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P990 or N93?


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Posted by Waka
I'm interested in both of these phones - mainly because they are both 'feature rich' and they (hopefully) will be released next month or July!

I'm looking for a page like this:
http://www.esato.com/phones/index.php/phone=185,cp=184
to compare the P990 and the N93. Maybe with a bit more detail - like what kind of wireless connectivity each has (e.g. b and/or g).

On a releated note, can a phone with just wireless b connect to a wireless g network; or can a wireless g network refuse connections from b clients?

Anyone else buying one of these phones - if so, why not the other one?

Thanks for looking,
W.


Posted by DickySnapples
most people will say the P990 as this is a SE forum.


but ill be getting both!

Posted by bbasra
You just hit the nail on the head for me, I am also not sure which one to go with.

I don't mind having a PDA Phone as i had the p800 and p900 before but since then i have the Nokia 8800 since i always loved the Metal Feel of the 8000 Series Phones and it does more or less everything for me, except for one thing, the TomTom.

I need a Tomtom device, ie All in one or tomtom compatable phone, and i opted for the phone, as it is less things to carry.

I belive both the p990i and n93 will support the tomtom software and i dont really miss the p800 or p900 apart from it's games and how much can you really surf on a phone even if it has wifi.

so i am also still rather confused. maybe the size will decide for me once both models are out.

Posted by jbm888
For me its the nokia N80, 3mp cam, plus wifi, quadband, plus 3g, size is good compared to p990, slider form factor is a killer for me!

Posted by bugsiiy
ok this one is a hard one,if you don't need touchscreen you should definitely go for Nokia N93,if you want touchscreen then you should choose P990.Let's just say that P990 has it all but not the best,N93 lacks the touchscreen but the other components are way better than nokia's

[ This Message was edited by: bugsiiy on 2006-05-11 16:20 ]

Posted by tindo196
i would probably say N93 becoz atthe rateatwhich SE is going the N93 might just be released earlier than the p990

Posted by jack77777
p990i cos the n73 has bad battery life and is just a poor phone alltogether.

Posted by daloon
Good question.

I was originally going for N93 since I'm tired of waiting for P990 and actually I find it more time consuming and impractical to use a touchscreen.. And besides, the first impression of N93 is like WOW! .. BUT! when I looked at the size and weight of N93, I quickly changed my mind.. It's going to be really rellay huge. Especially when unfolded. IMO a mobile phone can't be any bigger than the P series.. They are at the outer limit..
So, the N80 for me then.. the best allround phone I've found so far..

Oh, the best page for comparing mobiles is this one btw:
www.gsmarena.com

Posted by kinnth
tbh I have just compared all of nokia's new N series against the p990i, there are not many differences but some are major.

1. the biggest difference by far is...... BATTERY LIFE, I couldnt believe it, if you look at nokia's n80 they expect it to have a talk time of 3hours! The p990 is expected to be 9hours. If you actually expect to use these phones for more than just taking pics i suggest you buy lots of chargers.

2. The other difference is weight, the n93 is almost 40g heavier than the p990, that significantly more power available if a would be mugger attempts to steal it, however the only other benefit is to your leg muscles!

3. The other difference which works in favour of nokia is the wireless g that they have and SE dont. This is the only real feature that is likly to have any real effect.

my minds made up, sit it out, bitch about SE untill p990 comes out, then sit with smug grin.

Posted by daloon
Yeah I've noticed that too. The battery life is shit on Nokia in general but one can always buy a spare one. I don't think that it should be a concern for a regular user charging the phone every night anyways. A business man or salesman may think otherwise though.. It's all down to personal taste.

Posted by Waka
@daloon
thanks for the link, very useful.

It says the N93 is 25 grams heavier - not 40 grams.

The overall size of the two phones is very similar - but as the Nokia has a 3.2MP camera with a 3x optical zoom, i can forgive it being a few mm bigger!

Although both phones have the same resolution screens, I think the slightly larger size of the N93 screen is another plus point.

Battery life is going to be a problem, I'm impressed with how long my P900 lasts between charges - but any 3G phone with bluetooth and wirless lan is going to eat batteries - talk time is one thing, but these phones are going to do a lot more than talk! I wouldn't be suprised if both phones needed charging every day.

