did not work

Posted by baste07
i tried running the app but it says i have to install a .Net framework.. where can i get this?

Posted by harryville
@ blunden

Cany d/l the codec as Nero not available!! Anwhere else I can get it?

Posted by blunden

Quote:

On 2006-12-17 19:29:50, harryville wrote:
@ blunden

Cany d/l the codec as Nero not available!! Anwhere else I can get it?

Huh? It works fine for me.

Posted by harryville
managed to get the file with a bit of help from mysh.

Seemed my ISP was blocking it!!!

but everything is grand now

Posted by nicolasf
Mysh: nice software you got there.

I have some suggestions:
- wouldn't it be possible to create an advanced mode so that users can input their configuration without having to create custom profiles?
- It would be nice to have an option to use "Source FPS" as Target FPS.

What do you think?

Thanks.

PS: Just got my K800i today... Very nice phone!! My first SE!

Posted by shery
just a little comment :
a progress bar plz.