Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
http://www.mk-magazine.com/news/archives/001567.php
my mate found that online, and sent it to me, and im absolutly Livid, what the hell gives the church to sterotype one kind of person, then spreat these sterotypes onto just about anyother culture or person. Out of their so called 'goth giveaways' I am could fit into many of the ones I listed below
-Frequently wears black clothing. - i wear what I like
-Wears band and/or rock t-shirts. - o no I wear a cand endorced shit I will die
-Listens to gothic or any other anti-social genres of music. (Marilyn Manson
claims to be the anti-Christ, and publicly speaks against the Lord. Please
discard any such albums IMMEDIATELY.) - ton of shit
-Associates with other people that
dress, act or speak eccentrically. some people may have speach problems they must be goths now
-Shows a declining interest in wholesome activities, such as: the Bible,
prayer, church or sports. - i say f**k all that
-Shows an increasing interest in death, vampires, magic, the occult,
witchcraft or anything else that involves Satan. - do you think this counts for harry potter?
-Takes drugs. paracetomol?
-Drinks alcohol. - who hasnt
-Is suicidal and/or depressed. every one will someitmes lifes way init
-Complains of boredom. - im bored right now
-Sleeps too excessively or too little. - i like my sleep
-Is excessively awake during the night. - im a insomniac to
-Demands an unusual amount of privacy. - when i work ppl can piss off
-Spends large amounts of time alone. ha ha loner
-Requests time alone and quietness. (This is so that your chid may speak to
evil sprits through meditation.) yeh... im in my room right now on esato i must be flirting with the devil or some shite
-Insists on spending time with friends
while unaccompanied by an adult. - how many kids do this?
-Disregards authority figures; teachers, priests, nuns and elders are but a
few examples of this. - who doesnt occasionally?
-Misbehaves at school. again we all do it
-Misbehaves at home. same
-Eats excessively or too little - i like food but am I a goth?
-Eats goth-related foods. Count Dracula cereal is an example of this. - lol I want some of that shit
-Plays videos games that contains violence or role-playing nature. - halo gta etc
-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the computer. - i liek being on the net talking to ppl on msn etc
-Dances to music in a provocative or sexual manner. - clubbin
-Expresses an interest in sex. - im 17 I have for the last 5 years
-Is homosexual and/or bisexual. - talk about discrination against gays
-Pursues dangerous cult religions. Such include: Satanism, Scientology,
Philosophy, Paganism, Wicca, Hinduism and Buddhism. - see whay go against some of the more poular religionas
Now out of all those I selected how many of them can you say you fit into? I got all those myself, I dont see how the church can be so critical of other ppl and cultures, we are all unique and I dont see why the f**k they can say that about normal people like us.
I personally think the church should redo its thoguht on other people whilst looking closly at itsself and modernise so its achually in the real world
and to prove im not a goth ....
taken a while ago
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[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2005-12-14 10:25 ]
[ This Message was edited by: lukebonathan on 2005-12-14 14:53 ]
Posted by batesie
i wouldnt take it personally. religion has bigger prroblems that that....
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
I do though, don't know why, im not vern religious, it just gets to me how can they say a budha is goth? its a total joke, I wonder if I should write to the vatagan and complain
Posted by WelshTom
probably just one over anxiouis parent who thinks that they are doing good! everyone is entitled to their views including the author of that artical. if you disagree then ignor it or contact the author and enter into a constructive debate voicing your concerns with their artical and your point of view.
Posted by fatreg
woooohooo im a goth
hmmm ok doke,
fatreg
Posted by batesie
it seems that the Church of Saint Mary have taken it to far though...
Posted by SCORPIONKING1982
I do think that this is a joke, if you look at their supposed source for the artical there is no mention of this at all.
some of the points in the artical are so stupid, even for the church, that it cant be real!