I guess I really need to get both phones in my hand before I make up my mind.

Decisions, decisions...

W.

Posted by adnhk1
Waka,

N93 screen size is 2.4 inch while P990i is 2.8 inch. How can N93's screen be bigger than P990i? Apart from the 3.2MP cam and 802.11g, the other main advantage of N93 over P990i is its VGA MPEG4 recording feature, which should be the world's first. However, I just realised yesterday that SE's official developer's document released in Feb 06 stated that P990i has the capability to record videos at up to VGA resolution too (just hope it is not a typo error).

http://press.nokia.com/PR/200604/1046557_5.html

http://www.allaboutsymbian.co[....]/Sony_Ericsson_unveil_P990.php

http://developer.sonyericsson.com/getDocument.do?docId=75265

I am not sure about others, but to me, touch sensitive screen and HWR is a must to acheive any decent PDA usages.

Posted by Residentevil
Personally I could not live without a touch screen. So it will be the P990 for me when it ever comes out.

Posted by amawanqa
Yeah, same here; I've been spoilt with my long-suffering P900's touch screen over the past 2 years. I had a Motorola A008 Accompli before that, amongst other phones, and enjoy the stylus input on phones.
I'll continue to wait patiently (although it's getting more and more difficult!) for the P990...

Posted by rambo47
I've been using a Treo 650 and Audiovox SMT5600 lately so you can imagine how desperately I'm awaiting the P990. I'll probably take a peek at the Nokia E61 as they added EDGE support, something that was originally to be left out. But the one phone I'm anxiously awaiting is the SE P990. Yeah, I'll be all over it!

Posted by Symbiatico
It's all about the touch screen AND the jog-dial! Once you use them, nothing less will do. It's about input and interface, not specs numbers on paper.


Posted by kinnth
could someone explain to me exactly what EDGE does and what it is used for.

ta

Posted by dotsis
kinthe..edge is the intermediate between 2g and 3g.it's not really hit off much though.better just using 3g as it's widely avalable now.

Posted by jack77777
get p990 so much more fun .

Posted by Jim-bob
What about Nokia N800 vs P990? Seems to me that the N80 ticks all the right boxes, apart from not having a touch sensitive screen and as much battery life. Am I wrong? I kinda wish I am as I'd like to justify waiting til July

Posted by adnhk1
I believe you are refering to N80 vs P990i? Well, for one, check out the official specs between Nokia and SE:

http://www.nseries.com/nserie[....]_en_R1.html?lang=en&country=R1

http://developer.sonyericsson[....]s/phonegallery/p990/p_p990.jsp

Take note of one very important aspect of NK series of phones, including N80 which NK always fails to inform customer... FREE RAM at boot time! SE has always openly show us how much MEMORY plus RAM its flagship P series of phones have, but Nokia, they never do so until customers purchases their phones, went home only to realise it does not have enough RAM to perform as many tasks simultaneously as one had wished. The N80, from mobile reivew's forum was found to be having only 10MB at boot time. People doing normal zooming of images alone can run of of active memory very very quickly, and imagine if you install more than a few quality apps and wishes to run all simultaneously to make your life more productive, but are unable to do so due to "out or memory" messages popping up... Does one realises that N80 has an equal amount (or even lesser) active RAM than a 2.5 year old P900? :

http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=44516&page=2

http://forums.mobileburn.com/showthread.php?t=15519

Battery life may be another issue one need to consider when using N80. N80 is selling at about US$600+ today in my country, and this is not cheap... one would expect a smartphone based on Symnbian OS 9.1 to be able to multitask and execute multiple applications, switching between tasks, etc etc to be a painless process. With only 10MB free active RAM at boot time, good luck to those how are serious about using their phone to its full potential...

My main reason for upgrading from P900 to P910i is also due to not enough active RAM. SE knew about this complaint from many business users and within 9 months, they released the P910i that solves this issue. With the P910i, I can have more than 15 apps running simulteneously and with P990i, one will have up to 48MB free active RAM at boot time Hope this helps.



Posted by Waka
That's interesting about available memory. According to here:
http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=1551&idPhone1=1318
the Nokia has 50MB c/w the SE's 80MB - however the Nokia comes with a 128MB memory card c/w the P990's 64MB. I guess these phones don't have the equivalent of virtual memory?! ;-p

Unless the N93 has an equivalent to the Sonys excelent jog wheel and ezitap software, I'll be staying with the Pxxx series.

