Posted by axxxr
MP's have voted by a huge margin to ban smoking in enclosed public spaces in England from 2007.so do you think this is generally a good move or do you think it will be affecting your libertys?
I'm a smoker and i think this generally a good idea,but i am not in favour of complete ban,it would be better i think to make well ventilated smoking area's inside public places instead.
Posted by Xugaa
smoking is a choice that people make, even if it does damage your health, and they enjoy it, and with all the money that countries and businesses make from the tobacco industry i don't think a complete ban will ever go through. although i agree that it should be banned in most if not all enclosed public places simply because if a smoker wants to damage their own health, then thats fine, but its not right or fair to damage other non-smokers.
agree?
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"The only reliable thing about the future is uncertainty" [ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2006-02-15 00:46 ]
Posted by axxxr
Yes i do agree with you on that,like i said im not against the ban,i feel that why should non-smokers affect their health by breathing in smoke from people around them.But at the same time equaly smokers rights should be respected aswell,smoking areas would work best in this case.
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
some interesting points there, I personally don't smoke and it doesnt bother me if other people do unless they are blowing it in your face, or your stuck in a really smokey room.
I think a partial ban is a good idea though according to lots of stdiess passive smoking is achaully worse the lighting one up yourself, and I don't think that the majority of the population should be made to suffer from smokers, butI don't think a complete ban will ever happen, the first reason is because it will effect peoples liberties, the second it will crsuh a large industry in the uk, but the main one being the governmet will lose lots of tax pennies they put on ciggerettes etc.
I do think having seperate and VERY well ventelated rooms would work, but it could lead to segregation between the population and divide us as a whole if every time you need a fag you have to go into another room.
if you think of it from a 16year old point of view, all the "cool kids" smoke but you don't want to, yet still want to hang around with them, your going to go into that room and even though its a well ventelated room its still going to stink and will still be easy to chain smoke which may make them pick the habbit up, and it works like a viscious circle...
i so ired so I hope most of fthat made sense
Posted by Xugaa
yea sure
although they would have to think carefully about how they went about smoking areas, since the ones you have at the moment, which are like right next to the non-smokers o_O how that works i don't know?, will not do... in my opinion.
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
thats ture, especially in reasturants, the amout of time a romatic meal has been reuined by a load of smoke just blowing over you arrrr - thats one of the times smokers can really piss me off
Posted by amnesia
I think it's good.
More countries should follow suit, I'm glad the UK is starting to follow.
Posted by axxxr
and whats ruins my night out is when i end up in non-smoking bar or restaurant...thats the way i see it,how can anyone relax without a cigarette?..its all so clinical if you know what i mean.
Humans have been smoking for 1000's of years now in form or another,its who we are...even though i know it is bad for your health and all,i believe it affects our body's according to a person,some have a higher or lesser tolerance to the affects of smoking...put at this way,i have seen some smokers live longer than non-smokers.
Posted by coo1k3n
'MP's have voted by a huge margin to ban smoking in enclosed public spaces in England from 2007'- Great, gives us just one more whole year for us non-smokers to develop cancer!!!
lol.
I think smoking should be completely banned in public spaces. I just came back from work (at my parents restaurant) and I came back stinking of smoke. I had to wash my hair and all my clothes to get the smell out. Not just me but all the other workers (who don't smoke) have to breathe it in constantly (though many of the workers actually smoke!). Your eyes sting after a few hours, you become thirsty and your throat gets sore and dry.
You could argue that my parents should do more and put regulations in place for smoking, my dad tells customers they have to smoke at the bar and can only smoke at their tables if others around them are smoking too. But I work mostly behind the bar!!! (good on ya dad for caring about your employees- more importantly your son!). Also other customers still have to smell the smoke- because of course the smoke travels! It would be easier to just ban it altogether in these places to protect workers in these environments 24/7 and customers.
Of course it doesn't just annoy me at the restaurant but in all public spaces. It would just be more pleasant if it was banned in public spaces. I have no problems with people smoking outside though.