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
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lol id have to be a completly differnt person for them to read my letter, as im apprently a goth, as I like sex to much or something, or maybe im a budah
Posted by Kryptik
Don't bother yourself too much over it, mate. Quite a few of those points apply to me, and i'm a grown man who's not a goth. Yes, i wear black, i misbehave at school (i teach Science and English), i have tattoos and piercings, blah blah blah... And my church accepts me as i am, so don't allow those relics to get to ya. Now, will all those who self-gratify themselves plz stand up? 

[ This Message was edited by: Kryptik on 2005-12-13 23:41 ]
Posted by amnesia
it's just basically the Church's opinion of who they obviously feel is not suited to their religion.
You said it yourself "f*** all that" so it means you don't care what they have to say, when the Church would argue that you don't care, so you are not a true believer in the first place.
(just trying to help you see their side)
Posted by leeboy13
this is typical of the church.... im a beliver in christ and all but they go way too way - my understanding of religion is that we must adapt it to nowadays... and to say all that stuff in that artical is basically saying we need to live like we did say 100 years ago - complete crap! its 2005 and we should live like its 2005.... people like independancy etc... people like black.... people like music... the church should stop judging and be more excepting then they might actually get people interested in religion again..... just my opinion - they seem to be shooting themselves in their own foot but saying rubbish like this....
Posted by icewinds
AAAARRGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
iiiimmmmmmmmm ggggggooooiinnnnnnnggggggggg tttttooooooo hhhhhhhheeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i have dated a real goth, and as far as i am concerned, they are more tru and real people than the author of that aritcle.
i agree, that we all have our own opions but when that opinion ius in direct threat with a human beings belief and way of life and a direct and supposed accurate attack then i dont like....
so i dont like dem, i a born again christian proud of it too, but i dont go to church, i like the fruits that God has provided and i think Metallica rocks!
oh well, whereever i end up, i will make my own party!!!
Posted by amnesia
put it simple.
You are a Christian, the church is 'in charge' of Christianity. Therefor you must follow the ways of the church. Otherwise you are a form of Christianity if you dont want to follow the church. Call yourselves, Relaxo-Christians.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2005-12-14 10:45 ]
Posted by icewinds
sorry Amnesia, i tend to disagree, the church is not "in charge" of christianity. God is, as long as you acknoledge his presence and that doesnt meant that you have go and do things.
God is in ones heart and thought, i dont mean christians or buddha or any others...
I just mean beailve in what you want and i think thats should be alright...
We should guide our own lives and destiniy, not in accordance to a church or some other brick made structure...
Posted by leeboy13
icewinds - i agree mate!
the church is so not 'in charge' of us - lol!!!!!
Posted by haynesycop
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100% agree and very well said.
Posted by icewinds
the thought of being controlled for me is scary and so many time i have always been dragged by my rentals to church.
I only relaise that just by simply accepting others view and treating them as individuals and not comparing them, will be the best way to thank your God.
Religion is mind body and soul, not paper, rock t-shirts or scissors, let alone what one guys tries to invoke the world to think...
Posted by vanquish
This is NOT the Church. I am a Christian and most of that is totally untrue. Dont brand Christianity!
Posted by icewinds
@vanquish
please explain, were you refering to my post?
Posted by joebmc
I agree with vanquish, this is not the churchs view but an old fashioned silly fool's view.
Posted by methylated_spirit
You have to realize that that church in particular teaches a very staid, safe, politically correct message. Anythin that they deem out of the ordinary, or that differs from their way of life, obviously is going to upset them. Thats why they go to church, to "protect" themselves from other ways of life. Its sad but true, the church is not the welcoming, open minded place it should be, it has turned into a little clique of people who don't even realize that they are bigoted, narrow minded, and ignorant*
*Maybe a gross generalisation, but, due to the article, justified i think.
Posted by joebmc
I think that depends on the church you visit. Not all churchs are that unwelcoming.
Posted by icewinds
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well said, like the word clique.... but i do not go against any one that goes to church, i feel that if they want to go and learn more they have the right.