W.

Posted by Jim-bob
I think I'll be waiting too. Mainly because my contract isn't up for renewal for some time, and therefore the delayed arrival fo the P990i doesn't inconvenience me. More importantly, as a few people have said, let's hope SE get it right first time and the wait has been put to good use.

Posted by adnhk1
Quote:

On 2006-05-16 21:08:55, Waka wrote:
That's interesting about available memory. According to here:
http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=1551&idPhone1=1318
the Nokia has 50MB c/w the SE's 80MB - however the Nokia comes with a 128MB memory card c/w the P990's 64MB. I guess these phones don't have the equivalent of virtual memory?! ;-p

Unless the N93 has an equivalent to the Sonys excelent jog wheel and ezitap software, I'll be staying with the Pxxx series.

W.



Hi,

it is common that people are misleaded by manufacturers claims when comes to specs, especially those who do not know in depth about technology. Perhaps I should phrase it this way:

1. Think of N80's 50MB and SE's 80MB as your PC's Hard Disk Drive, those that commonly shows 40GB/60GB/80GB, etc etc, where you would install your Windows XP and all other applications, like anti virus, firewall software, anti spyware, Microsoft Office, Internet browsers, and most imortantly to me, GAMES!, etc.

2. Now, think of the ACTIVE RAM as your PC's DRAM, those that you see DDR/DDR2 512MB, 1GB blah blah blah... These are DIE DIE needed for Windows XP to boot properly, as well as ALL those applications that you "double click" on, to startup properly.

Now think of this, can your Windows XP boot without point no. 2 above? No you can't as the moment the DRAM is plugged out of the system, your PC will not even boot up past the initial POST (the initial black screen with some words for showing system checks etc). It does not matter if I have up to 1 terabyte (i.e., 1000 Gigabyte) of hard disk drive in my PC, cos as long as I do not have the DRAM inside my PC, the PC just will not boot properly.

So, now comes the amount of DRAM a PC should have. We all knew, and I assume normal consumers would also know, that THE MORE THE MERRIER, right? So, if I can afford 2GB of DRAM to stick into my PC, I would stick them into my PC. Same goes to mobile devices, the more the available Active RAM, the merrier. Active RAM is required for applications to launch and store it's data into. This is where the difference between PC and mobile devices comes into play. On a PC, if I only have very little RAM, Windows XP knows how to "cheat" applications by making use of the hard disk drive's available space. Do a search for pagefile.sys in your PC. This is the "cheat" RAM which is actually residing on your hard disk drive that applications can make use of if your RAM is not enough. However, for a mobile device, there is no such pagefile.sys residing on your available 50MB of intermal memory, nor is it being "cleverly" made available on your external memory (You mentioned 128MB comes with N80). Hence once the miserable 10MB of the N80 is used up (and yes, ALL APPLICATIONS NEEDS TO USE THIS RAM and they use it A LOT), "Out of memory" messages will pop up, as what was witnessed on the N80 JUST BY ZOOMING INTO A PICTURE...

I hate to say this, but NK is somewhat "deceiving" their customers, and knowing a lot of these customers are not tech savvy enough to understand the difference between "internal memory (PC's hard disk drive)" and "Active RAM (PC's DDR/DDR2 RAM), they are misleading a lot of customers... SE on their website clearly states the P990i (in fact, since P800 they are already stating clearly) comes with 64MB of RAM memory and 128MB Flash memory with up to 80MB for our applications to be installed. For a quick calculation, Symbian OS 9.1 and UIQ 3.0, plus those built-in apps that gets automatically started at boot time should take up about 20MB at boot time. This still leaves us with about 44MB of FREE ACTIVE RAM everytime the phone is booted, which is a whopping 34MB or more than 300% higher than N80...

Hope this helps.

Admins, can this be made sticky so that potential customers can read it prior to spending their hard earned $$$?

Posted by janjanman
hi could anyone confirm about the dynamic memory of the n80? is it really 10mb? and how bwt the P990i?