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[ This Message was edited by: coo1k3n on 2006-02-15 01:20 ]
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
yes lots of smokers can live longer then non smokers, I knew a non smoker, he was hit by a car and died when he was 12, alot of smokers will last longer then that, but one thing has to be said you are addicted to a harmfull drug which has been directly linked to many diseases and cancer (but then again what hasent lol).
the problem is alot of people know that the raw mateials used in tobacoo products are harmfull to themselves and their family, and alot of people don't want to be exposed to this as they fear it could effect their heath.
You could go to a smoking bar, or even better set up one of those mini bars in your office etc lol
Posted by axxxr
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I have personally known someone who was a chain smoker and lived all the way upto the ripe old age of 90,which is way above the mortality rate in the world today...and i also personaly had a friend who never smoked a cigeratte in his life,worked out daily..ate healthy food,yet one day he was out jogging in the morning as routine,and suddenly collapsed and died on the spot...i mean that i was a major shock to m,now that way is see it is when your time comes it comes...smoking or not smokingn.i feel its better to live your life how you choose.
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of course and i completely agree with that....there is no need for people to be breathing in other peoples second hand smoke,if i was a non-smoker i would'nt want to either...but why should smokers be penalised for this,should be equal rights for both!
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I do go to smoking bars and restaurants as much i possibly can,but somtimes its unavoidable due to other friends invitations ect...cant have mini bar at the office unfortunately.
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
some very valid points there. In a way its pointless to argue the effects on smoking as you said it depends on the perosn, there have been some (rare) cases where people smoke 20 a day and have lived to over 80 I believe.
I think regarding the whole smoking ban it should be introduced in public places, but not a complete ban
and lastly it really is a shame you can't have a mini bar in the office, id love one mself be great. Also you mentioned being agrivated that you can't smoke at non smoking bars, but have you ever though or tired giving up? (im not saying you should or anything as I think its your choice but mearly out of curiosity as you seem to be quite reliant on tobaco)
Posted by xdavex
Its an amazing thing. I hate going out and coming home stinking of cigarettes. I despise the smell of it!
Posted by axxxr
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Yes i have kind of tried giving up....but i can't imagine have a pint without a cigarette,its just unimaginable,would'nt be the same...yes i suppose you could say im reliant on tobbaco....maybe one day someone may invent something to make one stop in one day!...until then i want
stick a windproof lighter in the next phone!
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
hmmm not a bad idea, though there will be a new bread of arsonists running round with se phones lol
Posted by Miss UK
im not a smoker never touched any of that in my life, I think its a filthy habit tbh and I hope they also make smoking banned at workplaces, public transport etc
Posted by max_wedge
we already have such laws here in australia.
Personally while I think it's a good thing, what's not good is that now every smoker hangs out outside when smoking, meaning that passerbys get the smoke in their face and not the smokers workmates
I ride around the city a lot and never used to have to ride through clouds of smoke. Since this legislation has passed, I've been subjected to more smoke while riding than in all the years previous!
After the legislation was passed, they had to modify the legislation to make it illegal for smokers to stand near building entrances while having their smoko. I came out of the maternity ward one day and had to walk through a thick cloud of smoke to get outside. I mean that's just stupid. I got nothing against smokers, but wouldn't it be common sense not to stand near a hospital entrance smoking?
I think the bans are about time, because many smokers are completely unaware of how uncomfortable (let alone carcinogenic) cigarette smoke is to non-smokers. Infact I think it should go further and make all public thoroughfares smoke free. If the majority of smokers hasd an ounce of consideration these laws would have never been necessary.
Posted by p900 lover
@miss uk i think we have a ban on smoking on public transport already dont we? lol
dunno about this ban, im a smoker but i think the only time it would really hit me is when im out drinking and clubin cos i recently went 2 NY and they have a ban in all public areas but i was fine.
This ban in the UK is it all public areas or what?
Posted by JK
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Cant you smoke in the street??
Posted by masseur
I am very happy about this and it been too long coming.
Virtually anything else that a person does in public that is potentially dangerous or harmful for others around them comes with some sort of legislation to protect the general public.
I'm not sure that private clubs should be included but of couse there are also health and safety issues to consider for workers.
Providing partial bans or fixed areas for smokers is not an answer as has been proved time and time again where smokers, or smoke, spills over into non smoking areas and also makes it harder to enforce.