It is only when they beleive what the guy in the front says too much and starts becoming similar to a cult. Where no one challenges anymore, they rather just nodd their heads and say "***" the end..
I have always challenged what people say, even though i might agree or dissagree with them, but an open coversation teaches alot more to those that are willing to listen than a closed one, IMHO...
Posted by joebmc
What’s the difference between a cult and a religion?
Posted by max_wedge
nothing in my view.
Some cults are open minded and some are bigotted, just like some churches. A cult is just a religion that some other religion doesn't like...
Posted by icewinds
@joebmc
thats a good question...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
CULT:
In religion and sociology, a cult is a cohesive group of people (often a relatively small and new religious movement) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture or society considers to be far outside the mainstream. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or because of its idiosyncratic practices.
In common usage, "cult" has a negative connotation, and is generally applied to a group by its opponents, for a variety of possible reasons.
RELIGION:
Sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system—is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine; and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions and rituals associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken many forms in various cultures and individuals. Occasionally, the word "religion" is used to designate what should be more properly described as "organized religion" – that is, an organization of people supporting the exercise of some religion, often taking the form of a legal entity (see religion-supporting organization). There are many different religions in the world today.
--------------------------------------------
As you can see not much! Cult is a religion that entertain "Goths" supposed bad people of this world, but i feel that there really should not be a barrier between these two as the worship of one persons God could be seen as the practise of a Cult.
Lookup occult in wikipedia.com... Sums up very nicely that it is simply the study of a deeper spiritual reality that cannot be understood using pure reason or material science. This is occult, so by this definition can we assume that religion is an Occult? Therefore Cult from the meaning above is worship of unkown and Religion as well from the defintions is also worhips of know that these are in fact the same. Occult?
I do not intend to harm any ones ideas and beleifs in the writing of thes and if i have a do apologise profusely. I beleive in all...
Posted by Rocky B.
That is the biggest pile of *bleep* I have read in a long time. It reads like it was written by puritans. In fact, due to the fact it has 'Was Salam right' on the top of it, it probably was. If this is some kind of joke, it really isn't a good one.
I must admit though, the chick looked pretty hot
Posted by kk.226
I'm a Hindu, therefore i'm a goth o_0...
Posted by joebmc
So as cults and religions are pretty much the same thing the author looks like its saying anyone who’s not Christian is bad. This is not how Christians are.
So I would strongly recommend anyone reading this crap to just ignore it.
Posted by vanquish
Yes.
Don't anyone dare call Christianity bad, because it's just a biased opinion.
Christians, after all, are some of the kindest people i have met
they have, in the past, initiated some of the most amazing charities, hospitals etc. etc.
Im not with the COE, im not a catholic, methodist or anything. Im someone that has a belief.
Do you think ive never been mortal off my head?
Posted by amnesia
"Don't anyone dare call Christianity bad, because it's just a biased opinion. "
You just said it yourself, it's an opinion, if somebody does call it that, you can't force them not to, just show them your own understanding.
"Christians, after all, are some of the kindest people i have met "
Almost all religions promote kindness and being good, it's the people that are kind and the religion only helps promote it. At the end of the day it's about the individual and the way they act, not the religion. If someone did something bad and was a Christian, you would say that there is no relation.
"they have, in the past, initiated some of the most amazing charities, hospitals etc. etc. "
So have people other religions.
At the end of the day, you follow what you believe in, and hopefully what you believe in promotes good in people.
If one church acts in a way that you dont like, you can voice your opinion, but the best course is to simply disassociate yourself with that church. Simple as.
Posted by m100
Theres all kinds of nonsense on the web,why complain about this?
Posted by gelfen
this entire thread seems like a gross overreaction to a conservative fundie slanted article designed specifically to elicit this response. the views expressed in that article certainly do not coincide with mainstream christianity.
if you ask me that whole webstite seems a bit out there.
Posted by icewinds
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@gelfen.... what exaclty is "mainstream chistianity"? is this the sheep following the sheep version...?