Posted by drgopoos
hi adnhk1,
you are absolutely right...... this is something very few people know, not only mobile users, even pc users.... i will support this to be made a sticky post...
you need to have plenty of ram to run many programs together and make the system faster and more stable

by the way my vote goes to p990, i cant live without the touch screen and more ram as well...but i doubt about the software availability ...... nokia phones have plenty of software support not seen with SE


Posted by adnhk1
Quote:

On 2006-05-17 16:29:32, janjanman wrote:
hi could anyone confirm about the dynamic memory of the n80? is it really 10mb? and how bwt the P990i?




Please read my posts again...

Posted by Menageryl
' adhnk1 - thanks plenty for bringing the active-RAM issue up - the very vast majority of users seem completely oblivious of this issue!
' Despite all the delays, the P990 is still the Symbian device with the most ever active-RAM... This alone (ignoring all the other highly influential aspects - hardware acceleration for Java, video, and sound - meaning huge boosts to available processing time and power too) is very indicative of the significantly more powerful (and numerous!) applications now possible on / for the device!!!
' Just think back to the most complex and powerful apps available for the P900 - a device with only 16MB active-RAM, of which only 8MB was available after boot... The P910 had a 24MB / 16MB ratio... Now the P990 has 64MB built in... Do the math, work it out, and you'll realise this device has unquestionably the most potential from an applications perspective!!!

' Bring it on! No question - I'm waiting for my P990 - nothing else will do...

' ~Moi

Posted by shaliron
The P990 for sure. The N93 doesn't looklike a reliable phone with all those moving parts. The main reason for why you should get the P990 though is the fact that it has been in development for so long. You can trust that by the time it is released (just like all the others) that the firmware WILL be just about bug free. I have heard many reports of the N93's firmware being very buggy and the P990 will be great! The P990, even with its lower specs, is the best 'multimedia computer' that will run well.

Posted by Super G
Quote:

On 2006-05-15 16:36:06, dotsis wrote:
kinthe..edge is the intermediate between 2g and 3g.it's not really hit off much though.better just using 3g as it's widely avalable now.



This message was posted from a WAP device




@dotsis... I'd recommend you actually check what you're talking about before posting comments like these, because you look ridiculous.

Here is the actual figures (www.gsacom.com):

There is at the moment 151 commercial EDGE networks in 88 countries!
This is to be compared to only 108 WCDMA (3G) networks in only 47 countries...

These figures are increasing as we speak (with a faster pace for EDGE)

Europe is covered by EDGE, with the exception of Spain and Portugal...
Americas are covered by EDGE
Russia is covered by EDGE. So is Belarus, Ukraine, you-name-it
So is China (where 3G WCDMA is *not* going to happen before chicken get teeth...), India, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, you-name-it.
EDGE covers Australia, New Zealand.
EDGE is spreading quickly in Africa.

www.gsacom.com

And it is now clear (if it werent earlier) that 3G will be skipped by many.


It is also interesting to note that 3G(WCDMA) operators are nearly all deploying EDGE as well in their networks.

Posted by shaliron
Actually we in Australia do not have EDGE.

Posted by Menageryl
' Well, a good example of what was said about EDGE is in South Africa...
' EDGE coverage is almost as complete as basic GSM now, whereas 3G coverage exists solely in the 5 major S.A. cities - and in all but the capital and nearby Johannesburg only the city core is really covered!
' So far, of course... This will change - 3G coverage will improve... But that's the case for S.A.

' Then there are speed considerations, of course!

' ~Moi

Posted by Super G
Quote:

On 2006-05-20 12:33:19, shaliron wrote:
Actually we in Australia do not have EDGE.




Telstra is deploying EDGE.

(actually there's 204 networks in 113 countries deploying EDGE)

Posted by adnhk1
Thanks to all who finds my posts in this thread helpful. Really hoped this can in some ways help fellow esato members to understand more about the differences between flash/dynamic memory and Active RAM memory. Symbian OS is a FULL MULTITASKING OS and its main selling point is for us to purchase and install tons of useful applications to make our daily lives more productive and fun. If there is not enough Active RAM for multiple applications to make use of simultaneously, then there is NO POINT spending so much $$$ purchasing a Symbian device.

Sincerely hoped Admins can make this thread sticky in order for others to easily find and read it. Thanks.