At the end of the day I believe it will only be the current, and possibly next generation who will really be affected by this as subsequent generations will consider this the norm and indeed I believe less kids will start to smoke as it becomes more taboo... and that can only be a good thing IMHO!
Posted by axxxr
Im sorry masseur but i don't agree with you their mate,its been proven that banning things just makes the problem worse,i for one wont stop smoking just because their is a ban in certain places,sure i won;t be smoking their but i doubt that will put me off...of course this is good for people who don't light up,but what about my rights?..don't they matter?..Im not saying that we should be allowed to smoke in public just maybe smoking zones that are well ventilated as not affect anyone esle!...for me this will basically mean i will have to stay indoors for much longer and smoke more before i go out or will be smoking outside the venues i'll be attending.
Posted by Sammy_boy
Not sure what I make of this, I am a smoker, smoke about 6-8 a day usually so not a heavy one, but do enjoy a smoke after a meal out, or at the pub. Guess I'll just have to get cold! I can see there been a lot of smokers huddling outside of pubs and clubs after this year!
Posted by slattery69
i wouldnt worry to much about it , give it 6 months and most pubs will be letting you smoke in them just to make money.
in ireland they lost 1/3 of revenue in the first 6 months. it turned round when landlords started turning a blind eye to smoking in the pub.
a few friends were in dublin just before xmas and every pub they went in people were smoking.
its going to be very hard to enforce most publicians in this country are already living on well below min wage
Posted by batesie
Absolutly terrible. a huge human rights infringement.
whats next? banning drinking in pubs? the cause of many deaths, the cause of a lot of antisocial behavior?
madness. i feel i've lost another freedom.
and the members clubs/pubs/night clubs will also suffer next year.
this is the time for pubs to open up there roof tops or gardens with patio heaters/umbrellas. they will still do alright i guess.
Posted by axxxr
Absolutely agree with ya mate!
Posted by Xugaa
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lol
Posted by batesie
funny thing is, i thought we were moving towards a continental style of behaviour with the relaxed drinking hours....
Posted by axxxr
seems like its ok to die of Alcohol poisoning..but not smoking!
longer drinking hours but no smoking...how did they work that one out?
Posted by Xugaa
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after this ban is in place, any person/s found smoking in a public place, bar, restaurant, pub etc. the staff/owner 'must' kick them out and if they reffuse, call the police. if caught by police they will most probably be fined. if the public place, bar, pub, restaurant etc does not get them out, they will be in trouble themselves, and face heavy fines.
@batesie - thats just igronant.
@axxxr - because in the long term its more serious and dangerous than alcohol, in the short term its more uncomfortable for others than alcohol. alcohol will not hurt others around you as long as you control how much you have, which is yours and the sellers responsability.
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"The only reliable thing about the future is uncertainty" [ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2006-02-15 10:07 ]
Posted by JK
Anyone ever got a fine?
I smoke anywhere I think is not really offensive to the public, even if its a non smoking area... all they say is please put out your ciggy, i finish it and walk away... no fines... since our ban in 2000 only one guys recieved a fine...
Posted by slattery69
thats what the law states but whos going to enforce it if the landlord choses to ignore it to make a living.
there are 70000 liceinsed pubs and clubs in the uk (that doesnt includ restaurants) the police claim they cant deal with current crime with there numbers so how on earth are they going to police 70000 outlets.
for me the eaiset answer would have been ban it in food establishment and for pubs and clubs let them deciede.
if they go non smoking they can stand and fall by there trade same for those that chose to be smoking outlets.
as long as staff and customer know they can chose, and if as a result all bars become non smoking then fair enough thats what people have choosen
[ This Message was edited by: slattery69 on 2006-02-15 10:09 ]
Posted by axxxr
This reminds of that line from Basic Instinct when sharon stone is being questioned by the police and she lights up and the officer says to her \"This is a no smoking building\"and sharon stone replies,\"What you gona do charge me with smoking\"? ....just thought i'd mention it!
Posted by JK
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U seem to remeber that scene pretty well! Were u trying to pause it at the "right" place?