I did not mean to offend anyone....
I am merely stating that religion should not be material or something you can do, but more of a belief system...
Hope i dont offend anyone....
Posted by scotsboyuk
@icewinds
I think gelfen means the sort of Christianity that doesn't consider a breakfast cereal to be evil e.g. normal people who believe in God and who aren't prone to extreme religious views.
Posted by icewinds
shew!!
thanks...
Posted by methylated_spirit
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Basically, a cult is a small group, with very unusual views, for example Jimmy Jones' group was a cult.
It really annoys me when people call, say, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses cults - whoever hear of a cult of 7 million members worldwide? They are organized, bona fide religions, with defined policies and beliefs, not some 2-bit Utah pentacle-dancing suicidal loons.
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Yeah, a very good point, but its the church in the article that i think we're all talking about, and sadly, this church is typical of more than a few religious organisations around the world.
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[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2005-12-15 12:48 ]
Posted by methylated_spirit
Also, does anyone else find the picture in the article completely at odds with what they are trying to say? Strange choice, if you ask me.
Hot though, eh? Dammit, i would!
Posted by joebmc
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But surely if the Utah pentacle-dancing suicidal loons had a member base of 50 million then that would be classed as a religion?
And when the Mormons or Jehovahs first started up they would of been seen as a cult.
The picture is very hot too, why have too leatherd up chicks? should of had to drench coated chaps with makeup on intstead.
Posted by methylated_spirit
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Well, yeah, but they are cults because they dont have 50 million members, is what i'm trying to say.
Also, look at the beliefs. A religion bases its teachings on belief in God, on spiritual matters. Look at that cult who committed mass suicide in the belief that an alien spacecraft hiding behind the Hale Bopp comet would take their souls away to live on another planet...even if they had 50 million members, would they be a religion? or a cult? Nothing theological in their belief, no God, nothing spiritual. I would say that they would be a cult no matter how many people were involved.
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[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2005-12-15 13:31 ]
Posted by SsTiTcH
Shame... That in the 21st Century some people are still so narrowminded and bigoted .. But not surprising. Just wonder if humanity will ever outgrow the ignorance ... No offense to those who have faith but given the track record of Christianity ie the Crusades., the Inquisition., the Salem Witch Trials ... Etc .. Ill pass as I prefer to live free and learn and grow as a Human.
Posted by Gigs
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Thankyou scotty, that absolutely made my day
Posted by solidsingh
hmm i think we should listen to amnesia - hes a very wise person IMHO
Posted by brownlad007
i think christianity is the best thing since cheesecake
Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
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ha ha , I love cheese cake, however I dont really believe or understand religion, I see it more as a set of rules used to control us in the past when laws were not impelemeted, as if ou look at the 10 comandments they represent quite a few of our laws today, but more generalised. I also see religion as more of a comfort as lots of people need something they feel solid to turn to in the event of disaster, or just simple mistakes.
However saying this I dont think religion is bad, I think it can be good as lots of religions will use their social connections to try to make the world better, I do think it is wrong to force religion upon people and take up religion extremism.
also the "goths" in that pic are hot lol
Posted by gelfen
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oh i dunno....if it was Satan's Crunchy Oats(TM) i might be able to sympathise. however, that is exactly what i meant.
btw - the question of cult vs. religion is not just one of definitions, but the extent of public acceptance and official recognition.
Posted by *Jojo*
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Posted by max_wedge
JN, The Davinci code is what I need to flash my phone!!! (actually should be a good movie)
Cult's/Religion who cares. A person's belief is their belief even if they are the only one to hold it, it still ought to be respected, as long as it isn't being rammed down someone's throat.
Posted by Bambino
i am atheist
Posted by SCORPIONKING1982
EVERYONE CALM THE F**K DOWN THIS ISNT REAL!!!!
http://stnate.blogspot.com/2005/02/goths-lies-and-catholics.html
Visit there to find out the truth.