Posted by mcrosser
cool, but perhaps making a new thread would be better? this thread is about P990 vs N93 as title says. I would also like a RAM thread to be made sticky. cheers

Posted by adnhk1
Hi Admins, not sure if this is allowed, but can I start a new thread copying and pasting my posts from this thread? If it is ok, then can Admins please help to make that thread sticky? Thanks.

Posted by shug
About available RAM it seems a bit unclear how much active ram the N80 has this page from the same forum states that the RAM is 48mb with 25-30 left after boot.
http://forums.mobileburn.com/showthread.php?p=126417

Posted by steelsheen
Quote:

it is common that people are misleaded by manufacturers claims when comes to specs, especially those who do not know in depth about technology. Perhaps I should phrase it this way:

1. Think of N80's 50MB and SE's 80MB as your PC's Hard Disk Drive, those that commonly shows 40GB/60GB/80GB, etc etc, where you would install your Windows XP and all other applications, like anti virus, firewall software, anti spyware, Microsoft Office, Internet browsers, and most imortantly to me, GAMES!, etc.

2. Now, think of the ACTIVE RAM as your PC's DRAM, those that you see DDR/DDR2 512MB, 1GB blah blah blah... These are DIE DIE needed for Windows XP to boot properly, as well as ALL those applications that you "double click" on, to startup properly.

Now think of this, can your Windows XP boot without point no. 2 above? No you can't as the moment the DRAM is plugged out of the system, your PC will not even boot up past the initial POST (the initial black screen with some words for showing system checks etc). It does not matter if I have up to 1 terabyte (i.e., 1000 Gigabyte) of hard disk drive in my PC, cos as long as I do not have the DRAM inside my PC, the PC just will not boot properly.

So, now comes the amount of DRAM a PC should have. We all knew, and I assume normal consumers would also know, that THE MORE THE MERRIER, right? So, if I can afford 2GB of DRAM to stick into my PC, I would stick them into my PC. Same goes to mobile devices, the more the available Active RAM, the merrier. Active RAM is required for applications to launch and store it's data into. This is where the difference between PC and mobile devices comes into play. On a PC, if I only have very little RAM, Windows XP knows how to "cheat" applications by making use of the hard disk drive's available space. Do a search for pagefile.sys in your PC. This is the "cheat" RAM which is actually residing on your hard disk drive that applications can make use of if your RAM is not enough. However, for a mobile device, there is no such pagefile.sys residing on your available 50MB of intermal memory, nor is it being "cleverly" made available on your external memory (You mentioned 128MB comes with N80). Hence once the miserable 10MB of the N80 is used up (and yes, ALL APPLICATIONS NEEDS TO USE THIS RAM and they use it A LOT), "Out of memory" messages will pop up, as what was witnessed on the N80 JUST BY ZOOMING INTO A PICTURE...

I hate to say this, but NK is somewhat "deceiving" their customers, and knowing a lot of these customers are not tech savvy enough to understand the difference between "internal memory (PC's hard disk drive)" and "Active RAM (PC's DDR/DDR2 RAM), they are misleading a lot of customers... SE on their website clearly states the P990i (in fact, since P800 they are already stating clearly) comes with 64MB of RAM memory and 128MB Flash memory with up to 80MB for our applications to be installed. For a quick calculation, Symbian OS 9.1 and UIQ 3.0, plus those built-in apps that gets automatically started at boot time should take up about 20MB at boot time. This still leaves us with about 44MB of FREE ACTIVE RAM everytime the phone is booted, which is a whopping 34MB or more than 300% higher than N80...

Hope this helps.



this is a great post! very very helpful

my question is that where can we find information indicating a phone's Active RAM? i've spent a good deal of time hunting the net where i can get to see this spec and so far i cant find one. is it only indicated in the product manual? is it only called "Active RAM" or does this term go by other names? (such as "internal dynamic memory" and "shared memory" seems to be referring to the same thing: the phone's "hard drive")

any more light that you can shed on this matter would be most appreciated

Posted by Menageryl
SHARED MEMORY
' "Memory" used for storage on a handset is usually called "shared" memory - shared internal memory of course! <IMG SRC="/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
' Nokia has a habit of calling it "dynamic memory" or "shared dynamic memory" - a bad (IMNSHO) label other manafacturers may have adopted in kind.
' This is essentially disk space on which files are stored.