Posted by batesie
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what is? or is there nothing you can disagree with?
Posted by slattery69
its classic legislation from people who havent ever run a pub or use them regularly.
i wonder if the 13 bars in the house of commons will be all non smoking?
Posted by Xugaa
because even though i believe that you should be able to smoke if you want to, you have to take the responsability and remember always that your using something that could harm another and potentially kill another.
Posted by slattery69
So do cars and drink but i dont see them been banned. I believe it should be the landlords and the public who chose. If a pub wants to be none smoking thats fine and people can chose to use it. If its smoking you can chose to use it. I see no reason why the public cant make there own chose in the matter
Posted by batesie
and by the way. All Royal palaces in the UK are exempt from this ban. which includes the house of commons bar!
FCCKING REDICULOUS!
Posted by Xugaa
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the people did choose, and most, by a lot, said they wanted a ban.
""and by the way. All Royal palaces in the UK are exempt from this ban. which includes the house of commons bar!
FCCKING REDICULOUS!""
lol
so very true
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"The only reliable thing about the future is uncertainty" [ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2006-02-15 10:46 ]
Posted by batesie
for people that dont agree with an all out ban. or for smokers, go here...
http://www.forestonline.org/output/Page1.asp
http://www.forestonline.org/files/pdf/FORESTEuropean(1).pdf
Posted by methylated_spirit
Is it going to be banned in the workplace too, like it is here in Scotland? Haven't heard anything about that one.
As a non-snoker, i have to say that i kind of expect to be in smokey environments when i'm out on the town, which is a sign that something needs to be done.
I find the mentality of a lot of smokers over this issue mind-boggling. They are trying to qualify their habit by saying "ohhh, your taxes will go through the roof!" People will stop buying cigarettes, and your taxes will rise!" Then when asked "so does that mean you are going to stop smoking then" the invariable answer is "not me, chum!" So what is their point? If they actually stopped smoking through this, taxes wouldnt rise by as huge a margin as has been suggested. Think about the NHS and how much of my non-smoker money goes into treating people who intentionally ruin their bodies. If, say, 25% of those people stopped smoking due to the ban, it would enable the NHS to use my money to help people who actually deserve it, to people who are sitting on waiting lists for years through no fault of their own. I begrudge having to sweep up everyone elses cigarette butts when the yard at work is in a mess. Its never a smoker who does it, i am one of only 4 non-smokers at work, and its always left to us to clear up after the smokers.
I'm happy to sit and sup my pint in a pub with no cigarette smoke. I'm happy to sit in a pub full of smokers, too - for a little while. But the ban is undoubtedly a very good thing - anything that can be done to help people who choose not to smoke can only be a good thing, people that care enough about their health to do something about it.
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[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2006-02-15 10:59 ]
Posted by Xugaa
[ This Message was edited by: Xugaa on 2006-02-15 11:13 ]
Posted by slattery69
I must have been doing something wrong when i smoked as paid income tax and tax on every packet of fags i bought. Depending on what figures you beleive smokers are supposed to more than pay for any treatment they recieve through the n h s with plenty left over for non smokers
Posted by batesie
its a fact that the tax on tobbacco in the UK is WAY more than the NHS exenditure on smoking related illnesses.
Posted by JK
How much is a pack of 20's there?
Posted by batesie
Premium Brand: £4.90
Cheap brand £4.05
Posted by JK
Daaamn!!!
We pay £1.5 premium!!
Posted by methylated_spirit
Its ok to shred your lungs to bits, you're paying good money for the privelidge, but why should I be forced to? The public places ban is here to help the non-smokers, not necessarily to hinder the smokers. Smokers have a choice where to smoke. If a non-smoker is forced to stand beside a smoker, he has no choice.
Posted by JK
Yip Meths is right...
Although a survey done 5 years after our ban started showed a 38% drop with smokers...
Under 18s smokers dropped by 85%!!!
Posted by joebmc
If all these non-smokers are so concerned about there health, why are they damaging there liver with all the alcohol? (I’d imagine most who visits pubs have an alcoholic drink).
I am against the total ban on smoking, as an ex smoker (almost a year now
) I know how nice it was to have a pint and a fag!