RAM
' Active-RAM should just be called "RAM" as it acts as and is used identically to RAM on other types of computers - PCs, servers, etc. But the mobile market (starting with MS' entrance into the PDA market, then twisted further with the advent of smartphones and converged devices) muddied the waters somewhat as vendors manipulated terms - I think either in order to hoodwink punters or in the belief their target market was intellectually challenged and unable to grasp certain technical aspects...
' SE calls it "RAM memory" - which is a little circular (Random Access Memory memory?) - but it is close enough I suppose. <IMG SRC="/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
' I'm not too sure what other manafacturers are currently (officially) using and how accurate or inaccurate those labels are - my own memory fails me right now... <G> But RAM is what it is!

FLASH MEMORY
' Another relevant memory type for handsets which one should at least understand (even though it's not usually a major buying concern really) is what most vendors call "flash memory." This is essentially PROM - Programmable Read Only Memory - it's where all of the absolutely essential data for handset operation resides - the boot loader; kernel; operating system; etc. It's also where networks and service providers load their annoying branding and so-on. It's read-only in all normal circumstances in order to ensure the stability of the handset (and the continuity of any branding - yech!), but can be "flashed" (hence the name) by special applications in order to upgrade these special programs.

' As for where one finds such information...
' RAM info on Nokia handsets is a difficult question... I personally am not aware of any "official" site or source which is certain to list this information. In fact for most handsets the info is missing even from the packaged documentation and manuals.
' SE make life a lot easier!!! All this information for all modern / current handsets can be found under the "phones" tab on the following site: http://www.sonyericsson.com/developer/

' And that's my contribution for now!
' ~Moi

_________________
~Menageryl
-Jack of All Trades, Master of Some!-

[ This Message was edited by: Menageryl on 2006-05-24 08:28 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Menageryl on 2006-05-24 08:32 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Menageryl on 2006-05-24 08:33 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Menageryl on 2006-05-24 08:37 ]

Posted by aquila2
Quote:

On 2006-05-17 15:40:04, adnhk1 wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-05-16 21:08:55, Waka wrote:
That's interesting about available memory. According to here:
http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=1551&idPhone1=1318
the Nokia has 50MB c/w the SE's 80MB - however the Nokia comes with a 128MB memory card c/w the P990's 64MB. I guess these phones don't have the equivalent of virtual memory?! ;-p

Unless the N93 has an equivalent to the Sonys excelent jog wheel and ezitap software, I'll be staying with the Pxxx series.

W.



Hi,

it is common that people are misleaded by manufacturers claims when comes to specs, especially those who do not know in depth about technology. Perhaps I should phrase it this way:

1. Think of N80's 50MB and SE's 80MB as your PC's Hard Disk Drive, those that commonly shows 40GB/60GB/80GB, etc etc, where you would install your Windows XP and all other applications, like anti virus, firewall software, anti spyware, Microsoft Office, Internet browsers, and most imortantly to me, GAMES!, etc.

2. Now, think of the ACTIVE RAM as your PC's DRAM, those that you see DDR/DDR2 512MB, 1GB blah blah blah... These are DIE DIE needed for Windows XP to boot properly, as well as ALL those applications that you "double click" on, to startup properly.

Now think of this, can your Windows XP boot without point no. 2 above? No you can't as the moment the DRAM is plugged out of the system, your PC will not even boot up past the initial POST (the initial black screen with some words for showing system checks etc). It does not matter if I have up to 1 terabyte (i.e., 1000 Gigabyte) of hard disk drive in my PC, cos as long as I do not have the DRAM inside my PC, the PC just will not boot properly.

So, now comes the amount of DRAM a PC should have. We all knew, and I assume normal consumers would also know, that THE MORE THE MERRIER, right? So, if I can afford 2GB of DRAM to stick into my PC, I would stick them into my PC. Same goes to mobile devices, the more the available Active RAM, the merrier. Active RAM is required for applications to launch and store it's data into. This is where the difference between PC and mobile devices comes into play. On a PC, if I only have very little RAM, Windows XP knows how to "cheat" applications by making use of the hard disk drive's available space. Do a search for pagefile.sys in your PC. This is the "cheat" RAM which is actually residing on your hard disk drive that applications can make use of if your RAM is not enough. However, for a mobile device, there is no such pagefile.sys residing on your available 50MB of intermal memory, nor is it being "cleverly" made available on your external memory (You mentioned 128MB comes with N80). Hence once the miserable 10MB of the N80 is used up (and yes, ALL APPLICATIONS NEEDS TO USE THIS RAM and they use it A LOT), "Out of memory" messages will pop up, as what was witnessed on the N80 JUST BY ZOOMING INTO A PICTURE...

I hate to say this, but NK is somewhat "deceiving" their customers, and knowing a lot of these customers are not tech savvy enough to understand the difference between "internal memory (PC's hard disk drive)" and "Active RAM (PC's DDR/DDR2 RAM), they are misleading a lot of customers... SE on their website clearly states the P990i (in fact, since P800 they are already stating clearly) comes with 64MB of RAM memory and 128MB Flash memory with up to 80MB for our applications to be installed. For a quick calculation, Symbian OS 9.1 and UIQ 3.0, plus those built-in apps that gets automatically started at boot time should take up about 20MB at boot time. This still leaves us with about 44MB of FREE ACTIVE RAM everytime the phone is booted, which is a whopping 34MB or more than 300% higher than N80...

Hope this helps.

Admins, can this be made sticky so that potential customers can read it prior to spending their hard earned $$$?



oh boy, you are completely wrong

nokia 6680 was the last symbian S60 phone with just 10MB of free RAM. even N70 has got over 30MB free ACTIVE RAM after the booting up procedure

just to make it clear I took the liberty to quote here someone from mobile review


Michal from my-symbian states 45MB (not by guessing, but by using a program that reads out the corresponding values from the HAL), and even the 3250 has 33MB...


btw. nokia N80 is selling now for 570 euros and you can find it even for less. the price of P990 was said to be around 750 euros.

Posted by SteamSHIFT
What about the Nokia E61 - any thoughts on this? Apart from touch screen and camera, it looks like it ticks all the boxes.

[ This Message was edited by: SteamSHIFT on 2006-05-25 10:03 ]

Posted by Menageryl
' Hmm... Well - I've been looking around after the question was asked... Turns out www.my-symbian.com lists specifications for as many Symbian handsets as they can manage and have pretty verbose listings - including RAM values - though some entries have this area empty as it's obvious they as-yet don't have the relevant information...

' aquila2: I'm not too confident about the numbers you gave... Unfortunately the site both you and I mentioned don't as-yet list most of the N-Range's RAM values barring the N80 which has 45MB total and 19MB free after bootup... Which makes me, as I said, a little hesitant to go with the figures you're just assuming are standard across a range!!!
' The E60, E61, and E70 are listed as having 48MB total with approx. 22MB free after boot... And these phones are running the race pretty much alongside their N-Range bretheren.
' As such I think we can still safely say (though admittably still conjecture - until we have definitive numbers for the rest of the N-Range) that the UIQ3 phones revealed to us thusfar are still streaks ahead in the RAM department.

' Sorry. Hehe. ;-D
' ~Moi

Posted by _LAU_
About the RAM, the Symbian OS discards the least used application running on RAM if the available RAM ends.

Although many applications don't behave properly when the OS requests them to close - usually they crash - the most recently *used* applications usually don't have memory issues.

Of course, the bigger the memory the better.

My P910 boots with 56 processes on RAM (results of Magic Launcher), 13 of them are applications (results of SMan)
These can easily increase after running other applications.
My P910 it's using 16.3MB of RAM (of 32MB)


Posted by Menageryl
' @_LAU_: Yep... Most of us are aware of how the OS manages the need for RAM... The argument(s) being made here though is that the more RAM one has built into (and available after boot) a device, the more complex the potential application, as well as granting one the ability to run more application simultaneously!
' BTW - can't say I've really experienced much \"crashing\" of applications when they're asked to shut down due to RAM constraints on my P900... The only application I've really had this with (not too infrequently) has been the Opera browser - and only when the page being browsed maxes out all available memory (RAM) on the entire device!!!

' @all: BTW, it seems like www.allaboutsymbian.com also has a number of devices (Nokia or otherwise) for which they keep specifications etc. online - and I see they have some data my-symbian doesn't have and vica-versa.
' So it really looks like it's a shot-in-the-dark sorta situation with regards finding solid, dependable information regarding RAM in Nokia models. SE make it so much easier by providing it themselves, no? <smiles>

' More info found:
' N70 has 58MB RAM total.
' N90 has 48MB RAM total.

' ~Moi

Posted by adnhk1
@ aquila2,

If you read my posts, you should understand that I am basing the N80's "operating memory" of 10MB via mobile review's owners feedback Here's a recap on page 2 of this thread: "...The N80, from mobile reivew's forum was found to be having only 10MB at boot time..."

Secondly, my posts are to highlight to esato members about what Nokia failed to clearly advises their customers, ie, the available active RAM (or what Michal calls it operating memory).

If Nokia has been honest to customers like SE when comes to active RAM, then there is no need for us to "guess" today and no need for me to type in such long winded posts.

Posted by Menageryl
' @adhnk1: Check out my replies to aquila2 and you'll see I managed to find \"solid\" info on a number of Blokia's re. RAM - including N80 (45MB total / 19MB free)...

' ~Moi

Posted by aquila2
I was not claiming that nokia S60 phones have more memory, but I was just saying that it is more then 10mb.

it is simply not true the 10MB you stated.

the amount of RAM on S60 varies from 20-30MB.

and yes it is 2-3 times less then emplyed on UIQ 3.0.

anyways, N93 and P990 should not be compared.

E61 or E70 is a directcompetition to P990, and in both cases P990 loses. not to mention, E61 is already available and costs around 300 euros less offering more ...

Posted by Symbiatico
Aquila wrote:

anyways, N93 and P990 should not be compared.

E61 or E70 is a direct competition to P990, and in both cases P990 loses.
------------------------------------------------------

I was just curious, how one can base an opinion on what makes a phone "loses" a competition, as you wrote.

I've had my P900 for 2 and a half years now and it recently gave up on me, screen failure I suppose. I resorted to a leftover Nokia 7610, Series 60, which I know quite well. Let me just say this: When you get used to the P-series and the jog dial, not to mention the touch screen and writing recognition, S60 would definitely be a lesson in patience. Multi-tapping to add numbers and appointments? How can anyone do this all day?

Opera Mini, my app of choice nowadays, is quite good on S60, but the problem is, again, the 4-way linear mode of navigation.

I sincerely hope my P900 can be fixed, cheap that is. But meanwhile I am slowly addapting to clicking my way through with the Nokia.

It's not the numbers or ticking the right boxes on a spec sheet. It's all about the jog-dial and touch screen, folks.

Have fun and take care of your P-series.

Posted by aquila2
well, did you try E61 ?

the ergonomics is _way_ better then P series.

I've been using various touch screen based devices since 1999 but I find the ergonomics of P-series the worst I've ever experienced.

the problem is exactly that you _must_ use at least two hands to operate the phone. horrible.

and on the old P-series, the jog dial was a 5way button, wheres in the P990 it is two way only! this could be a real mess ...

Posted by Menageryl
' Er... No... The jog-dial on the P990 is a 3-way... But I agree that going from a 5-way to a 3-way is already a mess! <G>

' However, at the same time you're conveniently skipping over the fact that we're dealing with an entirely new interface here!!! UIQ v.3 keeps all the good aspects and interface methodology of UIQ v.2.x whilst adding additional options - optimization for one-handed use for one...
' As such I don't think you can possibly compare the E-Series to the P990 as yet - not until one has had hand-on experience with both (in final release versions!!!)!

' I expect, however, that due to the pure number of interfacing options made available to one on the P990 that this will put down the E-Series - at least from the perspective of this argument re. ergonomics!

' Oh! I've been a PDA / mobile-device user since 1995 and have experienced a really, really large subset of different devices and device-types, ergonomics, etc. and I still find that the P-Series devices are among the best all-round devices I've ever had the pleasure to use.
' So I suppose what this really says is \"different strokes for different folks\" - everyone is going to have different wants, needs and requirements and different views on what's good, great, bad, etc.
' <Shrugs>

' ~Moi


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